Should the teaching age be raised to 30?

[tolbs17]

I wanted to make this because I have been seeing a lot of charges from the teachers under 30, such as having sex or assault.

I've had some teachers under 30, but they are alright in my opinion... I had a middle and high school teacher that would get irritated with what other students do sometimes and give them consequences. I think the alternative jobs that teachers can do when they are under 30 is they either volunteer or work at the Autism Society or babysit.

Or they can intern for a while but that's usually just one year.

I'm glad I'm out of school and don't see this happening.

I vote "Yes", the teaching age should be raised to 30.

There's already plenty of teachers that are under 30 (and even 25) that I think are just way too young, and are prone to be a little brutal to other students.

[JayhawkCO]

Without question, no.  One of the silliest things I've ever read.   You will end up with zero teachers if you don't allow people to teach out of college.  Why would they go to college for it then?

[tolbs17]

Without question, no.  One of the silliest things I've ever read.
You will end up with zero teachers if you don't allow people to teach out of college.  Why would they go to college for it then?

So, they can learn how to be a teacher but, I think it might just be me that's looking at it or the area that I'm in because the ones I had were certainly not that great.

We are already experiencing teacher shortages due to covid-19, but hopefully that will dwindle down.

[formulanone]

Oh, so the 19-year-old without a job is going to tell other professionals they shouldn't have their jobs. I've rarely met a teenager that would say glowing things about teachers, because they look at them as oppressors and will magnify anyone's flaws before taking a seasoned look at themselves.

If you think that few rogue teachers are give the industry a black eye, or a few "warm bodies behind a desk" are not progressing your career goals, you're looking at a small percentage of the whole. It's a low-paid government job (if not in a private/parochial school) which requires a college degree and certification, which includes few safety nets: seniority basis of tenure, pay is fixed in place, you're told exactly where you'll work, and moving up mostly means "moving on". There are some great perks (usually two months off in the summer and always off for the holidays), and usually some decent benefits. But teachers, as well as school systems, are also under more scrutiny and political pressures than ever before. The expectation is that they defray the costs of supplies and the little perks they give you in the classroom, though you must understand that took up unpaid time and energy after their day.

As you can imagine, the parents don't make it easy, either. Most are fine, and will leave them alone throughout the year. But many are unwilling to make decisions about their children's skill gaps, behavior, or unwilling to help. Either they're harassing the teachers or administrators to deal with their child's issues (or just make them vanish) before attempting to do anything about it at home. And that battle will last long after the ship has hit the iceberg, and they'll wonder why they didn't teach their kid to make a life raft nor how to swim by now.

School systems move as swiftly and deftly as ocean barges around serious behavior and learning issues, so that's a layer of frustration all the way around into decision-making. Someone else has to approve every exception, the plan must be laid out and approved by an expert, then someone in upper management for a school district has to also approve it, someone must check on the implementation of the change, to make sure it's all working out. (Naturally, if any cog took a day off, things take a setback.)

Ideally, raise the parenting age first, but that cannot and will never happen in our society. Just imagine the attitudes of parents who never had a chance to grow up, have rarely accomplished anything but hiding their underage drinking, now suddenly thrust into the importance parenthood without escaping any of the vices and they once had, balanced by a total lack of experience, and with no admission of mistakes to the authority figures they despised. Do you think that student has a chance?

[hotdogPi]

I've rarely met a teenager that would say glowing things about teachers, because they look at them as oppressors and will magnify anyone's flaws before taking a seasoned look at themselves.

I would be one of them, but it depended on the specific teacher. I could tell that some teachers (11th grade English, AP physics and chemistry) really knew what they were talking about, while others (8th grade English unless I'm off by one year, 10th grade history) only knew what they were teaching and that was it.

Part of this might be that I was in school for the academics, not the social life.

[formulanone]

I've rarely met a teenager that would say glowing things about teachers, because they look at them as oppressors and will magnify anyone's flaws before taking a seasoned look at themselves.

