Complete NC 540 Project

[hotdogPi]

Ok. Well I'll bet $1,000 that the moment it becomes a complete loop in 2028 it is renamed I-x40/NCx40.

I would be a neutral arbiter here (once the other person accepts, of course), except I don't think I have the capability to be one.

[PColumbus73]

Get real. NCDOT isn't going to have a complete, independent loop named incorrectly that would mislead travelers from the rest of the US who depend on the numeric designation to let them know what it does, where it goes.

LOL, I wish this was the case, but it is sadly far from reality in terms of DOT decision making. It's much easier, less expensive, and less likely to attract negative publicity for them not to bother with planning and implementing a renumbering just to make it fit the numbering convention.

I don't think the average driver is going to be confused that I-540 isn't I-640. Plenty examples elsewhere, I-520, 355, 495 (NY), seem to indicate the first digit doesn't make much of a difference to the general public. I-540 is pretty well entrenched so renumbering it would seem pointless except for internal cataloging. If North Carolina was dead set on having I-640 knowing it would not be completed for 30 years, they could have built it as NC 640 then submit the Interstate application once the final connection was completed (or to I-495, then 87 when it was established).

I think AASHTO has a point regarding why they chose I-540, if they saw that the highway wasn't funded or planned to completion at the time the application was submitted, and completion was in the distant future, then there would be no guarantee the highway would actually get built. There might have been concerns that an I-640 might not get completed as intended, whether it be lack of funding, or a change in the political climate.

[fillup420]

Get real. NCDOT isn't going to have a complete, independent loop named incorrectly that would mislead travelers from the rest of the US who depend on the numeric designation to let them know what it does, where it goes.

do you really think anyone outside of this forum knows or cares about the interstate numbering conventions? do you really think NCDOT is going to spend all that money to change EVERY SINGLE SIGN (even the ones on the brand new section) because of some obscure idea? Hell no. Most people nowadays don't even know what road they're on, nor do they use the numbers themselves to guide them.

Its 540 and will remain as such. no one cares.

[wdcrft63]

This issue will never die in the Forum, but it's been dead for many years everywhere else.

[Katavia]

If it were to ever be "fixed", it would be fixed alongside all the other numbering inconsistencies in this state, at once.

This issue will never die in the Forum, but it's been dead for many years everywhere else.

Summed it up better than I could.

[sprjus4]

This issue will never die in the Forum, but it's been dead for many years everywhere else.

I think most on this forum have accepted it... it's the few that want to keep pushing the non-existent issue as being an issue.

[LM117]

Upcoming overnight closures on I-40 at US-70.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-15-i-40-closed-at-us-70.aspx

[bob7374]

Upcoming overnight closures on I-40 at US-70.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-15-i-40-closed-at-us-70.aspx

It appears they are at least temporarily opening the turbine interchange ramp to I-40 East as part of the detour. Hopefully, the bridge work over I-40 means the full ramp from US 70 (Future I-42) West to I-40 East is opening soon.

[architect77]

Get real. NCDOT isn't going to have a complete, independent loop named incorrectly that would mislead travelers from the rest of the US who depend on the numeric designation to let them know what it does, where it goes.

do you really think anyone outside of this forum knows or cares about the interstate numbering conventions? do you really think NCDOT is going to spend all that money to change EVERY SINGLE SIGN (even the ones on the brand new section) because of some obscure idea? Hell no. Most people nowadays don't even know what road they're on, nor do they use the numbers themselves to guide them.

Its 540 and will remain as such. no one cares.

LOL. Why do you think the entire interstate system went to all the trouble to create the naming convention in the first place? Why do you think those meetings take place with the feds applying, studying, and approving names in the first place?

My God, North Carolina purposely distinguished itself at the dawn of the automobile era as the "Good Roads State". To compete with the Northeast States, it worked to first pave the most miles of roads in the entire country, and it was famous for all the paved roads compared to mostly dirt roads in other states.

Look at the high standards of NC's highway infrastructure. The shoulder grading, culverts, railings, drainage are among the East Coast's best. The overhead signs and supports use the most expensive components, they spend more to round the corners (only NY & FL also do this on East Coast), and all were lighted up until advances in reflectivity reduced the need and expense of lighting the overheads.

Hell, the ubiquitous "BRIDGE ICES BEFORE ROAD" yellow signs at the 1000+ bridges across the state used to fold down in half for the spring/summer, and workers went to every one and folded/unfolded them twice a year.

The state built and maintains the nation's 2nd largest system with 80,000+ miles. You cannot overstate the historical priority and state pride in NCDOT. It's a shame I see quality standards for signage around Raleigh declining today.

Also they are always testing new methods and NCDOT continues to be on the forefront of advances in transporation infrastructure. Mistakes have cost them millions in replacing pavement, etc. but...

Have you ever seen the MOPAR report given to the state legislature every year or two? It's so comprehensive, well executed and expensive to produce....No other state publishes such a comprehensive report. NC's covers the state's $600 Billion in highway assets.

Do you really think one or two dozen I-540 shields are an expense to them? They've replaced so many shields and designations on I-85 especially around Greensboro, that the signs are all scarred up from so many changes. They charge wineries $60,000 or more for those signs with grapes along an interstate. The footings, engineering drawings required, and sign fabrication all must be done to NCDOT standards.

NC will not leave a complete loop until itself with an odd number designation like only 2 or 3 others in the entire country and those aren't all full loops anyway.

US drivers DO know what the even odd numbers indicate on the red, white, & blue interstate shields. They are SUPER IMPORTANT for visitors driving in unfamiliar areas for all of us.

No one cares or pays attention to all the other black and white state US shields like the 4 US70s in Johnston County though, you know, like the minutia discussed on here most of the time. My last post, I'm not a fanatic, but instead forever perplexed why anyone on here would insist or want 540 to remain.

