Phoenix Area Highways

[kernals12]

There is nothing wrong with the existing state highway designations in the Phoenix area. Having multiple state highway designations on Loop 101, and especially Loop 202 would have been confusing.

As it is now, Loop 101 has two interchanges each with McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, Thunderbird, and Bell Rds.  One on each side of town.  The 202 has two each with McDowell, McKellips, Power, Higley, Val Vista, Gilbert, McClintock, and Rural Rds, plus 32nd St. One of those is McDowell and Gilbert together, but still...

When Detour Dan and the other traffic reporters mention those interchanges, they have to specify which named freeway they're on.  Sometimes they forget to do that, resulting in confusion.  Might as well just have separate numbers for each named freeway.

You're thinking of splitting 202 and 101 into two different interstates each? No way Jose. The only reason the problem you state exists is that Phoenix's arterials go on forever and that makes the city extremely easy to navigate.

[KeithE4Phx]

There is nothing wrong with the existing state highway designations in the Phoenix area. Having multiple state highway designations on Loop 101, and especially Loop 202 would have been confusing.

As it is now, Loop 101 has two interchanges each with McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, Thunderbird, and Bell Rds.  One on each side of town.  The 202 has two each with McDowell, McKellips, Power, Higley, Val Vista, Gilbert, McClintock, and Rural Rds, plus 32nd St. One of those is McDowell and Gilbert together, but still...

When Detour Dan and the other traffic reporters mention those interchanges, they have to specify which named freeway they're on.  Sometimes they forget to do that, resulting in confusion.  Might as well just have separate numbers for each named freeway.

You're thinking of splitting 202 and 101 into two different interstates each? No way Jose. The only reason the problem you state exists is that Phoenix's arterials go on forever and that makes the city extremely easy to navigate.

No way is ADOT going to renumber any of the loop freeways.  That horse left the barn once construction began.

[Rothman]

There is nothing wrong with the existing state highway designations in the Phoenix area. Having multiple state highway designations on Loop 101, and especially Loop 202 would have been confusing.

As it is now, Loop 101 has two interchanges each with McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, Thunderbird, and Bell Rds.  One on each side of town.  The 202 has two each with McDowell, McKellips, Power, Higley, Val Vista, Gilbert, McClintock, and Rural Rds, plus 32nd St. One of those is McDowell and Gilbert together, but still...

When Detour Dan and the other traffic reporters mention those interchanges, they have to specify which named freeway they're on.  Sometimes they forget to do that, resulting in confusion.  Might as well just have separate numbers for each named freeway.

You're thinking of splitting 202 and 101 into two different interstates each? No way Jose. The only reason the problem you state exists is that Phoenix's arterials go on forever and that makes the city extremely easy to navigate.

No way is ADOT going to renumber any of the loop freeways.  That horse left the barn once construction began.

I don't see anything preventing them from seeking Interstate designation for funding purposes.  Not sure why initial construction matters in this regard.

[kernals12]

I think the Superstition Freeway should definitely be designated an interstate. There's no need for it to share the US 60 designation with an arterial street on the other side of the valley.

[Max Rockatansky]

Pretty sure that ADOT would be much more agreeable not to putting US 60 back on segments of US 60X. 

[KeithE4Phx]

Pretty sure that ADOT would be much more agreeable not to putting US 60 back on segments of US 60X. 

It won't be possible, once ADOT rebuilds those segments of Main St./Apache Trail that it still has jurisdiction over.  That "US 60X" roadway will be turned over to Maricopa County once construction is done.

[KeithE4Phx]

I think the Superstition Freeway should definitely be designated an interstate. There's no need for it to share the US 60 designation with an arterial street on the other side of the valley.

There will not be any new interstates in Arizona other than those existing or allocated (I-11) now.  All proposed freeways will have state highway numbers, and the Superstition Fwy will remain as-is.

[kernals12]

I think the Superstition Freeway should definitely be designated an interstate. There's no need for it to share the US 60 designation with an arterial street on the other side of the valley.

