The American Dream Mall, or: Why Mega Malls Are Dumb in 2024

[Bobby5280]

Don't forget one of the biggest complaints about the local movie theater -- snacks.  We all know about the $5 box of M&Ms or the 2-gallon-sized popcorn buckets, but another issue is that it's hard to find anything that's healthy, such as there being few drinks besides available soda.

Popcorn, snacks and soft drinks cost what they do at theaters to help cover the cost of operation. The movie theater doesn't keep much of the money from tickets sold; most of that goes to the movie distributors. If the cinemas set prices of popcorn, drinks and snacks at the levels what you would pay at a convenience store or the grocery store the cinema would close.

Offering more healthy options costs money. Most customers want the popcorn, sodas and candy. So the theater has to keep those product lines. Only a small minority of customers are going to buy the health conscious options. That's even the case with theaters that have a dine-in concept. Generally speaking, eating out is not a healthy thing to do.

Countless millions of Americans couldn't give a rat's ass worth of concern about the perilous future of commercial cinemas. But they should.

As I said earlier, cinemas are an important anchor for many shopping centers. It doesn't matter if the shopping center is an old style indoor mall or a newer style town center. If the cinema closes for good the foot traffic at the shopping center will drop dramatically. The negative ripple effects will hurt other nearby businesses and the overall local economy.

The Harkins theater in downtown Oklahoma City is the primary thing that gets me to visit the Bricktown area. The theater has a really good (and big) Atmos-equipped auditorium, formerly called the Cine Capri, but now the Cine 1 (they installed recliner seats). I wouldn't drive from Lawton to that part of OKC at all if that theater didn't exist. That multiplex is a very important anchor for all the other restaurants, bars and stores that operate along the Riverwalk.

Our old Central Mall in Lawton (now "Central Plaza") is practically dead. JCPenney is the only big anchor store left. Sears and Dillard's closed years ago; those spaces have been converted into incubator spaces for defense technology companies also operating at Fort Sill. 20 years ago that mall would be packed with people on the weekend. Walk in there on a Saturday afternoon now and you'll see hardly anyone in there. Most of the smaller satellite retail stores have closed. The 12-plex movie theater was closed years ago and still sits empty. Empty posters cases still hang on the exterior of the building. It just looks sad.

[Molandfreak]

I don't know, maybe it's the exception to the rule but Mall of America remains a major tourist and economic draw here.

The Mall of America works for a few reasons:

• Timing--MOA opened before internet shopping took over the major shopping function of indoor malls, so it was already an established shopping center by the time of the financial crisis, COVID, etc.
• Location/transit--since the MOA is also a transit hub for the light rail system, tourists and locals who don't own a car are able to get to the mall easily.
• Pizzaz--malls that are surviving usually have something other than shopping to keep locals and tourists interested in coming. The MOA has plenty of these: Nickelodeon Universe, Sea Life, Crayola, Lego Land, even two hotels that are directly connected. It doesn't have to be that grandiose in order to work--Dick's House of Sport serves the same purpose for Ridgedale Center, but it does need to have an entertainment function beyond shopping.

The mall mentioned in the OP clearly was trying to meet the third criterion at the expense of the transit criterion which could have made it work despite its less-than-ideal opening time. An expansion of that other nearby mall mentioned in the OP probably would have been more successful, since that was an established shopping center that could probably benefit from a revamp and new tenants.

[Stephane Dumas]

That remind me of the cartoon 6teen then I mentioned in the thread about Dead Malls where kids meet at the mall or work at the mall.

20 years later, the concept of 6teen look outdated now...

[GaryV]

//snipped drivel//

WTF is this?

I'd blame AI, but the I is supposed to stand for Intelligence, so I guess not.

[jeffandnicole]

As I said earlier, cinemas are an important anchor for many shopping centers. It doesn't matter if the shopping center is an old style indoor mall or a newer style town center. If the cinema closes for good the foot traffic at the shopping center will drop dramatically. The negative ripple effects will hurt other nearby businesses and the overall local economy.

Not for nothing, but some of those stats don't make much sense.  Shopping centers tend to thrive during the day, whereas movie theatres get most of their attendance in the evening.  People aren't commonly shopping then going to the theatre, or watching a movie then shopping.  If anything, it keeps a shopping center or mall active later in the evening when most stores are closing, or have closed.  The closest one may get to a relationship is a restaurant in the shopping complex may see some business from movie goers, but that's probably just a small part of their overall business.