[architect77]

The most recent NCDOT MOPAR reports have been basic because of the hurricanes' impact on NCDOT funding.

But here is a great example of the standards the agency is famous for:

https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/Asset-Management/MOPAR%20Docs/2016%20MOPAR%20Report.pdf

[sprjus4]

Technically, I-540 only runs between I-40 by RDU and I-87 by Knightdale. It is a spur route of I-40 and never reconnects. That meets the interstate numbering convention.

The remaining beltway is NC-540, a state highway.

[jdunlop]

Technically, I-540 only runs between I-40 by RDU and I-87 by Knightdale. It is a spur route of I-40 and never reconnects. That meets the interstate numbering convention.

The remaining beltway is NC-540, a state highway.

Technically, a 3-digit interstate running from one interstate to another, like I-540, can have an even first digit.  NCDOT requested that the road be renumbered once US 64 became I-495 (now I-87.). FHWA/AASHTO rejected it.  Staff isn't going to initiate a new request.  Any such request would likely need to be initiated politically.  And I haven't heard of any such desire other than from here.

[wdcrft63]

I only speak for myself, of course, but I don't "insist or want 540 to remain." I would be fine with changing it to 640. All I've ever said is that I don't think it will happen because I don't hear any pressure for a change outside this Forum.

[Strider]

I/NC-540 will stay put. They're not going to do any renumbering after the I/NC 540 Loop is fully completed. NCDOT did ask for it to be I-640 in the past and got rejected by AASHTO/FWHA, so they're going to leave it 540.

It's a done deal.

[The Ghostbuster]

Where would be a good place for an Interstate 640 to go, assuming one is ever proposed, which seems unlikely to me?

[NE2]

Where would be a good place for an Interstate 640 to go, assuming one is ever proposed, which seems unlikely to me?

Your driveway.

[PColumbus73]

Where would be a good place for an Interstate 640 to go, assuming one is ever proposed, which seems unlikely to me?

Your driveway.

The North Carolina Outer Outer Loop

[ARMOURERERIC]

I640 is being reserved for the Caton beltway 

[architect77]

I/NC-540 will stay put. They're not going to do any renumbering after the I/NC 540 Loop is fully completed. NCDOT did ask for it to be I-640 in the past and got rejected by AASHTO/FWHA, so they're going to leave it 540.

It's a done deal.

You should supply a source for this with dates after 2020. Or supply your employee badge with NCDOT. I'll be happy to place a monetary wager with anyone on this subject. They speak so matter-of-factly about something still unfinished that began in 1992. I have the original poster for the project.

[bob7374]

I/NC-540 will stay put. They're not going to do any renumbering after the I/NC 540 Loop is fully completed. NCDOT did ask for it to be I-640 in the past and got rejected by AASHTO/FWHA, so they're going to leave it 540.

It's a done deal.

You should supply a source for this with dates after 2020. Or supply your employee badge with NCDOT. I'll be happy to place a monetary wager with anyone on this subject. They speak so matter-of-factly about something still unfinished that began in 1992. I have the original poster for the project.

I think there's some confusion about the FHWA waiver and I-540, NCDOT sought a waiver to keep I-540, and it was granted. See post #116 from 2020 which I have copied below:
"This is not a new conversation. Here is the account from the Raleigh News and Observer's "Road Worrier" Bruce Siceloff back in December 2013:

'DOT favored the name I-640 more than 20 years ago when it was preparing to build the loop around our city, starting at I-40 near Research Triangle Park. But the feds were not persuaded back then that the new freeway would ever extend farther across North Raleigh than U.S. 1. So they called it a spur whose three-digit name must start with an odd number.'

Now, as noted in Cottone's comment, it's appropriate to rename the loop I-640. But the state DOT no longer prefers this name. So, as they've done with "connecting interstates"  in Pennsylvania and New York, the feds have agreed to ignore this rule.

When DOT officials requested a waiver from the feds' renaming requirement, they cited "public expectation, historic controversy, and economic burden of sign replacement."  Of course they weren't talking here about road-geek expectation.

Most drivers would find it confusing and wasteful to rename I-540. They would perhaps express their opinions by twerking in the streets, whatever that means.

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/traffic/article10288631.html#storylink=cpy

In short: It's the Feds that caused this problem."

[Strider]

I/NC-540 will stay put. They're not going to do any renumbering after the I/NC 540 Loop is fully completed. NCDOT did ask for it to be I-640 in the past and got rejected by AASHTO/FWHA, so they're going to leave it 540.

It's a done deal.

You should supply a source for this with dates after 2020. Or supply your employee badge with NCDOT. I'll be happy to place a monetary wager with anyone on this subject. They speak so matter-of-factly about something still unfinished that began in 1992. I have the original poster for the project.

No need. I LIVE in the state and you don't.

[Strider]

Where would be a good place for an Interstate 640 to go, assuming one is ever proposed, which seems unlikely to me?

Knowing NCDOT...they could apply I-640 to the next freeway. I will not be surprised if this one goes to US-1 between I-440 in Raleigh and I-85 near Henderson. LOL. Or maybe if they go with the freeway next to I-40 going from Dunn to Wilmington.

[LM117]

Upcoming closure at US-401 & Donny Brook Road.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-11-temporary-closure-540.aspx

The closure dates have been rescheduled.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-24-rescheduled-temporary-closures-540.aspx

[fillup420]

My last post, I'm not a fanatic

LOL dude youre making posts at 4am. If that doesn't scream Fanatic i'm not sure what does.

[NE2]

My last post, I'm not a fanatic

LOL dude youre making posts at 4am. If that doesn't scream Fanatic i'm not sure what does.

Night shift security job?