There will not be any new interstates in Arizona other than those existing or allocated (I-11) now.  All proposed freeways will have state highway numbers, and the Superstition Fwy will remain as-is.

Is that an official decree?

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^

Anyone official asking for something other than I-11?

Pretty sure that ADOT would be much more agreeable not to putting US 60 back on segments of US 60X. 

It won't be possible, once ADOT rebuilds those segments of Main St./Apache Trail that it still has jurisdiction over.  That "US 60X" roadway will be turned over to Maricopa County once construction is done.

Yes, but are there actual formal plans to finish that finally?  That was actively being talked about in the early 2000s but never really went much of anywhere.  I'm sure ADOT would love to shed the mileage, not sure about the cities involved pertaining to taking over roadway. 

[KeithE4Phx]

I think the Superstition Freeway should definitely be designated an interstate. There's no need for it to share the US 60 designation with an arterial street on the other side of the valley.

There will not be any new interstates in Arizona other than those existing or allocated (I-11) now.  All proposed freeways will have state highway numbers, and the Superstition Fwy will remain as-is.

Is that an official decree?

Not necessarily, but it's been ADOT policy for decades, at least for urban freeways.  That's why I said I-11 is an exception.

[KeithE4Phx]

^^^

Anyone official asking for something other than I-11?

Pretty sure that ADOT would be much more agreeable not to putting US 60 back on segments of US 60X. 

It won't be possible, once ADOT rebuilds those segments of Main St./Apache Trail that it still has jurisdiction over.  That "US 60X" roadway will be turned over to Maricopa County once construction is done.

Yes, but are there actual formal plans to finish that finally?  That was actively being talked about in the early 2000s but never really went much of anywhere.  I'm sure ADOT would love to shed the mileage, not sure about the cities involved pertaining to taking over roadway.

Work started in February, and will (theoretically) take 2 years to complete.  All of this segment of Apache Trail is in unincorporated Maricopa County, not inside Mesa city limits.  That's why MCDOT will get the road.

https://azdot.gov/news/safety-project-improve-stretch-main-street-starting-mesa

[kernals12]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

[Plutonic Panda]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

[kernals12]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

There isn't a start date. They still need funding.

[Plutonic Panda]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

There isn't a start date. They still need funding.

Oh, that's right yeah, I remember now. There's still a vote coming up right to renew the dedicated funding for Phoenix area freeways?

[kernals12]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

There isn't a start date. They still need funding.

Oh, that's right yeah, I remember now. There's still a vote coming up right to renew the dedicated funding for Phoenix area freeways?

There is, but this freeway is mostly in Pinal County and, tragically, a sales tax vote there failed in 2022.

[Plutonic Panda]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

There isn't a start date. They still need funding.

Oh, that's right yeah, I remember now. There's still a vote coming up right to renew the dedicated funding for Phoenix area freeways?

There is, but this freeway is mostly in Pinal County and, tragically, a sales tax vote there failed in 2022.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I was thinking Maricopa county. That's a shame that sales tax failed. Hopefully, they find a way to get this freeway built soon.

[kernals12]

I just realized something: once the Pinal North-South Freeway is built, then, when combined with the Superstition, it will be a loop, at least in the way that Maricopa County defines "loop".

I haven't really looked in this project for a minute. When is it supposed to start construction again?

There isn't a start date. They still need funding.

Oh, that's right yeah, I remember now. There's still a vote coming up right to renew the dedicated funding for Phoenix area freeways?

There is, but this freeway is mostly in Pinal County and, tragically, a sales tax vote there failed in 2022.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I was thinking Maricopa county. That's a shame that sales tax failed. Hopefully, they find a way to get this freeway built soon.

It's not urgently needed right now although they should definitely start acquiring the right of way.

[Rothman]

For ROW acquisition funded with federal dollars, the phase is authorized only once design approval is achieved.

[kernals12]

What's ironic is that most of Phoenix's non interstate freeways are closer to interstate standards than actual Interstate 17 which lacks inside shoulders.