I would be one of them, but it depended on the specific teacher. I could tell that some teachers (11th grade English, AP physics and chemistry) really knew what they were talking about, while others (8th grade English unless I'm off by one year, 10th grade history) only knew what they were teaching and that was it.

Part of this might be that I was in school for the academics, not the social life.

That's only meaningful if you told the teacher or instructor how you felt.

I've had a few gems over the years, too.

[tolbs17]

Ideally, raise the parenting age first, but that cannot and will never happen in our society. Just imagine the attitudes of parents who never had a chance to grow up, have rarely accomplished anything but hiding their underage drinking, now suddenly thrust into the importance parenthood without escaping any of the vices and they once had, balanced by a total lack of experience, and with no admission of mistakes to the authority figures they despised. Do you think that student has a chance?

Yes, I know a low functioning student that is nonverbal, and the teachers have to communicate with just movements with their body parts. Or are you referring to anybody in general? If anything I know a lot of African students are that way.

[kkt]

No.  Teachers usually improve rapidly from their first year teaching to the second and the second to the third, but that happens regardless of age and I don't know of any way they can just skip their first year teaching.  Ideally they're in a MA in teaching program in which the second year is as an assistant to the teacher of record and they can learn by being in a real classroom.  I also don't think age alone is going to screen out those who might molest or assault students.

People graduating from college usually have student loans, and they need real jobs so they can pay them.  They may even expect to have jobs that can let them afford a place to live and food without having to live with their parents.  Not babysitting - you can do that at 14.

[Rothman]

Ideally, raise the parenting age first, but that cannot and will never happen in our society. Just imagine the attitudes of parents who never had a chance to grow up, have rarely accomplished anything but hiding their underage drinking, now suddenly thrust into the importance parenthood without escaping any of the vices and they once had, balanced by a total lack of experience, and with no admission of mistakes to the authority figures they despised. Do you think that student has a chance?

Yes, I know a low functioning student that is nonverbal, and the teachers have to communicate with just movements with their body parts. Or are you referring to anybody in general? If anything I know a lot of African students are that way.

What the...

[kkt]

Special Ed is a whole specialty within teaching.  You don't get to learn communication techniques with nonverbal kids by keeping breathing for 30 years.

[Max Rockatansky]

Ideally, raise the parenting age first, but that cannot and will never happen in our society. Just imagine the attitudes of parents who never had a chance to grow up, have rarely accomplished anything but hiding their underage drinking, now suddenly thrust into the importance parenthood without escaping any of the vices and they once had, balanced by a total lack of experience, and with no admission of mistakes to the authority figures they despised. Do you think that student has a chance?

Yes, I know a low functioning student that is nonverbal, and the teachers have to communicate with just movements with their body parts. Or are you referring to anybody in general? If anything I know a lot of African students are that way.

What the...

Sounds like the plot of a porno movie.

[NWI_Irish96]

I wanted to make this because I have been seeing a lot of charges from the teachers under 30, such as having sex or assault.

I've had some teachers under 30, but they are alright in my opinion... I had a middle and high school teacher that would get irritated with what other students do sometimes and give them consequences. I think the alternative jobs that teachers can do when they are under 30 is they either volunteer or work at the Autism Society or babysit.

Or they can intern for a while but that's usually just one year.

I'm glad I'm out of school and don't see this happening.

I vote "Yes", the teaching age should be raised to 30.

There's already plenty of teachers that are under 30 (and even 25) that I think are just way too young, and are prone to be a little brutal to other students.

You're essentially saying that people under 30 can't stop themselves from doing something wrong. If that's really the case then we might as well start a nuclear war with Russia and get everything over with.

[JREwing78]

It's a low-paid government job (if not in a private/parochial school) which requires a college degree and certification, which includes few safety nets: seniority basis of tenure, pay is fixed in place, you're told exactly where you'll work, and moving up mostly means "moving on".

The article I posted at the bottom cites statistics of 1 in 4 teachers leaving the profession altogether in the next year (and before that it was 1 in 6 teachers in a given year). Frankly, the folks who are willing to put up with the considerable amount of crap to do the job are the under-30 crowd.

