How trustworthy are logo signs?

[Molandfreak]

I do like signs that tell me that a certain hotel/restsurant/gas station is at a certain exit. OTOH, it's not as helpful to learn that, for example, said establishment is more than half a mile away, requires a left turn in heavy traffic, etc. Looking at apps/maps ahead of time helps. 

The logo signs on I-35 at TH 19 west of Northfield, MN are like this. Northfield is about 7 miles east of I-35. You might as well stick it out until Lakeville or Faribault.

Interestingly, MnDOT has been pretty good about updating the logo signs at that exit. When the Archer House burned down in Northfield, signage for businesses in that building was taken down less than two weeks later.

[Bitmapped]

I thought that highway logo signs are maintained by private outfits (such as Interstate Logos LLC) by arrangement with each state's DOT, and so the DOTs aren't directly involved with installation or maintenance.  The business pays an annual fee and has to meet other requirements for posting.  I suppose if the business never tells the logo sign contact that it's out of business, its logo could end up remaining on the signs at least until the end of the contract period.

It depends. Many states contract out the logo signs (like 23 states do with Interstate Logos) but some do operate things in-house (like West Virginia).

I've seen some cases where closed businesses still have signage up. I presume a work order was never generated to take down the signs when they closed or failed to pay their annual renewal.

[rhen_var]

On US-52 in Rochester, MN, there's a logo sign for McDonald's for the Elton Hills Drive exit.  There used to be a McDonald's where the Foresight Bank is now, just off the exit.  But when that closed, rather than remove the logo from the sign, the arrow signs at the exit now point you to the McDonald's near Circle Drive which is nearly 2 miles away.  Clever, but probably annoying if you're looking for a quick in and out.

[roadman65]

The problem is when the establishment you see on the freeway sign requires a secondary turn off the first road you exit onto, and sometimes that is inconsistently signed.

Or in New Jersey where a business is listed and requires a u turn to access as the roadway has a sealed median with no breaks.

On I-287 in Edison, NJ the White Castle north of Exit 1A is on the southbound side of US 1. There you can enter it from parallel Lafayette Avenue that lies behind the restaurant. However, that requires to exit at Parsonage Road and then turn right at Lafayette which has no follow up signage to support this. Instead you see the White Castle on the left, but can't turn into it because of the Jersey barrier median with no breaks to cross it. Unless you are familiar with how the jersey jughandles work, you would figure out to turnabout at Ford Avenue just a quarter mile later. For those who don't know how to use a jughandle, you will be riding US 1 for miles beyond it as it's about five miles to the first intersection along US 1 that lets you make a normal u turn at an intersection or use the NJ 35 interchange sooner that's still 2 miles beyond the eatery.

[jeffandnicole]

The problem is when the establishment you see on the freeway sign requires a secondary turn off the first road you exit onto, and sometimes that is inconsistently signed.

Or in New Jersey where a business is listed and requires a u turn to access as the roadway has a sealed median with no breaks.

On I-287 in Edison, NJ the White Castle north of Exit 1A is on the southbound side of US 1. There you can enter it from parallel Lafayette Avenue that lies behind the restaurant. However, that requires to exit at Parsonage Road and then turn right at Lafayette which has no follow up signage to support this. Instead you see the White Castle on the left, but can't turn into it because of the Jersey barrier median with no breaks to cross it. Unless you are familiar with how the jersey jughandles work, you would figure out to turnabout at Ford Avenue just a quarter mile later. For those who don't know how to use a jughandle, you will be riding US 1 for miles beyond it as it's about five miles to the first intersection along US 1 that lets you make a normal u turn at an intersection or use the NJ 35 interchange sooner that's still 2 miles beyond the eatery.

