Is road rage getting worse or what?

[jbnv]

I admit that I don't signal when no other cars or pedestrians are around.  I figure, "who am I telling my intended maneuvers to?" 

I think it's a good thing to have in muscle memory.

[theline]

I admit that I don't signal when no other cars or pedestrians are around.  I figure, "who am I telling my intended maneuvers to?" 

I think it's a good thing to have in muscle memory.

Agreed. You want to be signaling when you don't think anyone is around, just in case somebody unseen is there. I always signal lane changes, and I was really glad once on the Ohio Turnpike. I failed to see a car in the left lane. It was either in my blind spot or I just got a little distracted and didn't see it. The other motorist had to swerve to avoid me and got enough warning because she saw my signal.

If you don't always signal, you might forget to do so, just when it's needed most.

[wphiii]

People who hold up 20 cars behind them in morning rush hour traffic because they want to be nice and let someone out of the gas station parking lot or the school parking lot.

This.  Nothing infuriates me more than drivers who don't understand what right-of-way laws are or why they exist.  How they think that holding up 20 cars to let in one car, which didn't have the ROW, is "polite" is beyond me.

I.... really???  I'll try to remind you of that the next time you're the one waiting 5 minutes to get out of a parking lot waiting for a nonexistent gap in traffic.

(To answer your question of how it's polite, letting that one car "cut in line" delays the cars behind a few seconds.  Forcing that one car to wait for legitimate gap in traffic could -- at the extreme -- mean they're waiting the duration of rush hour.)

For real, the angst about that in this thread is truly baffling to me.

Like I said earlier, buy your gas at a different time of day. And soccer mom can put her kids on the bus.

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this site.

[SidS1045]

I'll try to remind you of that the next time you're the one waiting 5 minutes to get out of a parking lot waiting for a nonexistent gap in traffic.

I'll gladly wait.  I practice what I preach.

[SidS1045]

(To answer your question of how it's polite, letting that one car "cut in line" delays the cars behind a few seconds.  Forcing that one car to wait for legitimate gap in traffic could -- at the extreme -- mean they're waiting the duration of rush hour.)

I have no problem with a driver, who is waiting in a queue behind a red traffic signal, leaving a space to let someone in.  That delays no one who wasn't already stopped.  But we have enough stop-and-go driving in rush hours without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

[Pete from Boston]

(To answer your question of how it's polite, letting that one car "cut in line" delays the cars behind a few seconds.  Forcing that one car to wait for legitimate gap in traffic could -- at the extreme -- mean they're waiting the duration of rush hour.)

I have no problem with a driver, who is waiting in a queue behind a red traffic signal, leaving a space to let someone in.  That delays no one who wasn't already stopped.  But we have enough stop-and-go driving in rush hours without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

Using the information available to me as a driver of a separate vehicle, what information can I use to distinguish between drivers being polite and those pretending to be polite?  I just hate it when people pretend to be nice.

[jbnv]

... without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

This is the issue. The person who thinks he is being polite to one person is being rude to everyone behind him.

[agentsteel53]

oversignaling is a form of aggression as well.  let's say you're in the #2 lane, with your left blinker on.  you've effectively blocked the #1 lane.  if you don't get over in an expedient fashion (say, within 2 seconds of turning on that signal) then you're just as bad as someone driving directly down the middle of the lane stripe.

also, on arterials, signals can be pretty ambiguous.  let's say I'm waiting to take a right turn out of a driveway.  if someone is coming from my left and has their right signal on, I will never pull out in front of them.  are they signaling for a driveway upstream of me?  downstream of me?  the next cross road?  they've had their turn signal on since Burbank for health reasons?  who knows.

[Brandon]

oversignaling is a form of aggression as well.  let's say you're in the #2 lane, with your left blinker on.  you've effectively blocked the #1 lane.  if you don't get over in an expedient fashion (say, within 2 seconds of turning on that signal) then you're just as bad as someone driving directly down the middle of the lane stripe.

You have blocked the left lane using a signal?  Around here, Chicagoland, no one pays a signal any heed.  They'll just fly past him as if he didn't have his signal on.

[1995hoo]

What do you mean by "#1 lane" and "#2 lane"? I've never heard anyone use those expressions–with the exception of Brits, everyone I've ever known just says "right lane," "left lane," "second lane from the right," or the like. I've heard Brits say "inside lane" and "outside lane," although I gather they seem to use those terms in the reverse of what I would picture them as meaning (I would envision the "outside lane" as the "slow lane," the one closest to the edge of the road, and the "inside lane" as the "passing lane," the one closest to the median, the reason being in both cases that the median is "inside" the rest of the road).

