Traffic lights in total rural areas

[KEK Inc.]

Roundabouts aren't the end-all solution.  They're better in suburban applications, since they're cheaper than traffic signals (though a modified ROW is required), and often direct constant streams of traffic better. 

In rural settings with two high speed highways, you'd benefit more with a signal in my opinion, especially if one corridor has priority.

Anywho,  here's a few:

CA-33 & CA-41
http://goo.gl/maps/XKbwY

CA-33 & CA-46
http://goo.gl/maps/s0YkC

[jakeroot]

Roundabouts aren't the end-all solution.  They're better in suburban applications, since they're cheaper than traffic signals (though a modified ROW is required), and often direct constant streams of traffic better. 

Anywho,  here's a few:

CA-33 & CA-41
http://goo.gl/maps/XKbwY

CA-33 & CA-46
http://goo.gl/maps/s0YkC

With that said, what do you think of the series of roundabouts along Guide Meridian Rd (Highway 539) north of Bellingham? There's four roundabouts in a row. I drive through them once in a while, and never have I thought a signal would be better. Definitely a pretty rural area. Trucks use the route a lot going to BC, so there's that.

In rural settings with two high speed highways, you'd benefit more with a signal in my opinion, especially if one corridor has priority.

So Ten Mile Rd (pictured above) does not intersect a high-speed road, but this roundabout south of Arlington (SR 9 at 172nd) does:



Yes, it's a rendering, but we both know it was built.

[Alps]

If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.

[KEK Inc.]

This is silly.  Why would a high speed highway and what seems like a minor road require a roundabout?  A stop sign would suffice for the minor road or maybe a traffic signal.  Traffic signals, while a little more expensive (with maintenance of course) still favors better traffic flow for preferred routes.  This slows the preferred route.

So Ten Mile Rd (pictured above) does not intersect a high-speed road, but this roundabout south of Arlington (SR 9 at 172nd) does:



Yes, it's a rendering, but we both know it was built.

WSDOT is recently obsessed with roundabouts, so yes I believe it.  It's a better application when both roads have the same priority, but I wouldn't use it on high speed roadways.

[agentsteel53]

If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.

there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph.  not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.

as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual.  then the difference is glaring.

[KEK Inc.]

If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.

there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph.  not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.

as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual.  then the difference is glaring.

Even equipped with a truck apron, it makes for awkward situations with big rigs.

[PColumbus73]

If the radius were the same as a modern cloverleaf ramp, and other factors supported it, I think it would be feasible to have a larger roundabout in areas such as KEK's picture of the CA 33 & CA 41 junction.

Here's a roundabout at US 378 and SC 391 in South Carolina:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lexington,+sc&ll=34.042756,-81.543698&spn=0.002912,0.004823&hnear=Lexington,+Lexington+County,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=18

[jakeroot]

If the radius were the same as a modern cloverleaf ramp, and other factors supported it, I think it would be feasible to have a larger roundabout in areas such as KEK's picture of the CA 33 & CA 41 junction.

Here's a roundabout at US 378 and SC 391 in South Carolina:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=lexington,+sc&ll=34.042756,-81.543698&spn=0.002912,0.004823&hnear=Lexington,+Lexington+County,+South+Carolina&t=h&z=18

Strictly speaking, that's a traffic circle, not a roundabout. The problem with the bigger roundabouts is that people forget their lack of priority and just go screaming into them at 40 miles an hour, which defeats the safety aspect of roundabouts (injury collision likely). Modern roundabouts are small enough to make sure people slow down enough that they don't have to stop (gas saving and safety feature) but are large enough to make sure trucks and other large vehicles can manage them without too much difficulty.

Take this roundabout near Monroe, WA as an example:



It's large enough to comfortably accommodate large trucks, but small enough (with enough deflection at the entry points) to slow traffic to a pace more in-tune with modern roundabouts (with all the safety benefits in tow). It's worth noting that this roundabout (SR 522 @ Main Street) was one of the very first roundabouts in Washington State. It's also my favorite roundabout in the whole of the US.

Another really nice set of roundabouts near Lacey, WA. They're nice in the same way as the roundabout above. Both one-way couplets meet at roundabouts on either side of the city:

[hbelkins]

This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o

[froggie]

When I still lived in Minnesota, we took a drive west of the Cities one day and I found a traffic signal at MN-7 and U.S. 71, south of Willmar. It seemed like an unnecessary installation for the volume of traffic on either road. I remember it as being a box spanwire installation, but looking at GSV just now, http://goo.gl/maps/XlxxD I noticed it's still there and is a typical Minnesota mastarm installation. It looks like a roundabout would be a better idea for this intersection rather than the signal or the 4-way stop that likely preceded it.

