Time for “K12 in one thread?”

[kernals12]

Part of what is unfortunate is that you seem to be pretty good at digging up some interesting historical road related documents.  Trouble is that they get buried in weird things like all this 1984 business.  That and vast majority of what you post (especially lately) is this fictional tech stuff that seemingly nobody wants.

Yeah sure, my thoughts are clear on the 1984 stuff (which you seem to still not get).  You don't seem to get how annoying and downright aggravating it is bombard long running threads with tech nonsense.  That and your niche self centered personal philosophies on how you think urban development should have gone past tense is pretty unappealing.

While you've made it clear that you don't like my attitude towards you, what about you towards everyone?  You've been nothing but a jerk towards almost everyone who disagreed with you since you started on this forum. Having some basic courtesy would've helped you a ton with credibility.

The fact that I'm starting to think this person is a troll is more to do with them not explaining how changing the name of a mountain whether it be retroactively or not is Orwellian. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over. What the fuck is Orwellian about it? At this point, I'm well aware they change the name retroactively. For the umpteen time how is that Orwellian?

It's rewriting history. As SectorZ has pointed out, should they also start airbrushing old photos of state highway signs that had Swastikas on them?

[Max Rockatansky]

I wasn't even really aware of the term that we are discussing until I moved to Arizona in 2001.  Even then, I wasn't fully clear on how offensive term really is until I met my wife circa 2017.  My wife is very close to our niece, they were the ones who explained how her tribe sees it.  My niece has faced a lot of racism thrown her way in school, including the term we are talking about. 

I guess what really pissed me off was that K12 doesn't get that fiction doesn't always echo reality.  I (and at least one other poster) tried to steer him out of invoking Orwell.  Instead he doubled down on his thought and provided very context for it. 

To me that seemed to infer it that K12 used Orwell because he didn't believe the term to be offensive.  He hasn't said anything here that has convinced he doesn't believe that.  Perhaps he would like to elaborate in actual detail what he actually means?

But yes, Arizona in general has a history of revising/redacting historical documents to edit out disagreeable terms and symbols.  I don't personally see that as necessary but it isn't Orwellian either.  One is an ethnic slur and the other was a symbol that was co-opted by one of the most horrible governments in history.

Edit:  And yes, Arizona does airbrush the old state highway shields from online versions the Arizona Highways magazine.  I don't even think Jake Bear sells retro Arizona shields on his eBay store with the symbol on.

I don't think kernals12 is quite to the level of FritzOwl, MultiMillionMiler, or Poiponen13. The threads he creates might be ideas that don't work, but they feel like "this is a long shot proposal", not "there's absolutely no way this is happening" or "why did you make another thread where we name our favorite fictional sport". Compare 150 mph cars (kernals12) to 1000 mph cars (MMM).

He'd probably get less hate if he presented them as "this is a long shot, but what if..." instead of "this will happen" and "I think this is needed".  And if he wasn't as defensive about his ideas.  And if he wasn't posting multiple threads about the same stuff that most of the forum isn't interested in.

This is probably a lot clearer summary than what I wrote about why I created this thread and what the main problems at hand are.

[Plutonic Panda]

Part of what is unfortunate is that you seem to be pretty good at digging up some interesting historical road related documents.  Trouble is that they get buried in weird things like all this 1984 business.  That and vast majority of what you post (especially lately) is this fictional tech stuff that seemingly nobody wants.

Yeah sure, my thoughts are clear on the 1984 stuff (which you seem to still not get).  You don't seem to get how annoying and downright aggravating it is bombard long running threads with tech nonsense.  That and your niche self centered personal philosophies on how you think urban development should have gone past tense is pretty unappealing.

While you've made it clear that you don't like my attitude towards you, what about you towards everyone?  You've been nothing but a jerk towards almost everyone who disagreed with you since you started on this forum. Having some basic courtesy would've helped you a ton with credibility.

The fact that I'm starting to think this person is a troll is more to do with them not explaining how changing the name of a mountain whether it be retroactively or not is Orwellian. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over. What the fuck is Orwellian about it? At this point, I'm well aware they change the name retroactively. For the umpteen time how is that Orwellian?

It's rewriting history. As SectorZ has pointed out, should they also start airbrushing old photos of state highway signs that had Swastikas on them?

