Traffic signal

[mrsman]

T-intersection, the left lane turns left only, the right lane turns right only.  Yet there are two left turn light assemblies and only one for the right lane and turn.  I thought the right turn was supposed to get the redundancy.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/wemEMqtz6B6n3tcKA

I assume the left turn is the prevailing movement here. MUTCD says if there is not a through movement on an approach, then the dominant movement must have two primary signal faces.

In my view, though, every signalized movement should have at least two signal faces for redundancy.

I agree that there should be more redundancy for each shown movement.  I'm not sure of what the MUTCD now requires, but a lot of this can be done with fewer signal faces, but more light bulbs.  One possibility is to show two doghouses (Red orb, Y left arrow, Y right arrow, G left arrow, G right arrow).  Red orb is lit, unless both of the other arrows are either yellow or green.  Another possibility is three signal faces, with left and right as existing and the middle signal face being the doghouse I describe above.

[SignBridge]

The MUTCD requires a minimum of two signal heads for the through movement, but not for other movements even when a turning movement might actually be the predominant movement. The number of heads for turning movements is left up to engineering judgment.

[jeffandnicole]

There's this signal on Salem CR 605 (Swedesboro Road) to a connector road (High Bridge Bypass Road) to NJ 45: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UsGBRtZUdDj4SfU8A  Click forwards or backwards to see the different sets of arrows flash.

The 2 signals in front flash left yellow arrows; the 3 signals in the back flash red left arrows.  The purpose is to encourage traffic to turn left without proceeding straight into a dead end.

The last few times I've been down here, only the yellow arrows were flashing.  Either the red arrows were turned off, or not working.

[Revive 755]

^ see.

The MUTCD requires a minimum of two signal heads for the through movement, but not for other movements even when a turning movement might actually be the predominant movement. The number of heads for turning movements is left up to engineering judgment.

That is unless the new 2023 Manual says something different. Anybody know for sure?

Doesn't look like the new version has changed much from the 2009 version in regards to the number of heads for turns with no through lanes.

A. If a signalized motor vehicle through movement exists on an approach, a minimum of two primary
signal faces shall be provided for the through movement. Except for single lane approaches, if a signalized motor vehicle through movement does not exist on an approach, a minimum of two primary signal faces shall be provided for the signalized motor vehicle turning movement that is considered to be the major movement from the approach (also see Section 4F.16).

Except for single-lane approaches, a minimum of two primary signal faces shall be provided for the signalized turning movement that is considered to be the major movement from the approach (see Section 4D.05).

- -

I agree that there should be more redundancy for each shown movement.  I'm not sure of what the MUTCD now requires, but a lot of this can be done with fewer signal faces, but more light bulbs.  One possibility is to show two doghouses (Red orb, Y left arrow, Y right arrow, G left arrow, G right arrow).  Red orb is lit, unless both of the other arrows are either yellow or green.  Another possibility is three signal faces, with left and right as existing and the middle signal face being the doghouse I describe above.

If you change the middle head to a doghouse there's a greater risk someone will get confused and treat the left lane as also allowing right turns, especially if the arrows on the pavement fade or are otherwise hard to see.

[mrsman]

There's this signal on Salem CR 605 (Swedesboro Road) to a connector road (High Bridge Bypass Road) to NJ 45: https://maps.app.goo.gl/UsGBRtZUdDj4SfU8A  Click forwards or backwards to see the different sets of arrows flash.

The 2 signals in front flash left yellow arrows; the 3 signals in the back flash red left arrows.  The purpose is to encourage traffic to turn left without proceeding straight into a dead end.

The last few times I've been down here, only the yellow arrows were flashing.  Either the red arrows were turned off, or not working.

I would think that red arrows are a problem as they would imply a stopping condition.

[CJResotko]

A flashing green beacon in Coal Grove, Ohio.
https://youtu.be/V992LDXgrm0?si=9a-aSrIMcJIwqcei

[freebrickproductions]

Apparently, there are a lot of abandoned worded pedestrian signals within the town of Bellaire, Ohio.
The intersections they're at used to be controlled by traffic signals, but they all got removed sometime between 2009 and 2015, and they left the pedestrian signals behind (along with overhead signs at some intersections). I found 9 intersections that are like this!
Here's just one of them: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0119205,-80.7441845,3a,15y,82.84h,93.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfbZcXniGb53uaVDOOc5ypw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Seen a few like that here in Alabama. Also seen them abandoned at intersections where the traffic lights are still in use!