DandyDan mentioned US 14/US 71.  There's also US 75/US 212 which is just as rural.  All three locations are, IMO, candidates for roundabouts.

[jakeroot]

This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o

The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?

[hbelkins]

This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o

The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?

Are you asking if they buy more ROW than they need in case future expansion is done, or if they actually build projects large to use up that ROW?

[jakeroot]

This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o

The size of the roundabout reminded me of a question I wanted to ask you (as you are a DOT employee). Do DOTs sometimes build things large on purpose to preserve future right-of-way?

Are you asking if they buy more ROW than they need in case future expansion is done, or if they actually build projects large to use up that ROW?

Kind of both. My thought is that they buy AND use all the available right of way, because the way I think of it, the closer the roads and such come to the edge of the ROW, the harder it is for somebody else to buy that land (like a restaurant wanting to expand a parking lot). I have no experience in land buying, but I'd imagine land in use is more expensive to acquire then empty land (obviously).

[KEK Inc.]

There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens.  Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.

[jakeroot]

There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens.  Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.

That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.

[Alps]

If you wouldn't put a stop sign on the road, don't put a roundabout on it. Because it's essentially the same in terms of having to slow down from high speed to near zero.

there are high-speed multilane roundabouts that can be safely navigated at around 35mph.  not much in the US, but in Europe for sure.

as for "essentially the same" ... not if you drive manual.  then the difference is glaring.

Assume that you will have to yield when you get the roundabout. That's what I'm saying.

[KEK Inc.]

There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens.  Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.

That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.

Well not only that, but every business at Dollar's Corner (WA-502 & NE 72nd Ave) got screwed.  A vintage burger place I liked closed due to the highway.

[MDOTFanFB]

There's this three-way beacon at M-53 and M-90 northwest of Brown City, MI that's completely surrounded by farmland.

[JREwing78]

Blinker lights are all over the place in rural Michigan, even in the UP.

Something like this, however, is less common: M-43 @ M-40, Paw Paw, MI

[jakeroot]

There's a lot of politics with imminent domain, but it happens.  Look at WA-502 between I-5 and Battle Ground, WA.

That seems absolutely ridiculous. But it certainly visualises what I was trying to get at. A trumpet would have worked just fine. BUT of course they had to work in a rest stop. Now I'm not so sure.

Well not only that, but every business at Dollar's Corner (WA-502 & NE 72nd Ave) got screwed.  A vintage burger place I liked closed due to the highway.

I only just noticed thanks to historical imagery that this interchange was only built a few years ago. WTF?

[realjd]

This one in Kansas threw me for a loop. I'd think a four-way stop, a traffic light, or two-way stops on the intersecting route would be sufficient, rather than them having spent the money to turn this into a roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/FSr0o

I'm of the opinion that every 4 way stop should be replaced with a roundabout. I hate them. Being forced to come to a complete stop (or risk a ticket) even though I can see no cars coming for miles always annoys me.

I don't know why that one is so large though. You'd think a much smaller roundabout would have been enough.

I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.

[jakeroot]

I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.

The only one that I know of that is really a direct pull from England is in Dimondale, Michigan:

Creyts Rd @ E Rd



Literally I mean look at the bollard. Not only is it the same bollard from England, it has the same "keep left/right" sign as from England. Obviously they forgot about the MUTCD "keep right" sign and replaced it soon after. This was from the age before mini roundabouts had a US standard, so they had to go somewhere to get the right geometry and England was that source. It opened in May 2001.

[doorknob60]

US-395 and CA-58: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.991714,-117.541412,3a,75y,342.41h,94.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEGxW7As_TXAjKuQ9LTVSNQ!2e0?hl=en
It may not look like a rural area from the street view, but it most certainly is. It's just such a major junction that truck stops, gas stations, and fast food decided to show up there.

[flowmotion]

I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.

They tried them in San Francisco (on "The Wiggle" bike route), and too many drivers would simply fail to yield.

I don't know if they were really "UK style" though, the intersections are much smaller than the one Jake posted. (Here's where I almost died twice: https://goo.gl/maps/wmLKn )

[realjd]

I like the UK-style mini-roundabouts and wish we'd use them in low traffic areas but I haven't see one in the US.

They tried them in San Francisco (on "The Wiggle" bike route), and too many drivers would simply fail to yield.

I don't know if they were really "UK style" though, the intersections are much smaller than the one Jake posted. (Here's where I almost died twice: https://goo.gl/maps/wmLKn )

Examples of what I'm talking about are here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Southampton/@50.900767,-1.390729,3a,75y,269.43h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s706kLTTKYCIbK0AbSofzOQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x48738957be152909:0xa78c5a6a4cda71f0
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9017,-1.390937,3a,75y,359.01h,89.08t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sp-9rIL0c0bw5ecBJQcgqVQ!2e0

Were they well marked?