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Old old roads

Started by texaskdog, February 04, 2014, 07:56:40 AM

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sdmichael

On US 101 in the San Fernando Valley, there were three alignments + freeway through Chalk Hill (between DeSoto and Winetka). The first was single-slab concrete, the second was a three-lane hwy, the third follows the current alignment of Ventura Blvd, and the Ventura Freeway runs just north on a whole new alignment. So... Old Old Old, Then Old Old, Then Old, and finally Current.


cpzilliacus

Oldest east-west road crossing the Patapsco River west of Baltimore is Old Frederick Road.

Next-oldest crossing is Md. 144, Frederick Road.

Next-oldest crossing is U.S. 40, Baltimore National Pike (the bridge was being reconstructed in this image, but the project is now completed).

"Current" crossing is a high bridge that carries I-70 over the Patapsco River gorge and the CSX Old Mainline.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Pete from Boston

Quote from: sdmichael on February 04, 2014, 11:30:03 PM
On US 101 in the San Fernando Valley, there were three alignments + freeway through Chalk Hill (between DeSoto and Winetka). The first was single-slab concrete, the second was a three-lane hwy, the third follows the current alignment of Ventura Blvd, and the Ventura Freeway runs just north on a whole new alignment. So... Old Old Old, Then Old Old, Then Old, and finally Current.

This is a fairly common occurrence along the Lincoln Highway in Pennsylvania (and probably other states as well).  There are spots where you find US 30 (the ostensible modern through route of the LH), then Lincoln Highway, then Old Lincoln Highway.  These are of course not always the particular names, just representative of the roads involved.  Old LH is at times a single lane of pavement, the middle version a "main street," and the "current" a four-lane highway.  All of these are, of course, superseded as long-distance routes by the Pennsylvania Turnpike (which, the case could be made, is an "Old" route itself desperately in need of a "current" route to supersede it in turn).

TheStranger

Another US 101 example:

Mission Road in Colma/South San Francisco is the original US 101

Bypassed by the modern El Camino Real (Route 82) in the late 1930s

Bypassed by Bayshore Freeway in 1964, itself a bypass of surface street Airport Boulevard (old US 101/Bypass US 101)
Chris Sampang

NE2

Quote from: Brian556 on February 04, 2014, 10:36:01 PM
Yeah I noticed that one; the old brick alignment of SR 22/51(old number of SR 50) that was recently destroyed could also qualify.
Wasn't that bypassed when it was still SR 22? The Ocoee/Winter Garden bypass was never SR 22, but became SR 50 in 1945.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Alps

Any former alignment of US 66 is tops in my book. (Bypassed by upgraded 66, bypassed by whichever Interstate)

dgolub

Out on Long Island, there are a couple of county routes, like South Country Road (Suffolk CR 36) and Frowein Road (Suffolk CR 98), that may have been old alignments of Montauk Highway (Suffolk CR 80), which in turn was the old alignment of NY 27.

Brian556

Quote from NE2

Quote

QuoteYeah I noticed that one; the old brick alignment of SR 22/51(old number of SR 50) that was recently destroyed could also qualify.


Wasn't that bypassed when it was still SR 22? The Ocoee/Winter Garden bypass was never SR 22, but became SR 50 in 1945.

I'm not sure.  As for the current alignment of SR 50, to my knowledge, it was completed in 1950(don't remember the source), well after the great renumbering.

As for the Ocoee-Winter Garden bypass, it sounds like you are referring to a state number it may have had (SR 434 on my 1943 map) prior to becoming SR 50. You'd know way more than I do about that.

NE2

Quote from: Brian556 on February 05, 2014, 10:20:05 AM
As for the Ocoee-Winter Garden bypass, it sounds like you are referring to a state number it may have had (SR 434 on my 1943 map) prior to becoming SR 50. You'd know way more than I do about that.
It was built in the late 1920s by Orange County as the Oakland-Orlando Road (County Project No. 67) and designated SR 434 in 1939. Unlike most of the 1939 Orange County additions, it seems to have actually been taken over by the state, as it became part of SR 50 in 1945. From then until about 1960, SR 50 used CR Old 50/CR 438 from Minneola to CR 545 and CR 526 from Minorville to Orlando, but its current alignment between CR 545 and Minorville.

