Mackinac Bridge congestion

[Molandfreak]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

[SEWIGuy]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

[Plutonic Panda]

I wonder how much a new bridge would cost today? I mean, it would have to be in the billions.

[Moose]

I wonder how much a new bridge would cost today? I mean, it would have to be in the billions.

Not only that, but from my foggy memory. The gist of why they went with tunnels in the study was (even in the late 90s when this was done) They could be built with precast parts that could be sunk and covered and unflooded. While someone else built the road segments, and a third party worked on the causeways and island. In probably less time then a bridge replacement.

A new bridge construction would have to deal with five (Or more) years of construction in weather that is often downright hostile. And worksite conditions they were okay in the 50s, would not fly 50 years later, so the construction was going to likely be much longer than the original bridge.

Even then the study stressed the best alternative was preservation of the existing span indefinitely was a far better option then anything else.

[Flint1979]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

[Flint1979]

I wonder how much a new bridge would cost today? I mean, it would have to be in the billions.

Well it was like $96 million in the 1950's so yeah probably just over a billion today.

[SEWIGuy]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

Bwahahahaha....

You are so silly.

[Flint1979]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

Bwahahahaha....

You are so silly.

Yeah I'm the one that's silly but you mentioned me again after having attacked me in this thread. What is your problem? Oh I don't agree that the Mackinac Bridge should have EZ-Pass? Really? Grow up.

[SEWIGuy]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

Bwahahahaha....

You are so silly.

Yeah I'm the one that's silly but you mentioned me again after having attacked me in this thread. What is your problem? Oh I don't agree that the Mackinac Bridge should have EZ-Pass? Really? Grow up.

"Attacked" you?  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Are you really this humorless? 

[Flint1979]

Let's see, posts #152 and 155 in this thread most certainly attacked me. You people don't even know what you are talking about anyway, I don't care how many people on here agree with you.

[Flint1979]

Oh and #226 was attempting to attack me as well when I hadn't said a word to you in several pages but oh here you are trying to stir the pot.

[SEWIGuy]

Let's see, posts #152 and 155 in this thread most certainly attacked me. You people don't even know what you are talking about anyway, I don't care how many people on here agree with you.

Oh and #226 was attempting to attack me as well when I hadn't said a word to you in several pages but oh here you are trying to stir the pot.

Yikes. Probably best for you to turn in for the night. Cause this is kind of embarrassing.

Wake up tomorrow with a more positive approach OK?

[Flint1979]

Let's see, posts #152 and 155 in this thread most certainly attacked me. You people don't even know what you are talking about anyway, I don't care how many people on here agree with you.

Oh and #226 was attempting to attack me as well when I hadn't said a word to you in several pages but oh here you are trying to stir the pot.

Yikes. Probably best for you to turn in for the night. Cause this is kind of embarrassing.

Wake up tomorrow with a more positive approach OK?

What's embarrassing? Not a damn thing. You can turn in for the night and wake up tomorrow with a more positive approach because you have not made no positive approach here.

[Flint1979]

You are the one that mentioned me and I replied and now your mad. Like I told you earlier, grow up. The Mackinac Bridge will most likely never have EZ-Pass because there is no benefit in getting it. You people think the lack of it causes backups on the bridge, it does not. The bridge is two lanes in each direction, often with a lane closed for maintenance or construction the toll plaza not accepting EZ-Pass is not the reason for any backups on the bridge. Then you say that I haven't given a valid reason why they shouldn't have it, I have been doing that the entire thread.

[Rothman]

Oy vey.  SMH.

[Plutonic Panda]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

Bwahahahaha....

You are so silly.

Yeah I'm the one that's silly but you mentioned me again after having attacked me in this thread. What is your problem? Oh I don't agree that the Mackinac Bridge should have EZ-Pass? Really? Grow up.

You are really coming off as a troll here. You just won't let go of the EZ Pass thing. That was brought up as an example of what could be used for the bridge. The overall tone or insinuation that I think most people are agreeing on this thread is that electronic tolling should be implemented that is also interoperable with other agencies. And nobody is attacking you.

