What do you think are scams?

[thspfc]

Strong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome

You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

Not the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.

Strong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome

You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?

I do, yes.

You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?

Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality.  I heard it all my life.  I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't.  I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me.  "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."

So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?

Wow 😬

[abefroman329]

And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.

Yeah.

Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."

You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.

You say that now, but once an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards recreate the works of Shakespeare.

[ethanhopkin14]

Who's fault is that John has IQ of 140 and Jim is only 90?  That Jay suffers from muscular degradation and Jack can win heavy lifting competition with little training? That Bob struggles with hand-eye coordination, and Tom can thread the needle with his eyes closed?
I don't know how to answer those questions. I don't know how ideal society would look like. 
I am very willing to provoke others to express their thought though

I was going to let this comment go because there's obviously a lot of gray area here. But we can't just attribute everyone's successes and failures to genetics. Are some people naturally gifted? Yes. Are some people naturally at a significant disadvantage? Yes. But most people are neither. 9 times out of 10, our hypothetical fast food worker failed the computer class because he didn't work hard enough at it.

Working hard is a scam.

And the better option is?

arson

Drugs....definitely drugs.

[thspfc]

I think a huge factor in all of this that's not being acknowledged is a big fat dose of luck. No matter how skilled or well-off someone may start out, it always requires some level of luck to be able to become successful or make huge money. Even many rich singers/social media influencers/CEOs probably didn't expect for their company/talent/social media channel to explode the way it did. Sometimes it's just like hitting the lottery, just with easier odds than mega millions.

The answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices

[abefroman329]

Not the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.

OK, since you decided to insert yourself in a conversation that was never directed at you to begin with, who gets to decide who is "born genuinely disadvantaged" and who isn't?

[abefroman329]

The answer is obviously between the two extremes. I think it's a lot more chance than it is choices

FWIW, I don't disagree with any of this.  The answer is almost always in the mushball middle.

[thspfc]

Not the OP, but wow, way to miss the point. I already set aside people who were born genuinely disadvantaged.

OK, since you decided to insert yourself in a conversation that was never directed at you to begin with, who gets to decide who is "born genuinely disadvantaged" and who isn't?

Why is that an important question to this conversation? I'm just sharing my opinions, not trying to change the world. I'd say any of the following makes you "genuinely disadvantaged":

a) born with a major disability (we don't need to go through every genetic condition here)

b) born into poverty (don't be like "well someone making $1 above the poverty line isn't genuinely disadvantaged then?" it's a spectrum)

c) victim of a tragic event (i.e. natural disaster, debilitating car crash or other accident, etc.)

d) probably other things I'm not thinking of

[JayhawkCO]

I know of no non-intoxicating recreational uses for weed. You don't smoke it because you like the aroma. You smoke it to get high.

Nonsense - in fact, if you use medical cannabis as prescribed, you won't get high.

You, and one other poster who responded, missed the word in bold in my quote above. Recreational. That, by definition, excludes any medical uses.

As I wrote above, I like the smell and taste of weed. And I don't remember the last time I was "high". Just as you could have a beer, not be drunk, but tell that you have ingested alcohol, I can take a hit of my vape pen and pleasantly go on with my day (or more probably, night) without being dramatically intoxicated.

certainly rings the bell with the trends which lead to Prohibition...

Can you expound? I don't understand what you're getting at.

[kalvado]

Strong accommodation removes incentives to push hard for better outcome

You believe that quadriplegics need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

You do realize that's an expression and never meant to be taken verbatim literally?

I do, yes.

You do realize that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a physical impossibility and was intended to satirize people who think hard work, and hard work alone, will get you out of poverty?

Yes I read that article about that subject that is the internet's newest fetish to try to discredit something on a technicality.  I heard it all my life.  I never cared if you can pull your bootstraps up by yourself or not or the physicaly ablitiy to do so and I still don't.  I know what my dad was saying to me when he yelled it to me.  "Stop being lazy, feeling sorry for yourself and go do something about it."

So...quadriplegics just need to stop being lazy and feeling sorry for themselves, and they need to go do something about it?

Well, sure. It may be not very efficient, though. 
Overall, I don't know. Neither did Stephen Hawking...

Another extreme is someone refusing to go to work in mid-2022 because of covid fears.

