Old old roads

[texaskdog]

I'm reading a book about Death in Big Bend and they were talking abou the "Old Old Ore Road".  It has more to do with the "Old Ore Road" being a name than an old road but I was thinking are there any "old old roads" you particularly enjoy?

[NE2]

Old alignments of old alignments are cool.

[US71]

Old alignments of old alignments are cool.

Devil's Elbow, MO

[agentsteel53]

Old alignments of old alignments are cool.

Devil's Elbow, MO

actually, in that scenario, I think the 1940s expressway is much more interesting than the two-laner.  where do you find nearly abandoned four-lane roads?  (see also: boat ramp in Springfield, IL.)

[2Co5_14]

Old Old Alabama Rd, Emerson, GA:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=34.119883,-84.763708&spn=0.000002,0.002064&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=34.11988,-84.76355&panoid=gW8HIXi7B6Qcm0ZUGCe9Rw&cbp=12,83.17,,0,4.5

[bugo]

actually, in that scenario, I think the 1940s expressway is much more interesting than the two-laner.  where do you find nearly abandoned four-lane roads?  (see also: boat ramp in Springfield, IL.)

I-44 near Catoosa:

[agentsteel53]

what year was that segment of I-44 abandoned?

[hbelkins]

where do you find nearly abandoned four-lane roads?  (see also: boat ramp in Springfield, IL.)

Breezewood, PA.

actually, in that scenario, I think the 1940s expressway is much more interesting than the two-laner.  where do you find nearly abandoned four-lane roads?  (see also: boat ramp in Springfield, IL.)

I-44 near Catoosa:

Why was that section abandoned? And I think that picture should go in the "Worst of road signs" thread. 

[bugo]

2002 maybe?

[J N Winkler]

We could have a whole thread on oxbow lengths of abandoned freeway--Pennsylvania Turnpike in the vicinity of Breezewood, Kansas Turnpike near East Topeka Interchange, Will Rogers Turnpike as pictured above, I-44 near Rolla, etc.

[agentsteel53]

2002 maybe?

then I have no excuse for managing to end up on the Creek Turnpike because I didn't realize I-44 westbound bounced off itself.  I drove the new segment in 2006; I should have remembered!

[agentsteel53]

Kansas Turnpike near East Topeka Interchange

where's this?

(in other news, I have always found it interesting that one of the more interesting roadgeek items - the abandoned PA Turnpike - is right next to one of the great uproars - Breezewood.  coincidence or design that 70 ended up splitting off near there?)

[J N Winkler]

Kansas Turnpike near East Topeka Interchange

where's this?

Strictly speaking, it is an abandoned interchange and service area on the Turnpike and an abandoned length of free I-70.

Satellite image of current East Topeka Interchange complex

At the bottom left you can see the grades (pavement obliterated) for the former East Topeka Interchange trumpet, and toward the lower middle right is the original East Topeka service area, which has now been abandoned in favor of a new location (accessible by right-hand ramps, which require flyovers for eastbound traffic) further to the east.  The truck parking area just to the north of the trumpet ramps is right on top of old free I-70, which made a sharp turn to the south as it approached the Turnpike from the west.  The eastbound exit ramp for the Rice Road partial cloverleaf (with the roundabouts at ramp termini) is more or less on top of the old I-70 curve.

There is also a length of what is now the eastbound Turnpike that runs due west-east from the abandoned service area to just east of the Tecumseh Road grade separation that was originally bidirectional since it was part of the original Turnpike alignment.  The westbound lanes now curve slightly to the north on a new alignment (opened in 2001 along with the rest of the present interchange) to leave room for ramp braiding.

Before construction started around 1999 or so, it might still have been possible to see evidence of a loop ramp at the I-70 curve.  I-70 was originally supposed to continue eastward of the curve and interface with the Turnpike through a double interchange.  Only part of this plan was originally built out, with the result that for about one or two decades, eastbound I-70 traffic followed the curve to the Turnpike while westbound traffic had to exit a connector to US 40 (which follows SW 6th Ave. east out of Topeka) and loop 270° under itself at the curve.  This loop ramp was removed, probably in the mid-1980's, as was much of the US 40 connector, whose obliterated alignment is visible in the center left of the Google Maps extract.

Google Maps implies that eastbound US 40 turns south onto Deer Creek Trafficway, then onto free I-70, then onto K-4 (Oakland Expressway), and finally exits K-4 back onto SW 6th.  While bobbing and weaving of this kind is not unknown when KDOT wants to eliminate on-system mileage (cf. the recent example in Lawrence), I don't think Google is correct here, since the signing visible in StreetView does not show a turn for US 40 at Deer Creek.

[Brian556]

US 377 at Roanoke, Texas.

The first realignment bypassed an oxbox at a steep hill o nthe north end, and moved the highway over one black to beside the tracks on the south end (through town). The second modification moved the highway closer to the tracks through the floodplain. This was done to raise the highway in conjunction with the construction of Grapevine Lake.

On the north end, the old, old route made an oxbox around the hill in order to climb it more gently. I assume this was because cars of the era would've had a hard time climbing the steep hill that the second alignment took.