[SEWIGuy]

You are the one that mentioned me and I replied and now your mad. Like I told you earlier, grow up. The Mackinac Bridge will most likely never have EZ-Pass because there is no benefit in getting it. You people think the lack of it causes backups on the bridge, it does not. The bridge is two lanes in each direction, often with a lane closed for maintenance or construction the toll plaza not accepting EZ-Pass is not the reason for any backups on the bridge. Then you say that I haven't given a valid reason why they shouldn't have it, I have been doing that the entire thread.

1. No you haven't. I decided days ago not to debate this any longer because you are simply being stubborn.

2. I'm not mad...at all. I am laughing at how personally you are taking was just a quip of a joke. Instead of letting something like that just roll off your back, you claim you are being "attacked." Which is wild.

Anyway, hope you had a good nights sleep. I sure did.

[Flint1979]

Of course it would be replaced. The economic health of the UP depends on it for tourism and access to the border, the universities up there, etc.

Which also begs the question why the Michigan Tourism Department, various chambers of commerce, and other business interests in the UP haven't put the pressure on the MBA to adopt a better business model for the MacPass at the very least, if not start doing ETC and accepting E-ZPass. People's vacations becoming a traffic nightmare benefits no one.

Because Flint runs the MBA.

I haven't said a word to you. Wtf are you trying to start?

Bwahahahaha....

You are so silly.

Yeah I'm the one that's silly but you mentioned me again after having attacked me in this thread. What is your problem? Oh I don't agree that the Mackinac Bridge should have EZ-Pass? Really? Grow up.

You are really coming off as a troll here. You just won't let go of the EZ Pass thing. That was brought up as an example of what could be used for the bridge. The overall tone or insinuation that I think most people are agreeing on this thread is that electronic tolling should be implemented that is also interoperable with other agencies. And nobody is attacking you.

Yeah because everyone on this thread are the know all of the Mackinac Bridge. You know everything about the Mackinac Bridge and I know nothing. That's what you are doing here. I cross the Mackinac Bridge multiple times a year and am pretty sure I know more about crossing the Mackinac Bridge than some random people on an internet forum that don't even live anywhere near the bridge.

[Rothman]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

[Flint1979]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

I cross the bridge more than a few times a year more like about 60-70 times. I know the bridge pretty well. Why can't you people come to terms that the toll plaza isn't the reason for backups at the Mackinac Bridge?

[bulldog1979]

Ok, time for some reality here. I'm a Yooper here and have family in the Northern Lower in the Straits Area. I attended college and lived downstate for several years. I've crossed the Mackinac Bridge hundreds of times, including as many as four times in a single day. I've been under it on a boat, walked it on Labor Day, been to the top of the south tower, and crossed it in cars, trucks, school busses, and charter busses. I've also applied for a job with the MBA.

I have an I-Pass. I got it when I lived in the Grand Rapids area because I expected to be visiting Chicago more often. I've used it more frequently on non-ISTHA roads, but I can go many years without using it. Most of the time though, it just sits on my windshield doing nothing. It's convenient when I get to use it, but it's mostly like having a foreign credit card that isn't unless I'm out of the country.

If the I-Pass worked at the Bridge, that would be a bit more convenient. I wouldn't save much time at the toll booth though. Those toll takers are very quick handling cash. It's even faster now that the toll is $4.00; things were slower when it was $1.50 or $2.50 because of the coins involved in the transactions. Those toll takers hold bundles of bills in their hands and make change very quickly without using their cash drawers.

I've looked at MacPass, and I think people here are confusing it for a general ETC program like E-ZPass/I-Pass. It's the replacement for the NFC cards that were a replacement for tokens. It is also the replacement for the commuter program so that commuters no longer have to request and save receipts to claim the free crossing within 36 hours. It's intended to be a local program for locals. Could it be more? Maybe.

