CARxR 1.11: Highway Naming

[cahwyguy]

Got it in just under the wire for the month. Here is the next episode on the California Highways Route by Route podcast. In this episode, the penultimate episode of Season 1, we explore highway naming in California. What are your favorite highway names? What names do you despise? Dispute? What names do you think Tom should blog about :-) ?

https://caroutebyroute.org/2023/05/28/carxr-1-11-highway-naming/

https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/0I8q800ibAb

Ready, set, discuss.

[bing101]

Here is a followup response on how Highways are named but this is specific to Southern California

[Max Rockatansky]

Eh, clearly there was usage of placing "the" in front of things way before the 1964 State Highway Renumbering.  There is CHPW articles from decades earlier referring to Tejon Pass as "The Grapevine."

[cahwyguy]

I'll add one thing here that, surprisingly, I just realized yesterday when commenting to a friend on FB: For the District 7/12 destination-based names, with the exception of those based on the replaced roads (Artesia, Foothill, San Gabriel River Freeway), they are all based on the closest major city near the District 7/12 border. Golden State Freeway might be an exception, but that arguably replaced the Golden State Highway.

[TheStranger]

I'll add one thing here that, surprisingly, I just realized yesterday when commenting to a friend on FB: For the District 7/12 destination-based names, with the exception of those based on the replaced roads (Artesia, Foothill, San Gabriel River Freeway), they are all based on the closest major city near the District 7/12 border. Golden State Freeway might be an exception, but that arguably replaced the Golden State Highway.

Trying to think of which belongs in which category:

BASED ON NEARBY EXISTING ROAD OR HIGHWAY
Artesia (though it does pass by that town)* - western portion is named "Gardena Freeway" though not sure how commonly that is used
Foothill
Golden State
Century - proposed mid-1960s, completed 1992 long after the time period when the destination names became the usual terminology in District 7/District 12.
Jamboree Road (direct upgrade of existing arterial)

BASED ON DESTINATION ONLY
Harbor
Terminal Island
Ventura (though note that Ventura Boulevard is immediately parallel to the 101 portion of the freeway and also was named for similar reasons; also part of the eastern portion was originally the Colorado Freeway named after Colorado Boulevard)
Hollywood (wasn't this originally Cahuenga Parkway named after the pass and the nearby existing boulevard)
Pasadena* (now using the pre-1950s Arroyo Seco moniker again)
Santa Monica (originally proposed as Olympic after the nearby state highway 26)
San Diego (was originally named "Sepulveda Freeway"?)
San Bernardino (does not actually reach downtown San Bernardino at all; was originally named Ramona after the existing boulevard)
Pomona
Riverside
Santa Ana
Glendale
Long Beach (was Los Angeles River Freeway at one point?)
Marina
Simi Valley-San Fernando Valley* (since renamed for Ronald Reagan)
Orange
Costa Mesa (originally Newport)
Garden Grove (parallel to existing Garden Grove Boulevard/original 22)
Antelope Valley
Corona
Chino Valley

BASED ON GEOGRAPHIC FEATURE
San Gabriel River
Foothill Transportation Corridor (and all of the Orange County tollways in general)

[mrsman]

^^^^^

As above, originally nearly all of the freeways (eventually built or planned and never built) got their names from parallel streets and then later shifted to being destination based names.  One could quibble with whether the names are the best ways to get to the city mentioned, and it is arguable (especially for the freeways that aren't radial freeways) if the right name was chosen.

Artesia seems to fit both the street name and the town name criteria.  The portion west of 710 used to be known as Redondo Beach Fwy which again fit both criteria (the western portion of Artesia Blvd was once named Redondo Beach Blvd).  Gardena is purely a destination name acknowledging that the freeway will never be extended west of Vermont Ave.

Foothill arguably is a better shot to S.B. than I-10, but once I-10 was named for S.B., 210 needed its own name.  And it took a very long time to get 210 extended all the way to S.B.