I wonder if you can contact the city and ask if you could "dis-assemble" one for a small donation to the city?

I've honestly thought about doing that for this for a couple of abandoned signals in my area, such as this fiber-optic Winkomatic signal in Attalla, AL, or one of these Krossgard signals in Albertville, AL.

Personally, those are a little too modern for my tastes.  I would jump at the chance if they were older metal crossing fixtures.

TBF, they are aluminum, but they are 12 inch LFE peds. Not that I wouldn't mind one myself, of course.

[steviep24]

A few remaining all incandescent traffic signals in the Rochester, NY area. These signals are at Hard Rd at NY 104 in Webster, NY. These somehow fell through the cracks since just about all traffic signals in the Rochester, NY area were converted to LED many years ago.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2139168,-77.4613149,3a,37.5y,174.21h,95.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sf4h7JYgG1gL8S6bbw0HIFg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Df4h7JYgG1gL8S6bbw0HIFg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D174.20584517012486%26pitch%3D-5.557838156504886%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2144099,-77.4612269,3a,37.5y,352.2h,89.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOsfee-PZNPQWkNzW2Cer1Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DOsfee-PZNPQWkNzW2Cer1Q%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D352.19780306486757%26pitch%3D0.05496010813719465%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

[SilverMustang2011]

This signal in the depths of urban Jacksonville was removed sometime between 2011 and 2013 but this may have been the oldest operating signal in Florida, and one of the few single-light intersections in the state, before that: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z4BP8Vw22xYS5vFGA

It also appears to have been converted to at least partial LED before being removed.

[freebrickproductions]

A Crouse-hinds Art-deco 4-way! Not aware of many others down there, definitely a shame it's gone now.

And it appears that was fully LED prior to removal. A shame they didn't just double it up with a few extra heads.

[SilverMustang2011]

A Crouse-hinds Art-deco 4-way! Not aware of many others down there, definitely a shame it's gone now.

And it appears that was fully LED prior to removal. A shame they didn't just double it up with a few extra heads.

You'd know more about how old that signal was than me, but it's crazy that it survived with all the changes around it (I-95 and I-10, the neighborhood decay, etc.)

It's unfortunate that the light wasn't in the gentrified part of Brooklyn, because if it was better known someone may have wanted to preserve it (Even if it was just a display) when they started rebuilding that area. Then again, Jacksonville is only just now actively trying to build a history center, so maybe not.

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.

Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

[Big John]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.

Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

There may be a couple semis blocking the view if the signals on the mast arm so this may be the only visible signal.

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.

Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

There may be a couple semis blocking the view if the signals on the mast arm so this may be the only visible signal.

Be great if all states do this.^^^^^




https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/52133892553
I was going through my AL photos and noticed that Alabama uses flashers on on a two section signal head rather than two separate  one sections.

Is this still allowed by the MUTCD.

New Jersey uses these but with both flashing together. AL uses alternate flashing.

[freebrickproductions]

Double beacons are by and large the standard here, you can find some traditional one-section beacons though.

I believe they'll put up extra faces for roads that have two or more lanes on approach, but not always.

[roadman65]

Double beacons are by and large the standard here, you can find some traditional one-section beacons though.

I believe they'll put up extra faces for roads that have two or more lanes on approach, but not always.

I've seen that on US 231 at US 278. It's a four way stop ( or was in 2005) and both lanes of US 231 had separate flasher heads. When one was up, the other was down to give a zig zag effect to drivers.

[freebrickproductions]

Double beacons are by and large the standard here, you can find some traditional one-section beacons though.

I believe they'll put up extra faces for roads that have two or more lanes on approach, but not always.

I've seen that on US 231 at US 278. It's a four way stop ( or was in 2005) and both lanes of US 231 had separate flasher heads. When one was up, the other was down to give a zig zag effect to drivers.

