From Good to Bad on road signs

[roadman65]

There are a lot of places around where we have seen good road signs that are often replaced by bad road signs or even construction projects that have permanently removed existing signs that were once helpful.  Whatever and wherever the case I was interested in hearing places around other users local regions that have had that.

In my area I would have to say the new I-4 ramp signs along South Street in Downtown Orlando went from decent to not so decent.  It originally had small guides that used control points for both EB and WB ramps to I-4.  Since the South Street interchange on I-4 was reconfigured a few years ago, those were replaced with stand alone shields.  I do not know why they would downgrade signs like this as I am sure the project managing engineer would have some sort of common sense when he surveyed the area ahead of time.

Then in New Jersey we have the US 1 and US 9 split interchange that before the interchange was redone had a mileage sign right after US 9 splits from US 1 stating mileage to points like Freehold, Lakewood, and Cape May.  Since NJDOT reopened the interchange the sign was not put back nor replaced.  It probably was New Jersey's only sign with a mileage destination of more than 100 miles as Cape May is about 130 miles from where it leaves the US 1-9 duplex to the Cape May Ferry Docks.

Any more that anybody would like to share?

[hbelkins]

Anywhere that a traditional pull-through has been replaced by an upward-pointing OAPL sign.

[NE2]

Anywhere a parkway sign has had a Repub-a-dub-dub added to it.

[hbelkins]

Example:

Before



After



Also:

Before



After



(Although it could be argued that replacing a 24x30 sign with a 24x24 sign is OK.)

Anywhere a parkway sign has had a Repub-a-dub-dub added to it.

That would be only the Daniel Boone/Hal Rogers and Cumberland/Louie B. Nunn. All the other parkways carry the names of Democrats.

[hotdogPi]

This looks like it's more accurate: one arrow per lane and an obvious exit only. This looks like it was changed so people could understand it better.

[Big John]

This looks like it's more accurate: one arrow per lane and an obvious exit only. This looks like it was changed so people could understand it better.

The road was widened here and the new sign reflects current conditions.

[1995hoo]

The new-style APL signs take some getting used to, but I think there are situations where they're definitely an improvement. Option lanes are one thing they illustrate more clearly than the old style. VDOT just posted several new APL signs on southbound I-395 in the Springfield Interchange. The old signs were crammed-in and, if you didn't already know the area, they were hard to follow and understand. The new ones give a cleaner look, especially the newest one that has five arrows.

In most situations I don't see what was wrong with the downward-pointing arrows, mind you. Arrows pointing to a particular lane have been standard for at least 40 years (I cite that number since I'm 40) and people know what they mean. I don't see an advantage to the upward-pointing arrows unless there's a particular aspect of a particular area that would make the downward-pointing arrows ambiguous–such as option lanes. (But I don't understand why a diagrammatic sign that shows the lane configuration is such a problem, unless the idea is that the driver unfamiliar with the road won't be able to translate his location on the road into his position on the diagram.)

[kurumi]

Connecticut's installation of "Phase III" signs (small white-on-green state and US route markers, replacing larger black-on-white) was a statewide decline in quality. Recent signing revision projects, especially on I-95, have started to undo the damage.

(Phase I through IV are terms shadyjay devised. See also: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8352.0)

[SignBridge]

I still say there is too much wasted space on these APL signs. On the German Autobahn, they have similar signs, but in some cases the arrows are placed next to and between the legends and short arrows (like our Type-B) are used under the legend.

[PHLBOS]

No pics of them, and I commented on an another thread; some recent BGS replacements along the NYS Thruway (I-87/287) near the Palisades Interstate Parkway not only feature overuse of the Clearview font but the lettering appears as non-reflectorized light grey rather than reflectorized white.  As a result, these are very hard to read at night; hence nullifying any advantages that the Clearview font supposedly offers IMHO.

Adding insult to injury, the previous 20-25 year-old BGS' were in pristine condition and did not need to be replaced (unless the old BGS' were either damaged in an accident or vandalized).  Fortunately, not all the BGS' at this interchange were replaced as of yet (I drove by there 2 nights ago); just the approach BGS'.

Another to add: DelDOT's overall BGS replacements have gone from first to worst in many instances.  Their oversizing of the destination text (in Clearview) makes the route shields appear much smaller.  Additionally, many of DelDOT's newer BGS installations have spacing issues as well.