[Max Rockatansky]

The oldest parts of I-17 and the Black Canyon Freeway pre-date the Interstate system.  It wasn't designed with a ton of room to expand.

[RaulMtz]

There is nothing wrong with the existing state highway designations in the Phoenix area. Having multiple state highway designations on Loop 101, and especially Loop 202 would have been confusing.

As it is now, Loop 101 has two interchanges each with McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, Thunderbird, and Bell Rds.  One on each side of town.  The 202 has two each with McDowell, McKellips, Power, Higley, Val Vista, Gilbert, McClintock, and Rural Rds, plus 32nd St. One of those is McDowell and Gilbert together, but still...

If anything, I feel like the BGS need control cities at these interchanges. I had an issue with my parents who do not live here and are terrible at using GPS where I was trying to explain how to take AZ-202 to Gilbert coming from California on I-10. Mind you, this was back before the South Mountain Fwy section had opened, but it was under construction. I told them...

"Take the 202 eastbound but not the first time you see it. Take it the second time you see it. If you see the 202 right after you pass a tunnel, do not take that one. Wait some 10 more miles and you'll see it again."

Of course, it just so happened that right on that day they were making the drive, the construction crews had uncovered the first BGS that referenced AZ-202 for the South Mountain fwy section. So when my parents saw it, they thought that was the first 202 interchange. When they get to the Ministack, they got confused because it was the second time they saw the 202 but remembered I said not to take the one after the tunnel.

Thankfully, they made the right choice and waited until the "3rd time" they saw the 202 marked. But it goes to show how confusing it can be. In the very least, they should specify a control city for the loop freeways. Maybe EB AZ-202 shows Scottsdale at the Ministack, etc.

[jdbx]

There is nothing wrong with the existing state highway designations in the Phoenix area. Having multiple state highway designations on Loop 101, and especially Loop 202 would have been confusing.

As it is now, Loop 101 has two interchanges each with McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, Thunderbird, and Bell Rds.  One on each side of town.  The 202 has two each with McDowell, McKellips, Power, Higley, Val Vista, Gilbert, McClintock, and Rural Rds, plus 32nd St. One of those is McDowell and Gilbert together, but still...

If anything, I feel like the BGS need control cities at these interchanges. I had an issue with my parents who do not live here and are terrible at using GPS where I was trying to explain how to take AZ-202 to Gilbert coming from California on I-10. Mind you, this was back before the South Mountain Fwy section had opened, but it was under construction. I told them...

"Take the 202 eastbound but not the first time you see it. Take it the second time you see it. If you see the 202 right after you pass a tunnel, do not take that one. Wait some 10 more miles and you'll see it again."

Of course, it just so happened that right on that day they were making the drive, the construction crews had uncovered the first BGS that referenced AZ-202 for the South Mountain fwy section. So when my parents saw it, they thought that was the first 202 interchange. When they get to the Ministack, they got confused because it was the second time they saw the 202 but remembered I said not to take the one after the tunnel.

Thankfully, they made the right choice and waited until the "3rd time" they saw the 202 marked. But it goes to show how confusing it can be. In the very least, they should specify a control city for the loop freeways. Maybe EB AZ-202 shows Scottsdale at the Ministack, etc.

I just spent several days in The Valley moving my daughter in for another year of college, and that was a thought that struck me repeatedly as I was navigating around:  The complete lack of control cities on nearly all of the signage for any of the state freeway routes.  I-10 and I-17 all get the standard treatment, and even US-60 gets Mesa - Globe.   I'm aware that Arizona is generally a "big city" control city signer, the fact that they would mention Globe on the signs for US-60 suggests that there are exceptions.

I think it would at least be helpful to the traveling public to sign the communities served by the Loop x0x routes where they intersect with another freeway, especially Loop-202 which intersects I-10 three times.

[kernals12]

I think US 60 should have Mesa, not Globe, as its control city. I'll bet a majority of Maricopa County residents have never even heard of Globe except for those signs.

[Max Rockatansky]

Make it Miami.  Have something that points them in the direction of the Burger House and highly underrated Superior-Miami Highway.