NJ's jughandles work very well.  NJDOT's signage for the jughandles is the complete opposite.  All too often, signage is posted much too close to the jughandle for motorists to have sufficient time to react in moderate traffic.  Generally, a quarter mile would be the minimum sufficient distance (IMO), depending on speed limits, volume and number of lanes, and I would prefer a half-mile if conditions allow.  And all too often the signage is off the right shoulder, whereas traffic wanting to turn left is in the left lane, looking ahead at the intersection. 

The problem is exasperated on roadways where there are both left turn channels and jughandles (NJ 73 is good for this).  Anyone not familiar with a road won't have any idea what lane they should be in until close to the intersection.  Often, if it's a jughandle, the sign is close to the jughandle location. If you need to be in the left lane for a traditional left turn, no signage may be posted. 

Back to the point of logo signs - motorists taking an exit based on a logo sign is probably not familiar with the area.  Once they are directed off the ramp, it's very likely on divided roadways they'll see the signage for the business ahead on the left, but may often have no idea the best way to get there is stay right and take a jughandle to get to it.  If the business is on the right, it's probably easier to get there initially.  Then it may require a jughandle to return to the highway, which again may not be obvious to someone unfamiliar with the area.

[noelbotevera]

I find it adorable that Connecticut has recent-ish, logoless blue signs that still advertise "PHONE" as a service. Yes, that might've been useful twenty or thirty years ago, but I care about lodging, food, or gas more. It's also Connecticut, where you'd be hard pressed to find an exit without food or gas.

I'm not sure how prevalent this practice is, but Maryland does tell you where to turn to reach a business with distances posted. However, if a business requires additional turns, you're on your own. PA is hit or miss (or maybe I don't notice), with the usual logo signs preceding an exit.

Also, it's a crapshoot if the business (usually a gas station) advertised is 24/7 or not. I think truck stops generally mention if they're 24/7, but the logo signs are mum about this. So if you're driving down I-80 at like 1 AM in the middle of nowhere, PA, and you take a random exit to grab gas and find it closed, tough luck! Try again next time.

[jeffandnicole]

I find it adorable that Connecticut has recent-ish, logoless blue signs that still advertise "PHONE" as a service.

NJ has a few of those PHONE signs still out and about.  At this particular exit: https://maps.app.goo.gl/twdkcvqwuG2Liuma6 , I-295 North Exit 43, there's only 1 business this sign could be pointing to, and the public phone has been long gone from this location.

[Rothman]

Even better are the blue signs for direct hotel reservation lines.

[Katavia]

From what I can tell, NCDOT seems to be pretty good about keeping the logo signs up to date, though I've seen the following oddity:
There are one or two logo signs for fuel in the eastern part of the state. They were located on US 64 or 264 (forgot which one, been a while), and mentioned "SELF-SERVE" (as opposed to full service) underneath the station logos. Maybe there's more of them which I just don't see as I don't go to that part of the state all that often. Dunno. They definitely feel like a replace-in-kind job, if they'd been replaced in the past 3 decades at all (as they looked pretty old).

I find it adorable that Connecticut has recent-ish, logoless blue signs that still advertise "PHONE" as a service. Yes, that might've been useful twenty or thirty years ago, but I care about lodging, food, or gas more. It's also Connecticut, where you'd be hard pressed to find an exit without food or gas.

There's still a couple of those non-specific "PHONE - FOOD - GAS" (etc) signs here in NC from my understanding, though the ones I've seen were mostly on the US 74 faux-freeway/expressway/whatever that goes through Waynesville/Sylva/Bryson City and such, and every couple times I travel down that road one of the signs would end up having been replaced by a "normal" logo sign. A handful of those signs have seen at least one (if not multiple) cut and paste jobs as places went in and out of business over the years.

And I'm pretty sure (at least) one of those signs on 74 still has "PHONE" listed.

[Molandfreak]

These days, MnDOT only seems to post public payphones with an accompanying TTY service, which is still valuable for Deaf travelers to use in an emergency.

[CtrlAltDel]

I find it adorable that Connecticut has recent-ish, logoless blue signs that still advertise "PHONE" as a service. Yes, that might've been useful twenty or thirty years ago, but I care about lodging, food, or gas more. It's also Connecticut, where you'd be hard pressed to find an exit without food or gas.