[agentsteel53]

You have blocked the left lane using a signal?  Around here, Chicagoland, no one pays a signal any heed.  They'll just fly past him as if he didn't have his signal on.

around here, the blocker will move over, traffic present or not.  stupid and aggressive at the same time: not a winning combination.

[agentsteel53]

What do you mean by "#1 lane" and "#2 lane"? I've never heard anyone use those expressions–with the exception of Brits, everyone I've ever known just says "right lane," "left lane," "second lane from the right," or the like. I've heard Brits say "inside lane" and "outside lane," although I gather they seem to use those terms in the reverse of what I would picture them as meaning (I would envision the "outside lane" as the "slow lane," the one closest to the edge of the road, and the "inside lane" as the "passing lane," the one closest to the median, the reason being in both cases that the median is "inside" the rest of the road).

must be a California thing.  #1 lane is the closest to the median (in our case, leftmost).  #2 is one to the right, etc.

there should be a VMS message to occasionally rotate in with the nannies: "#2 traffic: stay out of the #1 lane."

[1995hoo]

What do you mean by "#1 lane" and "#2 lane"? I've never heard anyone use those expressions–with the exception of Brits, everyone I've ever known just says "right lane," "left lane," "second lane from the right," or the like. I've heard Brits say "inside lane" and "outside lane," although I gather they seem to use those terms in the reverse of what I would picture them as meaning (I would envision the "outside lane" as the "slow lane," the one closest to the edge of the road, and the "inside lane" as the "passing lane," the one closest to the median, the reason being in both cases that the median is "inside" the rest of the road).

must be a California thing.  #1 lane is the closest to the median (in our case, leftmost).  #2 is one to the right, etc.

there should be a VMS message to occasionally rotate in with the nannies: "#2 traffic: stay out of the #1 lane."

OK, thanks. I wasn't sure how it would work because, of course, we normally read from left to right, so numbering the lanes from left to right jibes with that, but on the other hand if you view the right lane(s) as the primary travel lane(s) it would also make sense to view the right-most lane as "#1" even if it meant "counting backwards."

[J N Winkler]

What do you mean by "#1 lane" and "#2 lane"? I've never heard anyone use those expressions–with the exception of Brits, everyone I've ever known just says "right lane," "left lane," "second lane from the right," or the like.

California and Britain have an identical lane counting system that runs from left to right regardless of circulation rule.  So, in California, the #1 lane is next to the median, while in Britain, the number of the lane immediately adjacent to the central reservation is the same as the total number of lanes in that direction on that section.

I've heard Brits say "inside lane" and "outside lane," although I gather they seem to use those terms in the reverse of what I would picture them as meaning (I would envision the "outside lane" as the "slow lane," the one closest to the edge of the road, and the "inside lane" as the "passing lane," the one closest to the median, the reason being in both cases that the median is "inside" the rest of the road).

This is correct.  There is also a distinction between nearside and offside, the nearside lane being closer to the kerb or shoulder at the outer edge of the road while the offside lane is closer to the road center (or central reservation) and is reserved for overtaking maneuvers.

Unlike lane counting systems, the nearside/offside distinction has the advantage of easy transposition to an opposite-hand circulation rule:  nearside is left in Britain but right in the US and other right-driving countries.  In spite of that, I hardly use these terms on this board since I don't feel they are well understood (unlike, say, "carriageway," another British import that is more widely understood and is arguably more fit for purpose than the made-up term interlane, bodging roadway to mean half of a divided road, or bodging lane to mean a half of a divided road that may have multiple traffic lanes plus shoulders).

[agentsteel53]

What do you mean by "#1 lane" and "#2 lane"? I've never heard anyone use those expressions–with the exception of Brits, everyone I've ever known just says "right lane," "left lane," "second lane from the right," or the like.

California and Britain have an identical lane counting system that runs from left to right regardless of circulation rule.  So, in California, the #1 lane is next to the median, while in Britain, the number of the lane immediately adjacent to the central reservation is the same as the total number of lanes in that direction on that section.

I feel like someone on this forum mentioned that Mass. had a British style rule (i.e., in the US, it means counting from right to left).  when I lived there, I had never heard of it, but I didn't do all that much driving.

the made-up term interlane

who made that one up?  "carriageway" is, while not intuitively obvious, at least isn't intuitively wrong - if I were faced with the term "interlane", I would equate it to "median".

[J N Winkler]

I feel like someone on this forum mentioned that Mass. had a British style rule (i.e., in the US, it means counting from right to left).  when I lived there, I had never heard of it, but I didn't do all that much driving.

I don't think I have heard of it either.  If it exists, I suspect it is a minority standard, like the Dvorak keyboard.  Massachusetts has a population of about 6 million while California and Britain have populations of 35 million and 60 million respectively.

the made-up term interlane

who made that one up?  "carriageway" is, while not intuitively obvious, at least isn't intuitively wrong - if I were faced with the term "interlane", I would equate it to "median".