I-10 is a better shot to Pomona, 60 only skirts the very edge.  But I think that it was named after Pomona Blvd in East L.A. that sits right next to the freeway.

Golden State definitely follows the street pattern, at least in the SQ Valley, I don't recall any street by that name in L.A.  Bakersfield was once the northern control and arguably it should still be the control and Bakersfield Fwy might fit with the rest of the pattern.

134 is so far from Ventura.  I realize its an Eastern extension of the E-W 101 thru SF Valley, but still.  (Yet, Pasadena and Glendale are already taken).

Santa Monica is an interesting one.  Yes, it takes its name from destination and yes, it used to be known for Olympic (especially when first planned, it was a lot closer to Olympic in its central section and not Washington Blvd) but there was a Santa Monica Pkwy on planning maps, close to SM Blvd, later renamed Beverly Hills Fwy, and never built.

[TheStranger]

Golden State definitely follows the street pattern, at least in the SQ Valley, I don't recall any street by that name in L.A.

US 99 was the Golden State Highway between LA-Sacramento, though this primarily is seen in boulevard names in certain Central Valley cities (Bakersfield, Fresno, Turlock).

134 is so far from Ventura.  I realize its an Eastern extension of the E-W 101 thru SF Valley, but still.  (Yet, Pasadena and Glendale are already taken).

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

[mrsman]

134 is so far from Ventura.  I realize its an Eastern extension of the E-W 101 thru SF Valley, but still.  (Yet, Pasadena and Glendale are already taken).

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

While that is technically true, I don't think in common-parlance people were aware that the southernmost section of US 101 was part of the Santa Ana Fwy.  As a budding roadgeek in the pre-internet era (before this forum and mtr) I assumed that US 101 was the Hollywood Fwy all the way down to the East LA interchange.

When I was a kid, a lot of my friends would play the game of asking me how many freeways to get from here (West LA area) to X.  Sometimes I would ask them to define what is a separate freeway.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 101-Hollywood?  Same number but you definitely transition an interchange to make the change.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 134-Ventura?  Is the 91-Artesia a separate freeway from 91-Riverside?  Is the 5-Golden State or the 101-Downtown the proper continuation of the 5-Santa Ana Fwy?  No clear answers were given. 

[RZF]

134 is so far from Ventura.  I realize its an Eastern extension of the E-W 101 thru SF Valley, but still.  (Yet, Pasadena and Glendale are already taken).

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

While that is technically true, I don't think in common-parlance people were aware that the southernmost section of US 101 was part of the Santa Ana Fwy.  As a budding roadgeek in the pre-internet era (before this forum and mtr) I assumed that US 101 was the Hollywood Fwy all the way down to the East LA interchange.

When I was a kid, a lot of my friends would play the game of asking me how many freeways to get from here (West LA area) to X.  Sometimes I would ask them to define what is a separate freeway.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 101-Hollywood?  Same number but you definitely transition an interchange to make the change.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 134-Ventura?  Is the 91-Artesia a separate freeway from 91-Riverside?  Is the 5-Golden State or the 101-Downtown the proper continuation of the 5-Santa Ana Fwy?  No clear answers were given. 

And this explains how the "named" freeways reflect a more streamlined, straight route than the numbered routes do (e.g., 101 and 170 being the Hollywood Fwy, effectively a NW/SE straight line from DTLA to the SF Valley).

It's interesting to me how the principal city of the area, Los Angeles, does not have its own freeway designation. If anything, CA-118, many miles away from downtown, replaced Los Angeles Ave as the main E/W arterial in Simi Valley and could've adopted this designation.

On the topic of downtown (and maybe for a separate topic), San Diego implements "Downtown" as a control city on its freeways going towards there. These are within the city limits of course, but I think it's a great distinction to make. Why does D7 always insist on "Los Angeles" on so many of its freeways that are relatively close to downtown?

[SeriesE]

Why does D7 always insist on "Los Angeles" on so many of its freeways that are relatively close to downtown?