[MikieTimT]

And of course you can work hard and apply yourself and not give up for years and get exactly jack squat out of it.

Yeah.

Also, banging on a keyboard isn't "hard work."

You're even less likely to be successful doing hard physical work than you are banging on a keyboard.

Trades seem quite profitable nowadays.

Supply and demand again.  I've got 3 kids, one of which will be out of high school in 3.5 years.  Told them all that I wouldn't bat an eye for them to use their somewhat meager college fund for trade school instead.

College is the scam nowadays.  Most everything of substance can be learned on a curriculum focused on the desired career choice, or better yet, under an apprenticeship to learn on the job.

[MultiMillionMiler]

I went to college for free and still think it was a waste of time. Paying for it is definitely a scam.

[hbelkins]

I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.

I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.

I don't think unions are scams, they're more like cults. The amount of groupthink exhibited by union loyalists boggles the mind. There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.

[US 89]

I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.

Not if you get paid to get them.

[Scott5114]

There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.

Now why would an organization formed for the purpose of establishing a collective bargaining agreement emphasize the collective?

[jeffandnicole]

I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.

I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.

We had a few people get masters degrees over the past few years, and then they expect to be promoted, except the promotional title doesn't need a masters, and they don't have the experience within the organization to get the promotion, so they are stuck in their same position making the same amount of money.

[JoePCool14]

I don't think going to college in my case was a scam. If you go to a school that costs less, and even better, go community college for the first two years, and choose a degree worth pursuing (i.e., engineering in my case), it's worth it.

Most universities still charge atrociously high amounts though.

[triplemultiplex]

A few more scams:

pay day loans
numerology
whenever something says "real" food or "real" ingredients
lie detectors
plastic recycling is a scam by the plastics industry to externalize the disposal cost of their products
corn ethanol as a motor fuel

[hotdogPi]

Most universities still charge atrociously high amounts though.

I've noticed that the better schools charge less.

My total student debt for UMass Lowell, which is about average in quality and cost for the average person, is about $39,000. This includes graduate school, but it's less than most other people because I lived at home rather than there and had free tuition (about 1/5 of the total cost), several grants, and $5000 from something I won in high school that was a combination of academic achievement and being low-income.

MIT says that if someone can't afford it, they'll cover it. Being low-income at the time, I likely would have spent less there if I had gotten in.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, schools like the University of Phoenix let almost anyone in but cost quite a lot.

[kphoger]

plastic recycling is a scam by the plastics industry to externalize the disposal cost of their products

People appear to have finally learned this.

[abefroman329]

pay day loans

Anything that preys on the poor, really.  People can slam "woke capitalism" all they want, but if it leads to banks having a meaningful presence in majority-minority neighborhoods, that's fine by me. 

corn ethanol as a motor fuel

I mean, farm subsidies are a scam, but if we must have them, then I'd rather turn the corn into fuel than high-fructose corn syrup.

[abefroman329]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, schools like the University of Phoenix let almost anyone in but cost quite a lot.

For-profit colleges and universities are a scam.

[abefroman329]

I don't know if college is a scam, but advanced degrees often are.

I have a master's in communications and I don't know that it has materially improved my life over merely having a bachelor's degree.

My MBA has helped me get a few jobs where I didn't have the extensive background in financial services my coworkers have.  But I concentrated in management, and have yet to manage anyone, so.

There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.

One would hope.

[ethanhopkin14]

merely having a bachelor's degree.

I admire the humble brag.

I don't think unions are scams, they're more like cults. The amount of groupthink exhibited by union loyalists boggles the mind. There's definitely an emphasis on the collective as opposed to the individual.

Unions to me are exactly like HOAs.  Both were more than needed for their time and place and through time have both amassed so much power they abuse it.  They are still warranted today, but maybe not in their current capacity. 

[Roadgeek Adam]

My Masters hasn't gotten me a job yet, 5 years later. But I don't blame the education. I'm terrible at promoting myself. I stutter and ramble during job interviews. Nerves and autism make me very hard to market.

[kphoger]

corn ethanol as a motor fuel

I mean, farm subsidies are a scam, but if we must have them, then I'd rather turn the corn into fuel than high-fructose corn syrup.

I'd rather not promote a fuel that increases the profitability of rainforest deforestation.