Wisconsin notes

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe if the previously proposed Foxconn plant had been completed as originally planned, the STH 311 designation might have had some merit. Now it seems like a useless spur route that could have easily been either an unnumbered route, or a county highway. In addition, since it parallels Interstate 41/94 just to the east, it seems like an unnecessary state highway designation.

[SEWIGuy]

It's really not that big of a deal. It's a state maintained route, so it may as well be signed.

[hobsini2]

It's really not that big of a deal. It's a state maintained route, so it may as well be signed.

The road itself is not a big deal but Foxconn at this point was a complete political sham with nothing to show for it. I don't believe we will ever see anything come of this that is for the good of the state and county. I hope there will be a developer who will step in and make it worth it.

[JREwing78]

It's really not that big of a deal. It's a state maintained route, so it may as well be signed.

The road itself is not a big deal but Foxconn at this point was a complete political sham with nothing to show for it. I don't believe we will ever see anything come of this that is for the good of the state and county. I hope there will be a developer who will step in and make it worth it.

Like Microsoft, for instance? https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/tech/microsoft-ai-wisconsin/index.html

[Big John]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

[SEWIGuy]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

[Stephane Dumas]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

I wonder if having a name like Shipwrecked might have been a bad omen for that microbrewery?

[SSOWorld]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

Yes and no.

A sidewalk is a type of pedestrian way.  In this case the pedway follows the street on the side, so... sidewalk.  Unfortunately, the politicians who wrote the state law do not agree.

[mgk920]

Just dedicate it as a very narrow street?

Mike

[JREwing78]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

Seems pedantic to me at first blush, but the distinction appears to be that the sidewalk is part of a public road, for which condemnation is allowed. It's not allowed if it's just a "pedestrian way" that has no connection to a roadway.

Shipwrecked clearly isn't a money-losing operation in any sense, seeing that they had the resources to litigate this to the WI Supreme Court. They lost a few outdoor seats in the process, but the new sidewalk is a massive improvement to what was there before (basically a patch of broken asphalt with telephone poles in the middle).

[mgk920]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

Seems pedantic to me at first blush, but the distinction appears to be that the sidewalk is part of a public road, for which condemnation is allowed. It's not allowed if it's just a "pedestrian way" that has no connection to a roadway.

Shipwrecked clearly isn't a money-losing operation in any sense, seeing that they had the resources to litigate this to the WI Supreme Court. They lost a few outdoor seats in the process, but the new sidewalk is a massive improvement to what was there before (basically a patch of broken asphalt with telephone poles in the middle).

I also anticipate that law being changed in due time.

Mike

[hobsini2]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

You mean Shipwrecked has gone down hill in the last decade? Too bad.

[midwesternroadguy]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

I wonder if having a name like Shipwrecked might have been a bad omen for that microbrewery?

It's a reference to the many shipwrecks that exist around the Door Peninsula (Death's Door).  This is something many tourists know about, and adds to the area's mystique. I doubt it's a deterrent for business. 

[mgk920]

State supreme court rules in Village of Egg Harbor land acquisition case ruling that a sidewalk and a pedestrian way are completely separate items: https://www.wbay.com/2024/06/19/is-it-sidewalk-or-pedestrian-way-wisconsin-supreme-court-settles-door-county-debate/
 

I have no idea if this is a good ruling or not, but I am happy because Shipwrecked may be the worst microbrewery in the entire state.

I wonder if having a name like Shipwrecked might have been a bad omen for that microbrewery?

It's a reference to the many shipwrecks that exist around the Door Peninsula (Death's Door).  This is something many tourists know about, and adds to the area's mystique. I doubt it's a deterrent for business.

That's why it's called 'Door County'.

 

Mike

[JREwing78]

A number of media outlets are posting similar "What's taking them so long" articles about the planned Buc-ee's in DeForest, but the Wisconsin State Journal is probably the best: https://madison.com/news/local/business/development/buc-ees-business-deforest-texas-travel-roads/article_fe1ae550-33dc-11ef-b03b-5f042aed731c.html

For the paywalled or TL/DR: Negotiations over who's paying what share for the road improvements needed for the area.