Note that someone has re-used part of the first alignment for a driveway:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.044694,-97.202493&spn=0.004477,0.006228&t=h&z=18

On the south end, the old alignment used Oak St through town. Oddly, Many parts of the road on the northern part of town are gone. They were eliminated way before this area was developed. The current roads use tiny portions of the old alignment. Look Closely and you can spot them.
http://goo.gl/maps/kukCh

Another cool one is Old, old SR 2 In Marion Co, TN. (This alignment may have also carried US 41, but maybe not 64 since it was added to this corridor later.) The old road parallels I-24, but an older gravel routing is to the east. A very old bridge still exists, and is being reused as a driveway:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=jasper,+tn&hl=en&ll=35.152212,-85.776373&spn=0.000004,0.003114&sll=33.018344,-97.208276&sspn=0.025333,0.049825&t=h&hnear=Jasper,+Marion,+Tennessee&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.152212,-85.776373&panoid=4xdZ9st_JJBFtqwANB9mVQ&cbp=12,342.08,,0,0

[agentsteel53]

thanks for the explanation, JNW!  the only section I had noticed was a bit of the westbound I-70 between the rest area (I had not noticed on the satellite view that it was abandoned) and Tecumseh.  only upon close, directed inspection did I find the old trumpet, but after a few seconds it becomes plainly obvious how 70 curved through the truck area.

[Doctor Whom]

I'm reading a book about Death in Big Bend and they were talking abou the "Old Old Ore Road".  It has more to do with the "Old Ore Road" being a name than an old road but I was thinking are there any "old old roads" you particularly enjoy?

Hoya Street in Rockville, Maryland, used to be called Old Old Georgetown Road.  Does that make it the old Old Old Georgetown Road?

[hbelkins]

2002 maybe?

Current Google Street View shows the grade of Pine Street being raised to the level of the bridge via a fill across the old road. So now it's no longer possible to pass under the bridge. Come to think of it, I believe I remember seeing you post those pictures sometime previously somewhere.

More in keeping with this thread, the former KY 978 in Owen County -- now KY 227 -- runs from just north of Owenton to the community of New Liberty. It's known locally as Old New Liberty Road. Kinda like "old old" but different.

[US81]

Near Waco TX (Bellmead / Lacy Lakeview), north of downtown where Loop 340 intersects I-35, there are the Old Dallas Road, the New Dallas Highway (Bus 77), and I-35 (US 77) itself.  [Just north from here are segments of what may have been an even older alignment: Central St/Rd and Katy Rd (discontinuous, but appear to have been the same road) look as "vintage" as the old Dallas Road.]

I think there is a similar 'old old' south of San Antonio: Quintana Rd, the New Laredo Highway and I-35 itself, but I haven't researched this one much. (When I have more time, I'll dig out my older maps....)

[jakeroot]

Here in Seattle, most of the roads are really well taken care of, and even if they weren't, most are new enough that they are still in pretty good shape.

There is one road near Lakewood, WA (Interlaaken Drive) that is extremely old and really thin with a sort of faux-shoulder that is really awkward to drive on. You are constantly riding your right tires on the one-two inch dip between the old road and the "shoulder". I doubt that most of you find this road old, but to me, it's ancient. The only time I've ever skidded around a corner was on this road going to school on bare '02 Honda Civic tires (that I soon replaced). The car weighs practically nothing and I nearly took out a mailbox. Not sure if it was the road or my carelessness, but I've taken extra caution since then. The road has quite a few speedhumps, but they are equally as old and you can take them at the posted speed of 25 w/o issue.

[US71]

Why was that section abandoned? And I think that picture should go in the "Worst of road signs" thread. 

44 got rerouted when the Creek Turnpike was finished.  http://goo.gl/maps/ms8eY

We checked that out during the Tulsa Roadmeet a couple years back.

[Alps]

NJ 163
NJ 167

[NE2]

I realized that old alignments of old alignments can come about in two ways: a small bypass is built, then a bigger one, or a large bypass is built and then the old alignment is later improved, leaving behind an old alignment.

Former: too many to list, but US 31 at Kokomo IN is a good example. Latter: Rose Lake Shore Lane is old Old Winter Garden Road, which carried SR 50 until about 1960.

[US71]

Old alignments of old alignments are cool.

Devil's Elbow, MO

actually, in that scenario, I think the 1940s expressway is much more interesting than the two-laner.  where do you find nearly abandoned four-lane roads?  (see also: boat ramp in Springfield, IL.)

Devil's Elbow, the original road has a nice truss bridge and a cool overlook.  The 4-Lane has a nice arch bridge

It was also the last section old 66 bypassed in Missouri.

[Alex4897]

I realized that old alignments of old alignments can come about in two ways: a small bypass is built, then a bigger one, or a large bypass is built and then the old alignment is later improved, leaving behind an old alignment.

You could therefore consider State St. in Dover DE to be an "old old road," US 13 as it currently stands was originally built as a bypass, and then DE 1 built as a bypass to the bypass.

[Brian556]

Quote from NE2:

Latter: Rose Lake Shore Lane is old Old Winter Garden Road, which carried SR 50 until about 1960.

Yeah I noticed that one; the old brick alignment of SR 22/51(old number of SR 50) that was recently destroyed could also qualify.