Why isn't there always noise walls that surround buildings?

[tolbs17]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

[SEWIGuy]

I love the way you present things from North Carolina that you think are surprising or out of the ordinary, but are actually pretty run of the mill.

If this is what you are talking about, this is pretty routine.

https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Noise walls are expensive and ugly.  And you have to account for things like how they react to wind, etc.  Having buildings right along highways without them is pretty darn normal.

[tolbs17]

If this is what you are talking about, this is pretty routine.

https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Yes I'm talking about that tower. I even included it in my post.

[SkyPesos]

This is nothing new. Example in my area.

[tolbs17]

This is nothing new. Example in my area.

Ah, I see now. And NCDOT has no plans to add noise walls in the documents I seen. Regardless of any North Hills development. It will be like that.

[webny99]

And how about this section of I-95? Wave to your neighbors while 160K AADT roars past! Those have to be some of the most undesirable homes in the entire country.

[tolbs17]

And how about this section of I-95? Wave to your neighbors while 160K AADT roars past! Those have to be some of the most undesirable homes in the entire country.

I mean at least there is a fence and that looks like a highway before the interstate highway system was invented. That shouldn't even be a freeway in the first place. It should have been a boulevard design unless they purposely turned it into a freeway for cheaper cost, but idk.

Btw I edited my first post to include a link to what I'm talking about.

[Big John]

If they built/improved the freeway after the buildings were built, they will more likely put up the walls than if the buildings were built afterward since the newer buildings were built knowing there would be freeway noise.

[tolbs17]

If they built/improved the freeway after the buildings were built, they will more likely put up the walls than if the buildings were built afterward since the newer buildings were built knowing there would be freeway noise.

Yeah. It was improved in the mid 90s and none of the buildings were there. See in comparison:

2007: https://goo.gl/maps/ZJYTcuoS3Btc6BmA6

2022: https://goo.gl/maps/dTSLaKiYFfgACcDNA

[SEWIGuy]

And how about this section of I-95? Wave to your neighbors while 160K AADT roars past! Those have to be some of the most undesirable homes in the entire country.

Probably not very expensive though.

[1995hoo]

In that Street View link in the OP, I'd suggest a sound wall would be overkill next to the parking garage.

[webny99]

And how about this section of I-95? Wave to your neighbors while 160K AADT roars past! Those have to be some of the most undesirable homes in the entire country.

Probably not very expensive though.

Of course not, but I doubt that makes them any more desirable!

[jeffandnicole]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Usually, transportation departments are responsible for adding sound barriers when they are constructing, reconstructing, or widening roadways and highways near existing buildings if a developer wants to build near an existing roadway, they are going to be generally responsible for building a barrier if they desire to have one.

Unfortunately people make the mistake of thinking that a DOT has to immediately put up a sound barrier. Most people will be highly disappointed when a DOT tells them, no, that's not our policy.

The buyer should really be going after their real estate agent for giving them bad info, especially if they claim it's the transportation department's responsibiltiy. People treat their real estate agent as a friend, when their agent is really in it for the commission.

Maybe when you take a look at the GSV closer to the building, or an aerial shot, you'll realize how far off the highway it truly is, and the chances of a wayward vehicle hitting it is very remote at best.

[tolbs17]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Usually, transportation departments are responsible for adding sound barriers when they are constructing, reconstructing, or widening roadways and highways near existing buildings if a developer wants to build near an existing roadway, they are going to be generally responsible for building a barrier if they desire to have one.

Unfortunately people make the mistake of thinking that a DOT has to immediately put up a sound barrier. Most people will be highly disappointed when a DOT tells them, no, that's not our policy.

The buyer should really be going after their real estate agent for giving them bad info, especially if they claim it's the transportation department's responsibiltiy. People treat their real estate agent as a friend, when their agent is really in it for the commission.

Maybe when you take a look at the GSV closer to the building, or an aerial shot, you'll realize how far off the highway it truly is, and the chances of a wayward vehicle hitting it is very remote at best.

Or they probably purposely did that so that everybody can see it!

[Scott5114]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Usually, transportation departments are responsible for adding sound barriers when they are constructing, reconstructing, or widening roadways and highways near existing buildings if a developer wants to build near an existing roadway, they are going to be generally responsible for building a barrier if they desire to have one.

Unfortunately people make the mistake of thinking that a DOT has to immediately put up a sound barrier. Most people will be highly disappointed when a DOT tells them, no, that's not our policy.

The buyer should really be going after their real estate agent for giving them bad info, especially if they claim it's the transportation department's responsibiltiy. People treat their real estate agent as a friend, when their agent is really in it for the commission.

Maybe when you take a look at the GSV closer to the building, or an aerial shot, you'll realize how far off the highway it truly is, and the chances of a wayward vehicle hitting it is very remote at best.

Or they probably purposely did that so that everybody can see it!

Why would they?

[tolbs17]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Usually, transportation departments are responsible for adding sound barriers when they are constructing, reconstructing, or widening roadways and highways near existing buildings if a developer wants to build near an existing roadway, they are going to be generally responsible for building a barrier if they desire to have one.

Unfortunately people make the mistake of thinking that a DOT has to immediately put up a sound barrier. Most people will be highly disappointed when a DOT tells them, no, that's not our policy.

The buyer should really be going after their real estate agent for giving them bad info, especially if they claim it's the transportation department's responsibiltiy. People treat their real estate agent as a friend, when their agent is really in it for the commission.

Maybe when you take a look at the GSV closer to the building, or an aerial shot, you'll realize how far off the highway it truly is, and the chances of a wayward vehicle hitting it is very remote at best.

Or they probably purposely did that so that everybody can see it!

Why would they?

So they can encourage people to visit or move in to those apartments.