It would involve a new interchange at Exit 126 (County V), and improvements to County V and County I to the tune of $12 to $16 million. Apparently, both sides are balking at footing the bill, and Village officials are downplaying any possibility of Buc-ee's breaking ground this year.

[thspfc]

A number of media outlets are posting similar "What's taking them so long" articles about the planned Buc-ee's in DeForest, but the Wisconsin State Journal is probably the best: https://madison.com/news/local/business/development/buc-ees-business-deforest-texas-travel-roads/article_fe1ae550-33dc-11ef-b03b-5f042aed731c.html

For the paywalled or TL/DR: Negotiations over who's paying what share for the road improvements needed for the area.

It would involve a new interchange at Exit 126 (County V), and improvements to County V and County I to the tune of $12 to $16 million. Apparently, both sides are balking at footing the bill, and Village officials are downplaying any possibility of Buc-ee's breaking ground this year.

The corporation has the power in this situation. They'll threaten to call off the project altogether if the government doesn't contribute x amount to the roads. And the government will probably cave.

[SEWIGuy]

A number of media outlets are posting similar "What's taking them so long" articles about the planned Buc-ee's in DeForest, but the Wisconsin State Journal is probably the best: https://madison.com/news/local/business/development/buc-ees-business-deforest-texas-travel-roads/article_fe1ae550-33dc-11ef-b03b-5f042aed731c.html

For the paywalled or TL/DR: Negotiations over who's paying what share for the road improvements needed for the area.

It would involve a new interchange at Exit 126 (County V), and improvements to County V and County I to the tune of $12 to $16 million. Apparently, both sides are balking at footing the bill, and Village officials are downplaying any possibility of Buc-ee's breaking ground this year.

The corporation has the power in this situation. They'll threaten to call off the project altogether if the government doesn't contribute x amount to the roads. And the government will probably cave.

But I have no idea why they would. That interchange will be developed by someone at some point.

[JREwing78]

A number of media outlets are posting similar "What's taking them so long" articles about the planned Buc-ee's in DeForest, but the Wisconsin State Journal is probably the best: https://madison.com/news/local/business/development/buc-ees-business-deforest-texas-travel-roads/article_fe1ae550-33dc-11ef-b03b-5f042aed731c.html

For the paywalled or TL/DR: Negotiations over who's paying what share for the road improvements needed for the area.

It would involve a new interchange at Exit 126 (County V), and improvements to County V and County I to the tune of $12 to $16 million. Apparently, both sides are balking at footing the bill, and Village officials are downplaying any possibility of Buc-ee's breaking ground this year.

The corporation has the power in this situation. They'll threaten to call off the project altogether if the government doesn't contribute x amount to the roads. And the government will probably cave.

But I have no idea why they would. That interchange will be developed by someone at some point.

If Buc-ee's and the Village of DeForest do nothing, at some future point WisDOT will replace the overpass and rebuild the interchange on its own. "Some point" likely being 30+ years into the future - that's not the original overpass from the 1960s.

OK. Let's say DeForest doesn't play ball. Next best option would be Hwy 60, which *just* got a rebuilt interchange. Water, sewer, and power are the things that might be problematic, but hardly impossible to overcome.

County CS would be another candidate, but it's also getting awfully close to the Dells at this point and on the wrong side of WisDOT's rest areas. It also has the 1960's vintage interchange that would need to be rebuilt, and an existing Love's truck stop.

Hwy 19 or US-51 could possibly accommodate a Buc-ee's, but we're losing the visibility that the County V interchange offered. US-151/E Washington is overbuilt and overcrowded already. Any farther south and you lose the traffic coming in from I-94 in Milwaukee, at which point the numbers might stop making sense for Buc-ee's altogether.

