Worst Christmas Song

[freebrickproductions]

Dominick the Donkey is one of my favorite Christmas songs.

Never heard of that one. My two favorites are "The Night Santa Went Crazy" and "Christmas at Ground Zero"

Christmas at Ground Zero is easily one of the best, if not the best, Christmas song ever written.

"It's Christmas at ground zero! The button has been pressed. The radio, just let us know, this is not a test..."

[1995hoo]

I could ask them, "Why don't you read the Bible in it's original Hebrew and Greek, ..."

Obvious answer:  none of the originals have survived, so far as we know.   

what is your preferred shorthand

Some of the Orthodox Churches

That's the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church", not shorthand for referring to the people therein.

I would quibble with that. Saying "the Russian Orthodox Church" or "the Finnish Orthodox Church" or whatever is the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church." Notwithstanding common American misusage, the "Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church" are not the same thing.

[Scott5114]

I could ask them, "Why don't you read the Bible in it's original Hebrew and Greek, ..."

Obvious answer:  none of the originals have survived, so far as we know.   

what is your preferred shorthand

Some of the Orthodox Churches

That's the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church", not shorthand for referring to the people therein.

I would quibble with that. Saying "the Russian Orthodox Church" or "the Finnish Orthodox Church" or whatever is the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church." Notwithstanding common American misusage, the "Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church" are not the same thing.

Is this what normal people argue about instead of control cities?

[jeffandnicole]

Last Christmas by Wham

Last Christmas

Ouch, I really like this song! Time to give it another listen.

I like that song too. In addition to the Wham original, the cast of Glee and Ariana Grande both have nice cover versions.

I'm not a fan of Last Christmas, but I am amused by participating in a pool of actuaries playing Whamageddon each holiday season.

I have a Christmas light display where people driving by can tune to a radio station I'm broadcasting from my computer (90.7 FM).  Last Christmas is one of those songs, so I'm out of this game before the season even begins.

[LilianaUwU]

Dominick the Donkey is one of my favorite Christmas songs.

Never heard of that one. My two favorites are "The Night Santa Went Crazy" and "Christmas at Ground Zero"

Christmas at Ground Zero is easily one of the best, if not the best, Christmas song ever written.

"It's Christmas at ground zero! The button has been pressed. The radio, just let us know, this is not a test..."

Since I was on the topic of SiIvaGunner earlier in this thread, and Christmas at Ground Zero was brought up, anyone remember Diddy Kong Racing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95M6T2bvs1A

[tmoore952]

I could ask them, "Why don't you read the Bible in it's original Hebrew and Greek, ..."

Obvious answer:  none of the originals have survived, so far as we know.   

what is your preferred shorthand

Some of the Orthodox Churches

That's the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church", not shorthand for referring to the people therein.

I would quibble with that. Saying "the Russian Orthodox Church" or "the Finnish Orthodox Church" or whatever is the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church." Notwithstanding common American misusage, the "Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church" are not the same thing.

Is this what normal people argue about instead of control cities?

Thank you so much for saying that. It was my post that started this whole discussion -- which I subsequently deleted, because someone thought I didn't say something in a politically correct way.

As far as this subject is concerned, I'm out. I don't feel the need to share my opinions about this here anymore.

[epzik8]

Dominick the Donkey is one of my favorite Christmas songs.

Never heard of that one.

You'll either love it or hate it.  But, with any luck, even if you hate it, it'll grow on you.

I first heard it just two years ago and wondered why I went so long without hearing it.

[Georgia Guardrail]

Definitely "All I want for Christmas is you" Mariah Carey...and the stupid Chipmunks Carol.

[hbelkins]

"Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" and that God-awful John Lennon song.

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

[NWI_Irish96]

"Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" and that God-awful John Lennon song.

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

There's not really a market for "winter songs". People generally either listen to year-round music or Christmas music, so you're only going to hear winter themed songs in a mix with Christmas songs.

[kphoger]

Is this what normal people argue about instead of control cities?

No.  I have never been, nor have I ever pretended to be, normal.

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

[JayhawkCO]

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Despite just barely sneaking into winter.

[kphoger]

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Despite just barely sneaking into winter.

Historically speaking, that might not even be an accident.  The historical evidence suggests a possible reason for the date of Christmas being that a handful of ancient Christian theologians believed (1) Jesus had been conceived on the same date as his later death, (2) he died on the spring equinox, (3) he had therefore been conceived on the spring equinox, (4) the equinoxes and solstices fell on the 25th of the month, and (5) Jesus was therefore born on December 25.  The wrinkle is that I haven't found any evidence to suggest that the same theologians who believed (1) also believed (2)—especially those who were writing before the December 25 date had already been established.