The MBA has studied expanding MacPass and joining E-ZPass. For the authority, the economics don't seem to work for them. All of the armchair pontificating here will not replace that determination. They know the specifics on why it would cost too much for them to implement absent an actual requirement to do so. I'm sure that they continue to evaluate the situation, and if things change, they will make a change.

Personally, given the interoperability mandate, I think it was short-sighted to intentionally create an incompatible pass after the mandate's effective date. There's no enforcement to that mandate though, so they're getting away with it. Then again, the MacPass sticker transponders may be technically interoperable with what ISTHA is deploying for I-Pass, so they may have moved in a parallel direction toward future interoperability when and if the economics or the regulatory environment change.

Now, what the out-of-staters don't get. AET/ETC will not eliminate congestion at the bridge. Full stop. Much of this year's congestion is based on construction bottlenecks. You have a four-lane bridge that's effectively a two-lane bridge much of the time. Prime tourist traffic season is prime construction season. There's almost always a full or partial lane closed in each direction. When the trucks have a 20 mph speed limit and a lane is closed, the bridge backs up some. That is a fact of life. That's not even counting the times when they have to reduce speed limits or even implement escorts due to high winds. Sometimes, they even have to close the bridge completely due to winds or other weather.

Last fall, there was work on the US 2 interchange just north of the bridge that caused backups on I-75 and US 2 getting to the toll plaza southbound and eastbound. There was also construction on the causeway section of the bridge, narrowing it to a single lane in each direction. That's why I was stuck in traffic in St. Ignace for 45 minutes last fall. Nothing connected to how the tolls were processed would have changed that wait time. NOTHING. The toll takers were waiting for the traffic to clear the lanes to have the next vehicle approach; traffic was not waiting for the person in the booth.

Yeah, I've been through the toll plaza when they could have used a few more booths open to handle a surge in traffic, just as I've been to Walmart when they needed to call up cashiers to handle an unplanned rush. By and large though, the most congestion at the bridge isn't from the toll plaza in my experience.

The construction on the causeway and interchange backed up northbound traffic as well, so switching to toll collection in a single direction would not have expedited traffic. Once I got south of the causeway, traffic flowed normally on the bridge. On my return trip, once I got past the interchange, traffic flowed freely.

The only way to decrease congestion on the bridge is to expand the lanes or eliminate on-going maintenance of the span. Changing the payment method or eliminating tolling wouldn't change that reality.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ that is a very reasonable and well put discussion point. Thank you for adding to that. That makes much more sense than what the other guys saying that he's some expert on this bridge, getting hung up on the EZPASS, And claiming that nothing needs to be done.

Now I've never even been in the state of Michigan, but this thread has got me so interested about the subject. I'm gonna contact the department of transportation up there and ask for their reasoning of not implementing all electronic tolling.

[Plutonic Panda]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

I cross the bridge more than a few times a year more like about 60-70 times. I know the bridge pretty well. Why can't you people come to terms that the toll plaza isn't the reason for backups at the Mackinac Bridge?

Why can't you just come to terms with implementing all electronic tolling is just something that could help to some degree? On days when traffic isn't backed up, it would still allow for people to proceed without having to stop. Anyway, you look at it it's more efficient.

[Plutonic Panda]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not entirely convinced that this person is a troll or trolling. But it is very bizarre to me how much energy they are putting to die on this hill. It's just strange to me.

[Molandfreak]

"I cross the bridge a few times a year and oppose a measure that has reduced congestion everywhere else it has been implemented" is a weird flex.

When someone calls someone else out as a troll and then the alleged "victim" responds like this, maybe it's time to lock the thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not entirely convinced that this person is a troll or trolling. But it is very bizarre to me how much energy they are putting to die on this hill. It's just strange to me.

Which is why I thought they were trolling by saying that an entirely voluntary HOT lane system (MNPass) had more of a reason to integrate into E-ZPass than a mandatory toll bridge that is a similar distance away from the E-ZPass network. It's just bizarre and illogical reasoning to me.