Seems as if the original planners came straight from 1850 - only the original square counts as "Los Angeles"

[TheStranger]

134 is so far from Ventura.  I realize its an Eastern extension of the E-W 101 thru SF Valley, but still.  (Yet, Pasadena and Glendale are already taken).

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

While that is technically true, I don't think in common-parlance people were aware that the southernmost section of US 101 was part of the Santa Ana Fwy.  As a budding roadgeek in the pre-internet era (before this forum and mtr) I assumed that US 101 was the Hollywood Fwy all the way down to the East LA interchange.

There IS one sign that does make this specific mistake - the signage for US 101 from Route 60/Pomona Freeway westbound labels it as Hollywood Freeway from the very start of the East LA Interchange
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0315841,-118.1915848,3a,75y,251.03h,93.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skDWaxPSKZe4tMZX853vjNA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkDWaxPSKZe4tMZX853vjNA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D251.02766227789115%26pitch%3D-3.422474976493689%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

That being said, there were some signs scattered around downtown that do identify 101's Slot section correctly as the Santa Ana Freeway


This one existed in 2011 but was gone by 2017
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0585298,-118.2478063,3a,16.1y,39.79h,81.11t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s0CnPnQfgXG1nbp46UvLCQw!2e0!5s20110501T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D0CnPnQfgXG1nbp46UvLCQw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D39.79372134216777%26pitch%3D8.888814262497547%26thumbfov%3D90!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205410&entry=ttu

On the topic of downtown (and maybe for a separate topic), San Diego implements "Downtown" as a control city on its freeways going towards there. These are within the city limits of course, but I think it's a great distinction to make. Why does D7 always insist on "Los Angeles" on so many of its freeways that are relatively close to downtown?

One guess I have actually is apparent when looking on a map of the East Los Angeles Interchange:

I-5 (northbound), Route 60 (westbound), I-10 (westbound) all barely enter the LA city limits from the south and east respectively, before reaching that interchange.  That may explain why in those cases, signing LA as the key control all the way to that point makes sense.

Of course, that also means that US 101 is signed for Los Angeles on 25 of its final 29 southbound miles in city limits (up to the Four-Level), and I-5 also has southbound signage for LA throughout the San Fernando Valley. (Adding to this may be how San Fernando Valley's communities continue to exist semi-separately even with most being part of the City of Los Angeles, due to the USPS usage of the former towns or even post-1900s districts like Tarzana as valid mailing destinations)

When I was a kid, a lot of my friends would play the game of asking me how many freeways to get from here (West LA area) to X.  Sometimes I would ask them to define what is a separate freeway.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 101-Hollywood?  Same number but you definitely transition an interchange to make the change.  Is the 101-Ventura a separate freeway from the 134-Ventura?  Is the 91-Artesia a separate freeway from 91-Riverside?  Is the 5-Golden State or the 101-Downtown the proper continuation of the 5-Santa Ana Fwy?  No clear answers were given.

The Bay Area is also full of this, though to a lesser extent:

280 is on the Junipero Serra, but also on the (rarely-referred to) Southern Freeway and the "280 extension"
101's most well known freeway names here are Bayshore and Central
80's section from the MacArthur Maze up to about Route 4 has been known as the Eastshore since that was US 40 (with old Eastshore Highway/Boulevard still existing in spurts)
580 is only the MacArthur Freeway along the portion that parallels MacArthur Boulevard (from the Maze to 238), which is a very important distinction due to the truck ban along that segment

Probably the only times here where a well known named route is represented entirely by one number are 880 (Nimitz) and the freeway portion of 13 (Warren). 

[mrsman]

It's interesting to me how the principal city of the area, Los Angeles, does not have its own freeway designation. If anything, CA-118, many miles away from downtown, replaced Los Angeles Ave as the main E/W arterial in Simi Valley and could've adopted this designation.

When moving from street based to geographic based named, L.A. is the reference point, so it does not make sense to be used as a freeway name.