Incidentally, current SR 50 from Clermont to CR 455 was built by Lake County as the "Roller Coaster Road", and was designated as part of SR 257 in 1931, but was apparently not acquired by the state until about 1960.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

bugo

In Catoosa, there is the original US 66 (Cherokee Street), current SH 66, the old I-44/Will Rogers Turnpike, and the new I-44.

US71

Quote from: bugo on February 05, 2014, 12:19:57 PM
In Catoosa, there is the original US 66 (Cherokee Street), current SH 66, the old I-44/Will Rogers Turnpike, and the new I-44.

I'm a bit surprised OTA or ODOT didn't tear out the pavement OR take down the signs. I guess it's cheaper to let Mother Nature reclaim it, though MoDOT chewed up a lot of old 44 near Arlington.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

US81

Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2014, 03:45:42 PM

...More in keeping with this thread, the former KY 978 in Owen County -- now KY 227 -- runs from just north of Owenton to the community of New Liberty. It's known locally as Old New Liberty Road. Kinda like "old old" but different.

Along these lines, there is a small town in Texas (WNW of Houston, E of Austin) called Old Dime Box. I think I remember driving on an 'old Old Dime Box road' some years back exploring OSR / Camino Real / TX 21. I cannot find it on my maps and search engines are not giving me clear references. Hmmm, I suppose it could be senility....

bugo

In Hatfield, Arkansas, there is Old Line Road which I believe to be the original Jefferson Highway, then old US 71 which followed 1st Street, then current US 71/59 which follows 2nd Street, and in the future I-49 (if the damned thing ever gets built.)

texaskdog

Quote from: US71 on February 04, 2014, 06:17:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2014, 01:00:08 PM

Why was that section abandoned? And I think that picture should go in the "Worst of road signs" thread.  :-D

44 got rerouted when the Creek Turnpike was finished.  http://goo.gl/maps/ms8eY

We checked that out during the Tulsa Roadmeet a couple years back.

Thats gonna be a badass little road when they reuse it for future development as it appears they will

Brian556

quote from NE2:
QuoteIt was built in the late 1920s by Orange County as the Oakland-Orlando Road (County Project No. 67) and designated SR 434 in 1939. Unlike most of the 1939 Orange County additions, it seems to have actually been taken over by the state, as it became part of SR 50 in 1945. From then until about 1960, SR 50 used CR Old 50/CR 438 from Minneola to CR 545 and CR 526 from Minorville to Orlando, but its current alignment between CR 545 and Minorville.

Incidentally, current SR 50 from Clermont to CR 455 was built by Lake County as the "Roller Coaster Road", and was designated as part of SR 257 in 1931, but was apparently not acquired by the state until about 1960

So, the Winter Garden-Ocoee Bypass was built before the rest of straight-line 50. Interesting. I was about to mention the "Roller Coaster Route" in Lake Co. in a earlier post, but opted not to. Love that name, though.

texaskdog

Quote from: US81 on February 05, 2014, 12:50:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2014, 03:45:42 PM

...More in keeping with this thread, the former KY 978 in Owen County -- now KY 227 -- runs from just north of Owenton to the community of New Liberty. It's known locally as Old New Liberty Road. Kinda like "old old" but different.

Along these lines, there is a small town in Texas (WNW of Houston, E of Austin) called Old Dime Box. I think I remember driving on an 'old Old Dime Box road' some years back exploring OSR / Camino Real / TX 21. I cannot find it on my maps and search engines are not giving me clear references. Hmmm, I suppose it could be senility....

And Dime Box itself is pretty small

mrsman

Quote from: sdmichael on February 04, 2014, 11:30:03 PM
On US 101 in the San Fernando Valley, there were three alignments + freeway through Chalk Hill (between DeSoto and Winetka). The first was single-slab concrete, the second was a three-lane hwy, the third follows the current alignment of Ventura Blvd, and the Ventura Freeway runs just north on a whole new alignment. So... Old Old Old, Then Old Old, Then Old, and finally Current.

Are the old old old and old old still in existence?  By looking at a map, I don't see these routings.  Perhaps either Ventura Blvd or Ventura Fwy was built over the old alignments?

In some other cases like US 40 between Baltimore and Frederick, the old alignments are still there in some fashion, and are even drivable.

sdmichael

The old US 101 alignments are no longer there, except a modernized Ventura Blvd. There is, however, a c-monument still existing from the first or second alignments sticking out of the slope on the south side of Ventura Blvd. Despite all the development, it remains. I'll have to see if I have a photo on my site.



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