Beltway / Bypass, or Mainline?

[PColumbus73]

Changed the thread name to 'Beltway / Bypass, or Mainline?'

Hopefully it clears up the discussion a bit and avoid sinking into a 'good/bad' argument.

Since it comes down to personal preference, as well as convenience, distance, and congestion, when does one prefer to use the beltway (or bypass), and when would one rather stay on the mainline instead of using the beltway (or bypass)?

It sounds like for cities like Los Angeles and Houston, it doesn't really matter which highway use, 405 vs 5 or 610 vs 10. Atlanta and Nashville, maybe it's better to stay on the mainline, and Richmond and Portland, the bypasses are preferred over going through downtown.

[Dirt Roads]

An example that does NOT work IMO: US 64 around Asheboro, NC. It's poorly located for US 64 through traffic, time savings versus using the business route are minimal at best, it is redundant for I-74 traffic connecting to US 64 west, and it does not sufficiently serve or provide any benefit for locations north of the city center. Frankly, the southwestern quadrant does not need to exist, the North Carolina Zoo is probably the strongest case for why the southeastern quadrant needs to exist, and even if US 64 does warrant a full bypass, it could have been built around the north side of Asheboro using significantly less mileage and state resources (roughly 7.5 miles instead of 13).

This is an example where the route numbering system is quite misleading.  Nowadays, most of the east-west traffic through Asheboro from US-64 is heading towards heading towards Charlotte on NC-49.  The rest of the Asheboro Bypass is designed for NC Zoo traffic: Coming from Raleigh on US-64; coming from Greensboro on US-220 (oops, I-73/I-74); and coming from Lexington proper on US-64.  So I will disagree with you and say that the northwest quadrant is the one that is least important.

Here's where the history comes in (pardon, since many of you have seen me post this many times over).  For much of the 1960s and 1970s, the main route from the Great Lakes -to- Myrtle Beach was I-77 -to- US-52 -to- US-64 -to- US-220 -to- US-74 (then pick your best route).  The routing of I-74 mirrors this concept. 

[webny99]

This is an example where the route numbering system is quite misleading.  Nowadays, most of the east-west traffic through Asheboro from US-64 is heading towards heading towards Charlotte on NC-49.  The rest of the Asheboro Bypass is designed for NC Zoo traffic: Coming from Raleigh on US-64; coming from Greensboro on US-220 (oops, I-73/I-74); and coming from Lexington proper on US-64.  So I will disagree with you and say that the northwest quadrant is the one that is least important.

OK, I can see where the bypass is useful for US 64 WB to NC 49. However, I would still argue that it would be equally beneficial to have a northern bypass as a southern one to make that movement, since it would be about 9 miles instead of about 11 using the current bypass.

In terms of quadrants, the western quadrants are obviously much less important than the eastern ones, because I-74 passes west of downtown Asheboro, it's already sort of a western bypass, so the importance of the northwest vs. southwest quadrant is kind of irrelevant.

[bluecountry]

NJTP  from I-295 to the I-95/PATP.

[TheStranger]

Going to the "bypass or mainline" deal, California version, looking at google maps during the afternoon:

Sacramento area

West Sacramento to Foothill Farms
80 through Natomas is usually the better option, due to how many traffic generating spots occur on Business 80 (Midtown Sacramento, Arden Fair, the auto row along Auburn/old US 40 & 99E) and the older nature of the Business 80 crossing of the American River

Downtown Sacramento to Elk Grove
99 goes through the much more populated side, while 5 is less congested due to mostly reaching post-1970s suburban development, with the Elk Grove segment in particular being less intensely built up than the 99 portion.  99 thus takes a bit more southbound traffic at rush hour than 5

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Bay Area

San Francisco to San Jose
280 can be faster at times in its middle section, but to some degree that is negated once you get in SF (due to the 19th Avenue section never being built) or from Los Altos Hills into SJ in the evening rush hour.  Also some northbound congestion between 380 and 1 in the afternoon. 

Within SF
280 usually is a smoother route to SOMA/Bay Bridge than 101-80 during commute hours, even factoring in the stoplights along 6th Street.  (Of course this is negated when the Warriors have games)

Macarthur Maze to Cordelia
Eastbound in the afternoon, both 80 and 24 have their slow spots.  Westbound, 680/24 is very effective in allowing drivers to avoid the slowdowns on 80 that begin in Albany/Berkeley (and with the use of Route 13, can get you to San Mateo easily without requiring any driving through the MacArthur Maze or SF at all).

Mountain View to South San Jose
85 and 101 each essentially serve different suburban neighborhoods and both get congested at rush hour.

San Jose to Vallejo
680 and 780 are a newer corridor overall than 880 and 80; for that matter, 880 north of 262 has few freeway alternatives and 680 goes through a relatively rural segment south of San Ramon and is the clear better option.

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Southern California

Devore to Temecula
Depends on direction.  Looking at Google Maps at 5:40 today, 215 is the better option northbound and 15 is the better option southbound.

Arleta to East Los Angeles
Both 170/101 and 5 run into congestion in the afternoon south of 134, though 5 clears up after 110 (before slowing down again after 60) and 101 clears up after 10.