The politics of education right now favors finding the cheapest people to go into the classrooms that they can get away with, preferably people who won't challenge administration's policies. The under-30 folks are ideal for that situation.

When a teacher gets enough experience that they command a bigger paycheck, they get pushed out and replaced by someone cheaper. This only works if there's enough of a pool of replacements. They HAVE to have teachers under 30 for this to work at all.

The educational system in this country would be a lot better served by paying teachers what they are worth, having more of them, and giving teachers reasons to stick around. If you made it a job worth having, experienced teachers would stick around, and we would get the benefits of that experience.

Instead, teachers are treated as glorified babysitters, forced to take 2nd and 3rd jobs to make ends meet, overwhelmed with college debt, and having their expertise overruled by folks who have never set foot in a classroom. Gee, I wonder why they don't stick around...

Stress Has Many U.S. Teachers Leaving Profession: Survey
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-06-23/stress-has-many-us-teachers-leaving-profession-survey

[dlsterner]

I wanted to make this because I have been seeing a lot of charges from the teachers under 30, such as having sex or assault.

Heaven forbid a teacher under 30 having *gasp* sex!   

(Serious answer to the post title:  No.)

Edit 2/6/2002:
Just to clarify - and be serious for a bit - the quote I referenced said nothing about sex with a student and I was referring to sex in general ... Teachers having sex with students is always reprehensible.

[SectorZ]

I don't have anything to back this up, but neither does Tolbs saying the opposite so I am not going to feel bad saying it...

I feel most stories of teachers banging their students the teachers are over 30. I'd say for every Pamela Smart there is a Mary Kay Letoruneau.

So, like I think I said in another thread recently, blaming EVERYONE under 30 for the bad behavior of a few people is pretty friggin' discriminatory.

If anything I know a lot of African students are that way.

Context please.

[Scott5114]

Without question, no.  One of the silliest things I've ever read.
You will end up with zero teachers if you don't allow people to teach out of college.  Why would they go to college for it then?

So, they can learn how to be a teacher but, I think it might just be me that's looking at it or the area that I'm in because the ones I had were certainly not that great.

Stop and think about this.
1. Kimberly graduates high school at age 18 and wants to become a teacher.
2. Kimberly goes to college to become a teacher and graduates at age 22.
3. Kimberly racks up $100,000 in debt over those four years due to tuition, room and board, etc.
4. Kimberly now has the credentials to become a teacher but cannot actually do so until age 30.
5. Kimberly still owes the bank $100,000. They want their money.
6. Kimberly has to get a job to pay the bank. She also probably wants money to eat, have a house and car, go on dates, etc.
7. Kimberly gets a non-teaching job to pay the bills.
8. Eight years go by.
9. Kimberly is now 30, but she has 8 years of experience in whatever non-teaching job she had. She has had 8 years of pay raises and seniority over other staffers. She can probably apply for a job at other companies in her industry and be an ideal candidate because of her experience. She has probably even been promoted a couple of times and may be a supervisor now. She has paid down a portion of her student loans and probably has made enough money to get a decent house and car. She might be married by this point and even have a kid or two of her own.
10. Why the fuck would Kimberly throw that all away to start at zero to become a teacher?

I would be one of them, but it depended on the specific teacher. I could tell that some teachers (11th grade English, AP physics and chemistry) really knew what they were talking about, while others (8th grade English unless I'm off by one year, 10th grade history) only knew what they were teaching and that was it.

Most of my worst teachers were men over 50 who didn't even know what they were teaching, they'd just assign a worksheet and reading out of the book, or else put a video on about what they were supposed to be teaching, turn the lights out, and go take a nap in the back of the classroom. These teachers didn't even bother teaching anything, they were merely grade dispensers. I always resented them, because if I was going to go to the trouble to learn on my own without any guidance from anyone who knew the subject (as I did with other subject matter I was interested in), I might as well get the benefit of not having to do a worksheet over it.