[JayhawkCO]

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Despite just barely sneaking into winter.

Historically speaking, that might not even be an accident.  The historical evidence suggests a possible reason for the date of Christmas being that a handful of ancient Christian theologians believed (1) Jesus had been conceived on the same date as his later death, (2) he died on the spring equinox, (3) he had therefore been conceived on the spring equinox, (4) the equinoxes and solstices fell on the 25th of the month, and (5) Jesus was therefore born on December 25.  The wrinkle is that I haven't found any evidence to suggest that the same theologians who believed (1) also believed (2)—especially those who were writing before the December 25 date had already been established.

Seems... convenient. I'll leave it at that.

[Rothman]

Is this what normal people argue about instead of control cities?

No.  I have never been, nor have I ever pretended to be, normal.

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Here comes Peter Cottontail...

[Rothman]

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Despite just barely sneaking into winter.

Historically speaking, that might not even be an accident.  The historical evidence suggests a possible reason for the date of Christmas being that a handful of ancient Christian theologians believed (1) Jesus had been conceived on the same date as his later death, (2) he died on the spring equinox, (3) he had therefore been conceived on the spring equinox, (4) the equinoxes and solstices fell on the 25th of the month, and (5) Jesus was therefore born on December 25.  The wrinkle is that I haven't found any evidence to suggest that the same theologians who believed (1) also believed (2)—especially those who were writing before the December 25 date had already been established.

Jesus was born on April 6th.

[JayhawkCO]

Is this what normal people argue about instead of control cities?

No.  I have never been, nor have I ever pretended to be, normal.

I've often wondered why songs like "Jingle Bells," "Let It Snow," "Over The River and Through The Woods" and similar tunes are considered Christmas songs. They're more winter songs than Christmas songs.

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Here comes Peter Cottontail...

[formulanone]

Christmas is THE winter holiday, and pretty much the only holiday that has popular music dedicated to it.

Despite just barely sneaking into winter.

Historically speaking, that might not even be an accident.  The historical evidence suggests a possible reason for the date of Christmas being that a handful of ancient Christian theologians believed (1) Jesus had been conceived on the same date as his later death, (2) he died on the spring equinox, (3) he had therefore been conceived on the spring equinox, (4) the equinoxes and solstices fell on the 25th of the month, and (5) Jesus was therefore born on December 25.  The wrinkle is that I haven't found any evidence to suggest that the same theologians who believed (1) also believed (2)—especially those who were writing before the December 25 date had already been established.

Seems... convenient. I'll leave it at that.

(6) Sol Invictus says hi.

[fhmiii]

By the way, it makes me happy that we're this far into the thread and nobody has nominated Dominick the Donkey.  I can only presume this means everyone considers it to be an excellent Christmas song.

I've been looking for this song and cannot comprehend how it's not been mentioned yet.  I can only assume that's because it has never been widely promoted outside of the Northeast (and specifically, New York/New Jersey/Connecticut), where it enjoys a large audience of people who are ethnically Italian.

As Christmas songs go, it is by far the worst.  And in that I put it ahead of "Feliz Navidad" which is objectively terrible in every respect from its simplistic, overly-repetitive lyrics to its gaudy musical style (just because it's in Spanish is no excuse for making music that is a literal assault on atmospheric molecules).

My friend Amelia put together her list of the worst 5 Christmas songs years ago, and it's an epic takedown of many of the worst... though she didn't include "Dominic the Donkey" and I chide her about that every year.  https://thefederalist.com/2016/12/14/5-christmas-songs-no-one-ever-sing/

[fhmiii]

I could ask them, "Why don't you read the Bible in it's original Hebrew and Greek, ..."

Obvious answer:  none of the originals have survived, so far as we know.   

what is your preferred shorthand

Some of the Orthodox Churches

That's the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church", not shorthand for referring to the people therein.

I would quibble with that. Saying "the Russian Orthodox Church" or "the Finnish Orthodox Church" or whatever is the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church." Notwithstanding common American misusage, the "Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church" are not the same thing.