I think I first saw it in a late 1940's/early 1950's forerunner to the present AASHTO Green Book:  you know, the kind of book that spells alignment "alinement" because it is more logical.

[roadman]

I feel like someone on this forum mentioned that Mass. had a British style rule (i.e., in the US, it means counting from right to left).  when I lived there, I had never heard of it, but I didn't do all that much driving.

Massachusetts does designate freeway lanes in ascending order from right to left (rightmost lane is # 1, etc.).  However, at present, only the State Police and the DOT's highway operations center use this nomenclature in internal communications only.  Lanes are never referenced by number by either the general public or the traffic reporters.

[jbnv]

there should be a VMS message to occasionally rotate in with the nannies: "#2 traffic: stay out of the #1 lane."

But, I usually have more urgency with #2 than with #1. Oh wait, you mean something else.

[Pete from Boston]

You know, I feel like people with their turn signal on who aren't changing lanes may be an annoying occurrence, but it is hardly frequent enough for me to get too upset about it.

In fact, I would say that being able to handle regular minor nuisances like this is pretty critical to being able to keep your sanity while driving and *not* dive into road rage.  Around here, anyway.  At a certain point, you kind of have to let a lot of it go.

[Brian556]

quote from jbnv:

But, I usually have more urgency with #2 than with #1. Oh wait, you mean something else.

With NE2 being MIA, we needed a little bowel humor.

[jeffandnicole]

You know, I feel like people with their turn signal on who aren't changing lanes may be an annoying occurrence, but it is hardly frequent enough for me to get too upset about it.

In fact, I would say that being able to handle regular minor nuisances like this is pretty critical to being able to keep your sanity while driving and *not* dive into road rage.  Around here, anyway.  At a certain point, you kind of have to let a lot of it go.

On a 3 lane highway, when trucks are prohibited from using the left lane, I'll watch some people stay back in the left lane if a trucker accidently still has his left turn signal on while in the center lane.  Either he's not going to get in the left lane because he doesn't belong there, or he can get aggravated that no one's letting him in the left lane...because he doesn't belong there.  Either way, stop holding up the left lane, and just pass the trucker!

This holds true also for roads with two or more lanes continuing straight.  If a driver is getting aggravated because they have their turn signal on and get merge over, so be it.  Both lanes are going straight.  They can wait for a gap.  I'm not letting them in just because they don't like the lane they're in.

In fact, the above just occurred yesterday...we were in the typical rush hour congestion and moving slowly. Some lady was literally stopped in the center lane with her turn signal on because she wanted to get to the left lane.  Instead of continuing forward, she allowed a 10 car gap to grow in front of her, because she wanted to get to the left lane.  When I passed her, you could see how pissed off she was that no one was letting her in.  Finally, she got in a car or two behind me.  About 2 miles later, she got back to the center lane (again, I could watch her, and it took a bit of time, even with her turn signal).  Since the highway was congested, she never saved any time, and moving to the left lane was clearly pointless.

[wphiii]

... without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

This is the issue. The person who thinks he is being polite to one person is being rude to everyone behind him.

No, the issue is that people are so selfish and ego-centric that they can't fathom five seconds of their time being worth it to spare someone else having to wait five minutes for an opening.

[Pete from Boston]

... without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

This is the issue. The person who thinks he is being polite to one person is being rude to everyone behind him.

No, the issue is that people are so selfish and ego-centric that they can't fathom five seconds of their time being worth it to spare someone else having to wait five minutes for an opening.

I think we are zeroing in on the very essence of the cause of road rage: people who value everyone's time and right of way either more or less than whoever is talking about it.

[jbnv]

... without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

This is the issue. The person who thinks he is being polite to one person is being rude to everyone behind him.

No, the issue is that people are so selfish and ego-centric that they can't fathom five seconds of their time being worth it to spare someone else having to wait five minutes for an opening.

What gives you the right to make that sort of assessment on the behalf of other people? To decide for yourself that they can be inconvenienced (further than they already are being in traffic) on behalf of someone else?

[Pete from Boston]

... without someone, pretending to be polite, who interrupts the free flow of traffic and effectively gives up the ROW of everyone behind him/her.

This is the issue. The person who thinks he is being polite to one person is being rude to everyone behind him.

No, the issue is that people are so selfish and ego-centric that they can't fathom five seconds of their time being worth it to spare someone else having to wait five minutes for an opening.

What gives you the right to make that sort of assessment on the behalf of other people? To decide for yourself that they can be inconvenienced (further than they already are being in traffic) on behalf of someone else?

Like it or not, a driver's license comes with myriad discretionary powers.  You use them in some ways, others do so in others.  Everyone is not always going to agree.