Los Angeles to Beaumont:
60, 210, and 10 all are congested going eastbound
10 does have the advantage of the El Monte Busway HOT lanes from downtown LA to San Gabriel
East of 215, 210 and 60 are less busy than 10

Sylmar to Irvine
5 and 405 are equally congested in different spots in both directions
210-57-71-91-241-133 has more clear spots southbound, but has severe congestion on 210 from Pasadena tO San Dimas and on 71 between 83 and 91

San Juan Capistrano to Fountain Valley
73 is the better option traffic-wise (but requires toll) up to 55, 405 from 133 to 73 is noticeably slower.

Del Mar to San Ysidro
Both 5 and 805 are busy southbound at afternoon rush hour between Sorrento Valley and 54, then equally clear afterwards; northbound is pretty clear on either route

El Cajon to downtown San Diego
125-94 is clear westbound and eastbound according to Google Maps
8 west is clear, but the routes that then scoot you to downtown SD would not be (15 or 163 south)

Del Mar to El Cajon
According to Google Maps; afternoon rush hour equally hits southbound 805 between 52 and 8, and eastbound 52 between 805 and 125

Miramar to National City
15 and 163 are busy southbound, though Google is showing this occurring in different spots (163 south primarily from 805 to 5, 15 from 163 to Aero Drive and from 8 to 94)

[Dirt Roads]

This is an example where the route numbering system is quite misleading.  Nowadays, most of the east-west traffic through Asheboro from US-64 is heading towards heading towards Charlotte on NC-49.  The rest of the Asheboro Bypass is designed for NC Zoo traffic: Coming from Raleigh on US-64; coming from Greensboro on US-220 (oops, I-73/I-74); and coming from Lexington proper on US-64.  So I will disagree with you and say that the northwest quadrant is the one that is least important.

OK, I can see where the bypass is useful for US 64 WB to NC 49. However, I would still argue that it would be equally beneficial to have a northern bypass as a southern one to make that movement, since it would be about 9 miles instead of about 11 using the current bypass.

In terms of quadrants, the western quadrants are obviously much less important than the eastern ones, because I-74 passes west of downtown Asheboro, it's already sort of a western bypass, so the importance of the northwest vs. southwest quadrant is kind of irrelevant.

Keep in mind that NC-49 west of the short old US-64 entanglement (near I-73/I-74) is almost a Super Two arrangement (with some short fourlane sections) all the way to the other side of the Tuckertown Reservoir.  The Asheboro Bypass makes a great connection.  [By the way, this weekend is the Old Fashion Farmer's Days celebration at the Denton Farm Park, just off this stretch of NC-49].

[SeriesE]

Sacramento area

Downtown Sacramento to Elk Grove
99 goes through the much more populated side, while 5 is less congested due to mostly reaching post-1970s suburban development, with the Elk Grove segment in particular being less intensely built up than the 99 portion.  99 thus takes a bit more southbound traffic at rush hour than 5

Is it me or is 99's lanes in city of Sacramento narrower than the standard 12 feet?

[TheStranger]

Sacramento area

Downtown Sacramento to Elk Grove
99 goes through the much more populated side, while 5 is less congested due to mostly reaching post-1970s suburban development, with the Elk Grove segment in particular being less intensely built up than the 99 portion.  99 thus takes a bit more southbound traffic at rush hour than 5

Is it me or is 99's lanes in city of Sacramento narrower than the standard 12 feet?

North of 47th Avenue I do think this is the case - that freeway was built as US 99/US 50 in the late 1950s/early 1960s, with the portion of what is now Business 80/I-305 between Oak Park and N Street being built in the mid-1960s as US 99E/US 50 (and I-80).  Arguably not even Interstate standard until after the railroad crossing between Elk Grove and Galt.

99 basically is a mix of slightly older design history and serving existing population centers (South Sacramento/Florin Mall) area first, followed by the portions of Elk Grove that boomed first in the 90s and 2000s.  (It is also closer to old town Elk Grove as well)

[SeriesE]

Sacramento area

Downtown Sacramento to Elk Grove
99 goes through the much more populated side, while 5 is less congested due to mostly reaching post-1970s suburban development, with the Elk Grove segment in particular being less intensely built up than the 99 portion.  99 thus takes a bit more southbound traffic at rush hour than 5

Is it me or is 99's lanes in city of Sacramento narrower than the standard 12 feet?

North of 47th Avenue I do think this is the case - that freeway was built as US 99/US 50 in the late 1950s/early 1960s, with the portion of what is now Business 80/I-305 between Oak Park and N Street being built in the mid-1960s as US 99E/US 50 (and I-80).  Arguably not even Interstate standard until after the railroad crossing between Elk Grove and Galt.

99 basically is a mix of slightly older design history and serving existing population centers (South Sacramento/Florin Mall) area first, followed by the portions of Elk Grove that boomed first in the 90s and 2000s.  (It is also closer to old town Elk Grove as well)

I've noticed it most south of 47th Avenue to Elk Grove Blvd since there's no inside shoulder in that segment until past Mack Road. Seems like they opted for LA-style widening to add the HOV lane there.