This is correct.  The Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and several other churches all consider themselves part of the "Catholic Church tradition," but not members of the "Roman Catholic Church."  The latter is defined by their ecclesiastical and hierarchical fealty to the Bishop of Rome, and the former by their generalized acceptance of foundational Western Christian ideology but their rejection of the Pope as the leader of the "One True Church" and rejection of many of what they consider "false teachings" by the Roman Catholic Church.

[kphoger]

(6) Sol Invictus says hi.

It's a possibility, but one that is also not supported by historical documents that both (1) pre-date December 25 being on the calendar as Christmas and (2) are an authentic work by the person to whom it is ascribed.

I've studied this subject in quite a bit of depth, and the disappointing conclusion I've come to is that neither the conspiracy nor non-conspiracy theories for the date of Christmas can be definitively corroborated by the historical record.  The documents most commonly used in support of both sides' arguments can be debunked as unreliable for the subject at hand.  In fact, if you're really interested, I have a 22-page paper on the topic here on my work computer hard drive, that I wrote for fun about three years ago;  the conclusions I drew over the course of that study are more nuanced and equivocal than most people seem to want, but sometimes the truth is just not as easy to pin down as we'd like it to be.

Jesus was born on April 6th.

There are decent arguments for a few different dates but, in my opinion, they all stretch things a bit too far.

One intriguing line of thought is to treat the first several verses of Revelation 12 as astronomical sightings;  reading that chapter it in this way, interpreting the Christmas star in Matthew 2 as an astronomical even in which Jupiter and Regulus appeared to unite, and plotting it all against the ecliptic, can yield a potential birthdate of September 11, 3 BC—which just happened to be Rosh Hashanah.

"a woman clothed with the sun ... the moon under her feet ... the dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth" (Rev 12)

"Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose ..." (Matt 2)

"the Lion of the tribe of Judah" (Rev 5)

[kphoger]

For what it's worth, this is edging into Religion territory, so let's call it quits on the whole "Jesus' birthday" thing.  If anyone is interested in talking more about it with me, then just send me a PM.

[fhmiii]

For what it's worth, this is edging into Religion territory, so let's call it quits on the whole "Jesus' birthday" thing.  If anyone is interested in talking more about it with me, then just send me a PM.

I can likewise offer some private commentary on why Christmas is celebrated in December if anyone is interested.  Suffice to say, most of what you'll find if you google it is anachronistic and probably wrong; there is at least some Biblical reasoning behind it; and any mortal being who knew with any reasonable degree of certainty the date of Jesus of Nazareth's birth has been dead for nearly two millennia.

What's not up for debate is that most Christmas music is objectively terrible, though some songs are (much) worse than others.

[1995hoo]

I could ask them, "Why don't you read the Bible in it's original Hebrew and Greek, ..."

Obvious answer:  none of the originals have survived, so far as we know.   

what is your preferred shorthand

Some of the Orthodox Churches

That's the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church", not shorthand for referring to the people therein.

I would quibble with that. Saying "the Russian Orthodox Church" or "the Finnish Orthodox Church" or whatever is the equivalent of saying "the Roman Catholic Church." Notwithstanding common American misusage, the "Catholic Church" and the "Roman Catholic Church" are not the same thing.

This is correct.  The Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and several other churches all consider themselves part of the "Catholic Church tradition," but not members of the "Roman Catholic Church."  The latter is defined by their ecclesiastical and hierarchical fealty to the Bishop of Rome, and the former by their generalized acceptance of foundational Western Christian ideology but their rejection of the Pope as the leader of the "One True Church" and rejection of many of what they consider "false teachings" by the Roman Catholic Church.

I further disagree with that description because what Protestants wrongly call the "Roman Catholic Church" is far broader than that. The Catholic Church includes various other groups who are in union with the Pope, including a bunch of Eastern Catholic Churches (the umbrella term "Byzantine Catholic" is one you see now and then, but there is also the Melkite Catholic Church, the Maronite Church, and various others). I once served as an altar server at a Ukrainian Catholic liturgy when a Ukrainian priest visited when I was a student at Duke. They asked me if I'd serve because I had been to Eastern Catholic liturgies before and thus had a better idea of what was involved than the other students did.

Many Americans are surprised to learn that the Eastern Catholic Churches do not necessarily require priestly celibacy (though they do require it for bishops).

We probably ought to drop this discussion, though, consistent with kphoger's point. It probably violates forum guidelines. I minored in religious studies in college, so I find this sort of thing really interesting, but I know not everyone does.

[SectorZ]

Has anyone picked whatever the thing is the alpacas start dancing to in the Amazon holiday ad.