[Alex4897]

Another to add: DelDOT's overall BGS replacements have gone from first to worst in many instances.  Their oversizing of the destination text (in Clearview) makes the route shields appear much smaller.  Additionally, many of DelDOT's newer BGS installations have spacing issues as well.

Not only that, I went through the interchange being redone at US 202 and the exit signs were labelled with a US 202 shield with "Concord Pike" in small letters as the direction.

[PHLBOS]

I went through the interchange being redone at US 202 and the exit signs were labelled with a US 202 shield with "Concord Pike" in small letters as the direction.

Is the Concord Pike lettering used in addtion to or instead of the NORTH-SOUTH cardinal?  When done/placed properly, it may not look too bad.  I'd have to see those up close and personal before I make a personal judgment call.

[Alex4897]

I went through the interchange being redone at US 202 and the exit signs were labelled with a US 202 shield with "Concord Pike" in small letters as the direction.

Is the Concord Pike lettering used in addtion to or instead of the NORTH-SOUTH cardinal?  When done/placed properly, it may not look too bad.  I'd have to see those up close and personal before I make a personal judgment call.

It's instead of using North/South.  It looks fine I guess, but last I checked "Concord Pike" is not a direction.

[PHLBOS]

I went through the interchange being redone at US 202 and the exit signs were labelled with a US 202 shield with "Concord Pike" in small letters as the direction.

Is the Concord Pike lettering used in addtion to or instead of the NORTH-SOUTH cardinal?  When done/placed properly, it may not look too bad.  I'd have to see those up close and personal before I make a personal judgment call.

It's instead of using North/South.  It looks fine I guess, but last I checked "Concord Pike" is not a direction.

The only case where using the Concord Pike instead of a direction cardinal (and placed on as such) would be either for advance/approach BGS' or if there's only one exit ramp that splits into two further down.  The exit ramp off I-95 North to US (& DE) 202 does that and has listed Concord Pike on the BGS' since the 70s.  Likewise for the advance/approach BGS'. 

The original BGS didn't list the street name but DelDOT moved the US 202 shield and placed the lettering to the left of the shield.  Such a change left a bright green shadow where the US 202 shield was oringally placed.

IMHO, if DelDOT wanted to list both the street name and destinations on the same BGS panels; they could simply do what the PTC does for its named/toll-ticketed interchanges and place the street name (in CAPS) between the exit tabs and shields/cardinals with a white line separating them.

One of our sign artists on this forum can take such, experiment and show us the results.

[agentsteel53]

I think the most egregious sign replacement of good-to-bad was tearing out all the 1960s-vintage signs referencing the Pasadena Freeway, and replacing them with "Parkway" references. 

about 30 old porcelain signs were removed all to ... celebrate the history of the road as the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

[cpzilliacus]

I think the most egregious sign replacement of good-to-bad was tearing out all the 1960s-vintage signs referencing the Pasadena Freeway, and replacing them with "Parkway" references. 

about 30 old porcelain signs were removed all to ... celebrate the history of the road as the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

I would love to see Caltrans install 1940's-spec signage on the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

[SignBridge]

Agentsteel53, wasn't it high time to replace those old signs anyway? Even porcelain signs don't last forever. 

[agentsteel53]

Agentsteel53, wasn't it high time to replace those old signs anyway? Even porcelain signs don't last forever.

they come damn close.  a lot of the porcelain signs from as far back as 1959* are in excellent shape.  some could use a washing, but they remain quite legible.  much more so than a lot of the button copy issues that came later.

*  (which is the oldest year still generally found, since before that you'd have black signs and those would be retired for being really, really out of spec)

[andy3175]

I think the most egregious sign replacement of good-to-bad was tearing out all the 1960s-vintage signs referencing the Pasadena Freeway, and replacing them with "Parkway" references. 

about 30 old porcelain signs were removed all to ... celebrate the history of the road as the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

Gotta love the irony in that. In San Diego, I felt the same way when they erected historic signs stating that SR 163 through Balboa Park is the "Historic Cabrillo Freeway" yet seemed to have forgotten that the freeway was built as part of US 395 (and US 80). Perhaps the historic signs should have referenced US 395 rather than SR 163?

Regards,
Andy