[formulanone]

Sparker's excellent post about the after-effects of sound walls bears repeating:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18634.msg2169677#msg2169677

One of the interesting (and not talked about) side-effects of sound walls is an artifact of the fact that sound waves are affected by gravity.  Most sound walls are intended to stave off complaints from the neighborhoods immediately adjacent to the freeways.  Engineers will take SPL (sound pressure level) meters out to the areas and cobble up some height measurements for the walls based upon the readings.  The wall gets built, and they go out there again and determine the difference in dB (decibels) between "before" and "after" for a given location, normally along the nearest adjacent street paralleling the freeway.  If it's down a certain level (likely 18-24dB or more), they call it a day; if under that figure, they add some height to the wall. 

What walls do to the noise generated by the traffic on the freeway is to amplify that noise directly above the freeway; it's a phenomenon known in the audio industry as "horn-loading"; with only one direction (besides laterally along the freeway itself, which makes little or no difference since the facility itself IS the noise generator) to exhaust itself the sound waves self-amplify vertically.  Eventually those waves are dissipated by gravity and arc outwards from the vertical trajectory -- and eventually return to ground level a certain distance from the freeway/noise generator.  That distance is dependent upon a lot of variable factors: the distance between the sound walls on either side of the freeway, the height of the wall, and even the mean frequency generated by the traffic (diesel engines tend to produce a lower frequency noise spectrum than do gasoline engines). 

Back in the early 90's sound walls were constructed along the CA 85 freeway between I-280 and CA 237; the wall height was about the same as the clearance height of the bridges over the freeway (15-16 feet).  A close friend owned and rented out a house on Wright Street in Sunnyvale, about 6 blocks east of the freeway.  Immediately after the walls were installed, he received complaints from his tenant about increased noise levels -- that sounded suspiciously like freeway noise.  I'm in the speaker design and development business, so he called me for advice; I went over to the rental property and measured the SPL there (you gotta have a portable SPL meter in the speaker business!) as well as on all the parallel streets between Wright and the freeway, as well as 3-4 streets east of there.  While the noise level was relatively low on the street immediately adjacent to the freeway, it increased slightly on the next street over, slightly more on the next street, and ramped up until halfway between the street just west of Wright and Wright Street itself -- right smack on the back patio of my friend's rental house! -- it was about 12-15dB higher than immediately adjacent to the freeway.  East of there the process reversed, each street had slightly lower levels than the next until no significant sound level was detected.  Just my buddy's luck -- his property was the location where the freeway sound waves touched down, diminished by about 10-15dB from the source (we measured that on an overpass) but higher (again about 10-15dB) than the rest of the immediate area.  The noise was centered at about 250 Hz (for you musicians out there, just under middle "C" on a piano, which is 261.6 Hz).

My friend has never been the type to take things lying down, so he complained to Caltrans District 4 about the problem -- but they dismissed it with a "not too bad considering" response, saying there was nothing they could do about it short of capping the freeway, which they were (obviously) not about to consider.  I even wrote a supporting letter suggesting that they place lateral "shelves" along the sound wall to break up the upwards standing waves; there response was that they would take that concept into consideration in future placements, but were not about to retrofit the CA 85 walls in any case. 

He has a new tenant (a divorced college buddy) who tends to play his TV and audio systems louder than normal, so the noise is less of an issue than previously -- but the last time I was on the property, I could still hear the freeway noise distinctly in the back yard.  You can only dissipate sound waves with distance; at close range, you can merely relocate them!

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Good casement windows block noise extremely well, much better than a noise wall could.

[SEWIGuy]

Check this out for instance. Kane is building apartments/towers that surround I-440 and there is no noise walls, nothing. I feel like a car can skid through that guard rail and sink through that end. Or can debris from the fiery crash hit those buildings?

Link: https://goo.gl/maps/C8oUkv3tPopQrr8w7

To be honest, I'm sure NCDOT is aware of this and the heavy developments that surround interchanges. I-440 was substantially rebuilt in the mid 90s and now North Hills is changing the game. And NO noise walls have been added surrounding the highway.

For those of you that are interested, this is what they are building with an expected completion date of spring 2024: https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/north-hills-tower-5/

Usually, transportation departments are responsible for adding sound barriers when they are constructing, reconstructing, or widening roadways and highways near existing buildings if a developer wants to build near an existing roadway, they are going to be generally responsible for building a barrier if they desire to have one.

Unfortunately people make the mistake of thinking that a DOT has to immediately put up a sound barrier. Most people will be highly disappointed when a DOT tells them, no, that's not our policy.

The buyer should really be going after their real estate agent for giving them bad info, especially if they claim it's the transportation department's responsibiltiy. People treat their real estate agent as a friend, when their agent is really in it for the commission.

Maybe when you take a look at the GSV closer to the building, or an aerial shot, you'll realize how far off the highway it truly is, and the chances of a wayward vehicle hitting it is very remote at best.

Or they probably purposely did that so that everybody can see it!

Why would they?

So they can encourage people to visit or move in to those apartments.

Pretty sure that it wouldn't make much difference. 

Here is an condo building just off of an I-794 exit ramp in Milwaukee.  Must be refreshing to sit out on those balconies!  One just sold for $535,000. (2 beds, 2 baths) 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0354448,-87.9145698,3a,75y,139.41h,86.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqUZqaEqGCUJ1xYXFr_Hjiw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[kalvado]

I wonder if additional sound proofing technology is incorporated in construction. There are definitely ways to reduce noise transmission through walls, for example. Some vibration proofing maybe?

[tolbs17]

Even the east end connector (future I-885) doesn't have them. I guess they were not included in the project.

https://goo.gl/maps/tfFmGm9hudYqWFoX7

https://goo.gl/maps/PwF143ernYLuLsY79