Why does D7 always insist on "Los Angeles" on so many of its freeways that are relatively close to downtown?

Seems as if the original planners came straight from 1850 - only the original square counts as "Los Angeles"

As if!  L.A. is used as a control even within the Hoover-Expo-Indiana-Fountain square. 

When looking at entrance ramps, US 101 on-ramp at Glendale Blvd uses L.A, and I'm sure you see the control on a lot of other on-ramps that are only blocks away from Downtown on the other freeways.  There is the odd I-5 north control for L.A. on 4th street, which does not make sense to me as 4th is a direct shot into Downtown and I-5 Golden State Fwy is a slight diversion, and it is already north of the point that Downtown bound traffic would have taken US 101.  (Sacramento would be a better control, but I also think that San Bernardino should also be used on this section that is essentially also the I-10 connector)

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0426223,-118.2163703,3a,15y,18.12h,89.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-34EPK5XIDfGMh--TWvF7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu


Agree that Downtown would be better in areas that are somewhat close in, I'd say between 105 and Mulholland and 405 to Eastern city limits.  L.A. should still be used in outlying areas like the San Fernando Valley, even though technically within city limits.

[SeriesE]

Agree that Downtown would be better in areas that are somewhat close in, I'd say between 105 and Mulholland and 405 to Eastern city limits.  L.A. should still be used in outlying areas like the San Fernando Valley, even though technically within city limits.

Maybe "Downtown LA" would be better. San Diego begins signing for "Downtown" at CA-56, about 20 miles away. The first control city sign that would be eligible for a similar treatment in LA is at the I-405 split, which is only slightly farther (~25 miles).

[GaryA]

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

While that is technically true, I don't think in common-parlance people were aware that the southernmost section of US 101 was part of the Santa Ana Fwy.  As a budding roadgeek in the pre-internet era (before this forum and mtr) I assumed that US 101 was the Hollywood Fwy all the way down to the East LA interchange.

It was easier to realize that that part of the 101 was the Santa Ana Freeway when call boxes were common and used a label based on the freeway name -- "HO" for the Hollywood Freeway, "SA" for the Santa Ana.

This made it look like the changeover was at the 4-level interchange, which I'm told is almost but not quite correct - it's slightly south of there, a relic of the original Hollywood Freeway construction.

[TheStranger]

It's kinda like how 101 north of 5 is still the Santa Ana Freeway, keeping in mind that 5 south of that interchange was all part of 101 at some point.

While that is technically true, I don't think in common-parlance people were aware that the southernmost section of US 101 was part of the Santa Ana Fwy.  As a budding roadgeek in the pre-internet era (before this forum and mtr) I assumed that US 101 was the Hollywood Fwy all the way down to the East LA interchange.

It was easier to realize that that part of the 101 was the Santa Ana Freeway when call boxes were common and used a label based on the freeway name -- "HO" for the Hollywood Freeway, "SA" for the Santa Ana.

This made it look like the changeover was at the 4-level interchange, which I'm told is almost but not quite correct - it's slightly south of there, a relic of the original Hollywood Freeway construction.

IIRC the Santa Ana Freeway name eventually was extended to the Four-Level officially:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE101.html

[Max Rockatansky]

Yes, many of the early CHPW articles referred to the segment of US 101 south of four level interchange to as part of the Hollywood Freeway.  Off the top of my head I believe that extended south to the Aliso Street Viaduct where it would have met the San Bernardino Freeway.

[FredAkbar]

On the topic of downtown (and maybe for a separate topic), San Diego implements "Downtown" as a control city on its freeways going towards there. These are within the city limits of course, but I think it's a great distinction to make. Why does D7 always insist on "Los Angeles" on so many of its freeways that are relatively close to downtown?

By contrast, I have seen the electronic signs in the LA area with the travel times show the minutes to "Downtown", even from far away places like the San Fernando Valley area on US-101 (this might not be quite accurate, I'm going off memory from like 10 years ago).