[Rothman]

Someone who probably thinks being on this forum to "resolve the boredom in their life" is somehow more aspirational way to spend their time?  That or a fuck ton of paranoia and possibly drugs. 

Eh, In_Correct's James Joyce-ian rants have been around for a good long while.  Just read them like rhythmic word poetry meant to entertain the ears, rather than taking them literally.  I find them quite enjoyable.

[Bobby5280]

Not for nothing, but some of those stats don't make much sense.  Shopping centers tend to thrive during the day, whereas movie theatres get most of their attendance in the evening.  People aren't commonly shopping then going to the theatre, or watching a movie then shopping.  If anything, it keeps a shopping center or mall active later in the evening when most stores are closing, or have closed.  The closest one may get to a relationship is a restaurant in the shopping complex may see some business from movie goers, but that's probably just a small part of their overall business.

Most indoor movie theaters have daytime shows. During the weekends those matinee shows can draw large crowds, especially if they're showing good movies. The latest sequels for Inside Out and Despicable Me have had pretty good attendance numbers, especially during weekend afternoons. Parents are more likely to take their kids to earlier shows.

Shopping centers have more than just retail stores. The more trendy town centers are loaded more with restaurants, bars and other outlets of entertainment that stay open after dark. It is common for people to eat at a restaurant and then see a movie.

And then there is the advertising angle. Anyone going to a multiplex cinema in or next to a shopping center is going to see some of the store fronts of those retailers in the same vicinity. Signs and other aspects of "store front personality" is just as much about advertising as it is about informing customers the store is located there. If the movie theater closes there will be fewer people passing by the store front, being reminded that they're there. If the potential customer does all his movie watching at home he might be more likely to order any retail stuff he wants online.

[noelbotevera]

The American Dream Mall survives because it's not a traditional mall, but a destination resort without being a resort. Many go for the Big Snow or the amusement park.  The mall is very heavily oriented towards restaurants.  The shopping aspect is almost secondary.

There, of course, are many things wrong with it. Timing was not on its side of course.  And while I disagree that they "forgot" to provide access via train, that's not really the mall's doing.  They would've needed to work with NJ Transit, PATH or another train option to route rail there.  And being that rail costs roughly $100 million per mile in that area, plus more for bridges and stations and such, it was a cost no transit agency wanted to spend. 

Assuming that the American Dream Mall is for tourists, I still believe it's a victim of a poor location. True, there aren't ski hills nor amusement parks near NYC, but why would I be inclined to eat at the American Dream Mall when I could go to the city? I guess you could argue that the mall is targeted for tourists staying in New Jersey who don't want to deal with driving into the city.

Also, NJ Transit operates a shuttle to the Meadowlands on game days. Since they opened up the Meadowlands exit full time on the NJ Turnpike, I think it's poor planning not to consider throwing cash at NJ Transit to run that shuttle during mall hours. "Forgot" is a strong word, but the infrastructure is already there.

[RZF]

In California, it seems that the outdoor "town center" malls are still doing very well, and some indoor malls are dying.

For example, in Ventura County, The Collection, the Camarillo Outlets, and the Janss Marketplace are doing well. Maybe the year-round beautiful 65-80 degree weather is the reason. On the flip side, the Pacific View Mall in Ventura (indoor mall) is empty and considerably vacant.

There are some indoor malls that are still doing well in other locations, like the Ontario Mills and the various Westfields all over the LA Area. And then there are indoor malls like the Westminster Mall and the Moreno Valley Mall that are dying, among others.

I could be wrong, but from what I see, the quality of the tenants is what keeps malls alive, regardless of whether it's indoors or outdoors. The typical middle-class retail stores that you can find all over the country are the ones that are hurting. The higher-end retail stores seem to attract more customers across all socioeconomic groups, at least in California. It's probably the novelty and rarefied air that shopping at those stores brings.

[TheStranger]

And then there are indoor malls like the Westminster Mall and the Moreno Valley Mall that are dying, among others.

The Moreno Valley Mall's decline is a bit wry given that it was placed on the site of Riverside International Raceway, which closed specifically due to the devleopment potential of that site in the late 1980s.