For those that might not know, logo signs are officially known as "specific service signs," while the logoless ones are "general service signs."

Also, it's a crapshoot if the business (usually a gas station) advertised is 24/7 or not. I think truck stops generally mention if they're 24/7, but the logo signs are mum about this. So if you're driving down I-80 at like 1 AM in the middle of nowhere, PA, and you take a random exit to grab gas and find it closed, tough luck! Try again next time.

A while back, I expressed a preference for stricter opening hours for businesses on logo signs, but not everyone agrees.

[jeffandnicole]

A while back, I expressed a preference for stricter opening hours for businesses on logo signs, but not everyone agrees.

Because you'll wind up with signage that would nearly be almost exclusive to certain fast food, truck stops and convenience stores names. At that point, might as well say who is allowed to post signage.

[CtrlAltDel]

A while back, I expressed a preference for stricter opening hours for businesses on logo signs, but not everyone agrees.

Because you'll wind up with signage that would nearly be almost exclusive to certain fast food, truck stops and convenience stores names. At that point, might as well say who is allowed to post signage.

That was one of the arguments, yes.

[roadman65]

Just how many states do have them?

I know Vermont doesn't and probably never will, and my 2008 trip on I-69 in Indiana revealed that Indiana don't as the general service signs were prominent in Fort Wayne.

[StogieGuy7]

Well, then there's WisDOT which entices you with logo signage to get off the freeway only to find that the Jersey Mike's or Red Lobster that you thought would be right here is actually 7 very long miles away.  And sometimes, they don't even tell you that - only providing an arrow at the offramp.  They're just awful.  If the services aren't within one mile, don't sign them!

[CtrlAltDel]

Just how many states do have them?

I know Vermont doesn't and probably never will, and my 2008 trip on I-69 in Indiana revealed that Indiana don't as the general service signs were prominent in Fort Wayne.

For Indiana, it might just be in more urban areas:

[epzik8]

Well, then there's WisDOT which entices you with logo signage to get off the freeway only to find that the Jersey Mike's or Red Lobster that you thought would be right here is actually 7 very long miles away.  And sometimes, they don't even tell you that - only providing an arrow at the offramp.  They're just awful.  If the services aren't within one mile, don't sign them!

Pretty sure that's a massive violation of MUTCD/AASHTO/whatever guidelines regarding such distances.

[wanderer2575]

Well, then there's WisDOT which entices you with logo signage to get off the freeway only to find that the Jersey Mike's or Red Lobster that you thought would be right here is actually 7 very long miles away.  And sometimes, they don't even tell you that - only providing an arrow at the offramp.  They're just awful.  If the services aren't within one mile, don't sign them!

Pretty sure that's a massive violation of MUTCD/AASHTO/whatever guidelines regarding such distances.

Chapter 2J:  Specific Service Signs

Section 2J.01:  Eligibility

2J.01.08:  Except as provided in Paragraph 9 of this Section, distances to eligible services should not exceed 3 miles in any direction.

2J.01.09:  If, within the 3-mile limit, facilities for the services being considered are not available or choose not to participate in the program, the limit of eligibility may be extended in 3-mile increments until one or more facilities for the services being considered chooses to participate, or until 15 miles is reached, whichever comes first.

(Ramp signs are supposed to include "an appropriate directional legend" but I didn't see anything that says distances shall be included.)

[jeffandnicole]

Well, then there's WisDOT which entices you with logo signage to get off the freeway only to find that the Jersey Mike's or Red Lobster that you thought would be right here is actually 7 very long miles away.  And sometimes, they don't even tell you that - only providing an arrow at the offramp.  They're just awful.  If the services aren't within one mile, don't sign them!

Transportation departments aren't the ones randomly signing them.  If the business is within the permitted distance and chooses to participate, they can be signed.