The only remaining option for Buc-ee's would be to foot the bill for their own interchange between County V and Hwy 60, which they're definitely NOT going to do. Even a bad deal for the County V location would be better than that option. 

If I was on the village board in DeForest, I wouldn't be overly stressed about whether Buc-ee's decides to come or not. I definitely wouldn't bankrupt the village begging them to come. They'll come, or not, and DeForest will be fine.

[Stephane Dumas]

GSV show the view of Highland road interchange on I-43 open. https://maps.app.goo.gl/yidVF658vyb7yBY1A
However as I wrote this (July 4rd), GSV still hadn't updated Highland Road Streeview between Port Washington Rd. and I-43.

[Big John]

^^ Is 4rd Canadian for 4th?

Also 2 points: If a roadway has a secondary or honorary designation, Google Maps will use that instead of the primary designation (a gripe of mine). I scrolled ahead and saw the roadway name engraved on the bridge, commonly done on newer bridges, then there is the green sign next to it saying the same thing.  This sign is not necessary with the engraved name next to it.

[hobsini2]

^^ Is 4rd Canadian for 4th?

Also 2 points: If a roadway has a secondary or honorary designation, Google Maps will use that instead of the primary designation (a gripe of mine). I scrolled ahead and saw the roadway name engraved on the bridge, commonly done on newer bridges, then there is the green sign next to it saying the same thing.  This sign is not necessary with the engraved name next to it.

As much as I like the engraved look on the bridges for the road name, at night, you can't read it. That's my same problem with the ISTHA when they redid I-90. Looks nice in the daytime.

[peterj920]

Found an article on Madison.com talking about frequent rear end collisions at the Beltline/Verona Rd Interchange. Improvements coming soon or will the flyover ramp be expedited?

[JREwing78]

2030 was the date anticipated to build the freeway-to-freeway flyover ramps at Verona Rd, but I wouldn't hold your breath. With WisDOT gearing up for the I-94 rebuild in Milwaukee, and no highway tax bump in 15 years, I wouldn't expect a lot of non-maintenance construction elsewhere.

[mgk920]

2030 was the date anticipated to build the freeway-to-freeway flyover ramps at Verona Rd, but I wouldn't hold your breath. With WisDOT gearing up for the I-94 rebuild in Milwaukee, and no highway tax bump in 15 years, I wouldn't expect a lot of non-maintenance construction elsewhere.

The I-94 Milwaukee east-west rebuild starts next year, but I am anticipating no freeway upgrades in the Madison area until at least 2030 (after the I-41 'big shovel' work from Appleton to De Pere is complete).

Direct 'fly under' ramps for the US 18/151 turns at Verona Rd have been discussed at the official level by WisDOT for a couple of decades now, always vociferously objected to by the old line 'anti-car' forces in Madison.     Eventually, they will have to be done.

Mike

[SEWIGuy]

2030 was the date anticipated to build the freeway-to-freeway flyover ramps at Verona Rd, but I wouldn't hold your breath. With WisDOT gearing up for the I-94 rebuild in Milwaukee, and no highway tax bump in 15 years, I wouldn't expect a lot of non-maintenance construction elsewhere.

The I-94 Milwaukee east-west rebuild starts next year, but I am anticipating no freeway upgrades in the Madison area until at least 2030 (after the I-41 'big shovel' work from Appleton to De Pere is complete).

Direct 'fly under' ramps for the US 18/151 turns at Verona Rd have been discussed at the official level by WisDOT for a couple of decades now, always vociferously objected to by the old line 'anti-car' forces in Madison.     Eventually, they will have to be done.

Mike

The free flowing interchange was identified as the preferred alternative in the original study and included in the EIS here.

https://projects.511wi.gov/veronard/wp-content/uploads/sites/143/feis-es.pdf

And while yes there were clear anti-car concerns, I think the main reason why this got spread out over so many years was due to cost more than anything.