Most of these sorts of teachers were actually hired on as football coaches, but were required through some sort of state rule to do X amount of hours of regular classroom instruction as well. Everyone I know of who's gone to school in Oklahoma has had to deal with at least one know-nothing football coach as teacher. (Not to say that all coach-as-teacher setups are bad. Our head football coach was very passionate about the civics class he taught, and knew enough about the subject to be able to predict the Obama presidency years before anyone knew who the hell he was talking about. But he was the exception to the rule.)

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm kind of amused that the OP thinks that people under the age of 30 are incapable to hold certain job titles even they have the qualifications to do so.  A lot of us on this forum were doing significant things in their career and personal lives well before the age of 30.  In my case managed a security department by the time I was 22 and owned a home by the time I was 23.  Was everyone my age like that...hell no, but I wasn't the only one who was in a similar position either.  I kind of makes me question who the OP surrounds himself with if that is his perception of everyone under 30.

[Scott5114]

I managed a Burger King for a little while when I was 19. Then I went to the casino, and when I was 25, my job trusted me with $212,000 worth of their cash. And there were people younger than me in the vault with access to several million dollars. No big deal.

What I think OP doesn't understand is that if an organization is run by anyone who's even halfway smart, they set up internal controls to hold  bad actors accountable and remove them from the organization before they can do any more damage. Sure, I could have walked off with $212,000 in cash...but they would have had tape of me doing that on about twenty different cameras from enough angles that they'd know exactly what I was doing. I'd be in jail before I could even spend any of it. So trusting me with the money wasn't exactly a huge leap of faith.

[Max Rockatansky]

What might really blow the mind of the OP is how many inept people over 30 are out there.

[US 89]

Most of these sorts of teachers were actually hired on as football coaches, but were required through some sort of state rule to do X amount of hours of regular classroom instruction as well. Everyone I know of who's gone to school in Oklahoma has had to deal with at least one know-nothing football coach as teacher.

Heh, my parents went to high school in Oklahoma and had a very similar story regarding football coaches teaching driver's ed. As you might expect, everyone who took it learned nothing.

[zachary_amaryllis]

if a [prospective] teacher knows the material and is otherwise qualified, age is just a number.

[dlsterner]

Most of these sorts of teachers were actually hired on as football coaches, but were required through some sort of state rule to do X amount of hours of regular classroom instruction as well.

That was the case with me for my high school years as well (mid 1970's in Florida).  All physical education teachers were required to teach a certain amount of classroom hours.  For me, one semester of 10th grade English, one semester of Driver's Ed, and a one semester (required) social studies course "Comparative Political Systems" in 12th grade were all taught by P.E. teachers.

[thspfc]

Without question, no.  One of the silliest things I've ever read.
You will end up with zero teachers if you don't allow people to teach out of college.  Why would they go to college for it then?

So, they can learn how to be a teacher but, I think it might just be me that's looking at it or the area that I'm in because the ones I had were certainly not that great.

We are already experiencing teacher shortages due to covid-19, but hopefully that will dwindle down.

You are not experiencing teacher shortages due to Covid. You are experiencing teacher shortages due to the fact that it's often more logical for young people that were considering becoming teachers to instead get a job straight from high school, because they can make just as much money while adding four years of full-time work experience and subtracting a ton of student debt.

[hbelkins]

I get the feeling that the point that's really being made here is that high school teachers just out of college are fairly close in age to some of the students, and thus sometimes develop inappropriate relationships with students. Setting a minimum age for teachers won't stop that, as I've heard of teachers in their 30s having inappropriate relationships with students. And very often these days, it's female teachers and male students, when in the past you heard about it more often with male teachers and female students.

It's incumbent on the teacher to set appropriate boundaries and exercise some self-control. At least wait until the student is out of high school before hooking up with them.

[Road Hog]

A teacher banging a student is against the law. In most states, that is a felony with prison time, even if the student is of legal age.

Having said that, I've seen at least 3 instances where the teacher ended up marrying the student some time after the student's graduation.