They've replaced the signals there since, sadly. US 231 now only has one head per approach, though US 278 still retains two per approach. The next 4-way stop to the east of there however, US 278/AL 79, does retain one of those "quad-beacons" at it though.

Slightly unrelated, but Irondale also has this interesting beacon set-up. It normally flashes yellow, but when a car approaches, it starts flashing red. When I was there, the vehicular detection for it didn't entirely seem to be the best, especially if a car approached just as it was returning to the yellow flash.

[wanderer2575]

Slightly unrelated, but Irondale also has this interesting beacon set-up. It normally flashes yellow, but when a car approaches, it starts flashing red. When I was there, the vehicular detection for it didn't entirely seem to be the best, especially if a car approached just as it was returning to the yellow flash.

WTF??!  What's the point of a yellow flash phase if it will always change to red when a vehicle approaches?  And there isn't a programmed minimum delay between phases; gotta love how it changes to flashing yellow for a millisecond before going back to flashing red.  Has this thing induced any seizures?

[thenetwork]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.

Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

There may be a couple semis blocking the view if the signals on the mast arm so this may be the only visible signal.

Not to mention if you are driving into direct sunlight, you may not see the overhead signals either due to the glare or your sun visor. 

With a side-mounted signal at a lower angle, it gives a driver another safer option to view the light.

[mrsman]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.

Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

There may be a couple semis blocking the view if the signals on the mast arm so this may be the only visible signal.

Not to mention if you are driving into direct sunlight, you may not see the overhead signals either due to the glare or your sun visor. 

With a side-mounted signal at a lower angle, it gives a driver another safer option to view the light.

Many western states seem to have side mounted signals as a standard.  For the reasons you mentioned, I wished that it was a practice adopted everywhere. 

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53778107675
I was noticing that in Kansas their MUTCD requires a side mount signal on all signal installations that's mounted to the pole supporting the mast arm.


Does anyone know the rationale behind this?

There may be a couple semis blocking the view if the signals on the mast arm so this may be the only visible signal.

Not to mention if you are driving into direct sunlight, you may not see the overhead signals either due to the glare or your sun visor. 

With a side-mounted signal at a lower angle, it gives a driver another safer option to view the light.

Many western states seem to have side mounted signals as a standard.  For the reasons you mentioned, I wished that it was a practice adopted everywhere. 

California and Arizona I know use both a near and far sided side mounts on the right.

New Jersey ( and now Bucks County, PA) use a left side overhead on the opposing side mast arm providing a left turn signal isn't used.  That allows to see around the left of a semi in front of you.

The Garden State used to on divided highways post a median side mount and additional mast arm extending from the median to add additional signaling to give plenty vantage points.

Here's one still used in latest GSV imagery on US 9 in Monmouth County, NJ.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9SwRtPcJ4cqE6kS48
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2KdQmG9te8WPsCxh7

[steviep24]

Span wire traffic signals at JFK Airport. I found more but no need to post them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.659083,-73.7743048,3a,75y,233.78h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svCgDaQ-DquHxTZNKetQrfg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DvCgDaQ-DquHxTZNKetQrfg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D233.78072557271972%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.659642,-73.7760605,3a,75y,298.4h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgfO0CevE2q3wK1MvrD4n4A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DgfO0CevE2q3wK1MvrD4n4A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D298.40072557272026%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6606178,-73.7791055,3a,75y,298.4h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbcnMkzzYIgZiPGbiSAgBJw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbcnMkzzYIgZiPGbiSAgBJw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D298.40072557272026%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6631637,-73.7874493,3a,75y,283.89h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syC3M43w90mlEFIyB2eIuRQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DyC3M43w90mlEFIyB2eIuRQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D283.89425631831995%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/icPTWbnjs75b9bq26
Round backplates on Market Street in San Fran.

[SignBridge]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/icPTWbnjs75b9bq26
Round backplates on Market Street in San Fran.

Those have been there many years, probably since the 1980's if I recall.

[PColumbus73]

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6587756,-77.718321,3a,15y,187.98h,93.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZON4G_gGK5gJsR7NzFntIA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu

Saw this, a doghouse with a double green arrow in Hagerstown, MD