I don't really see that as rewriting history more as changing a name people found the be offensive. It's still in the history books. How many people is this really affecting? I really don't think you understand what Orwellian lore is.  You probably should just stick to hating on mass transit.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Part of what is unfortunate is that you seem to be pretty good at digging up some interesting historical road related documents.  Trouble is that they get buried in weird things like all this 1984 business.  That and vast majority of what you post (especially lately) is this fictional tech stuff that seemingly nobody wants.

Yeah sure, my thoughts are clear on the 1984 stuff (which you seem to still not get).  You don't seem to get how annoying and downright aggravating it is bombard long running threads with tech nonsense.  That and your niche self centered personal philosophies on how you think urban development should have gone past tense is pretty unappealing.

While you've made it clear that you don't like my attitude towards you, what about you towards everyone?  You've been nothing but a jerk towards almost everyone who disagreed with you since you started on this forum. Having some basic courtesy would've helped you a ton with credibility.

The fact that I'm starting to think this person is a troll is more to do with them not explaining how changing the name of a mountain whether it be retroactively or not is Orwellian. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over. What the fuck is Orwellian about it? At this point, I'm well aware they change the name retroactively. For the umpteen time how is that Orwellian?

It's rewriting history. As SectorZ has pointed out, should they also start airbrushing old photos of state highway signs that had Swastikas on them?

I don't really see that as rewriting history more as changing a name people found the be offensive. It's still in the history books. How many people is this really affecting? I really don't think you understand what Orwellian lore is.  You probably should just stick to hating on mass transit.

K12 is probably one of the pigs from Animal Farm in disguise who for some reason really doesn't like mass transit 

[Molandfreak]

Ah yes, more focus on users who are a bit annoying than users who are verbally abusive towards others and have not received any sort of punishment for it. SPUI once got post restricted for calling a user "extremely dense," which I would rank as orders of magnitude less abusive than calling a user a tyrant. This guy has admitted multiple times that he thinks the forum is a soapbox (while simultaneously saying that folks from outside the Great Lakes region shouldn't be allowed to comment in that board) and never contributes anything of value here.

[Plutonic Panda]

Part of what is unfortunate is that you seem to be pretty good at digging up some interesting historical road related documents.  Trouble is that they get buried in weird things like all this 1984 business.  That and vast majority of what you post (especially lately) is this fictional tech stuff that seemingly nobody wants.

Yeah sure, my thoughts are clear on the 1984 stuff (which you seem to still not get).  You don't seem to get how annoying and downright aggravating it is bombard long running threads with tech nonsense.  That and your niche self centered personal philosophies on how you think urban development should have gone past tense is pretty unappealing.

While you've made it clear that you don't like my attitude towards you, what about you towards everyone?  You've been nothing but a jerk towards almost everyone who disagreed with you since you started on this forum. Having some basic courtesy would've helped you a ton with credibility.

The fact that I'm starting to think this person is a troll is more to do with them not explaining how changing the name of a mountain whether it be retroactively or not is Orwellian. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over. What the fuck is Orwellian about it? At this point, I'm well aware they change the name retroactively. For the umpteen time how is that Orwellian?

It's rewriting history. As SectorZ has pointed out, should they also start airbrushing old photos of state highway signs that had Swastikas on them?

I don't really see that as rewriting history more as changing a name people found the be offensive. It's still in the history books. How many people is this really affecting? I really don't think you understand what Orwellian lore is.  You probably should just stick to hating on mass transit.

K12 is probably one of the pigs from Animal Farm in disguise who for some reason really doesn't like mass transit 

lol but on some real talk, is it just me or who else learned about animal farm during like kindergarten or elementary school? Like that was one of the first stories I learned right along other stories like the little boy who cried wolf. I mean, these are simple concepts presented in a simple way about a very convoluted issue that could become very serious one day as a warning. The fact that we or at least I in the class that I was in was taught stuff like this was kind of surprising now that I think about it.

And I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude, me and K 12 have been on good terms at times, but having Asperger's is not a get out of jail free card when you sit there and say dumb shit and people call you out on it. Trust me, I have problems of my own. I've been diagnosed with mental illnesses that I don't want to get into and I'm a drug addict, which doesn't help things any. I've had things that happens to me when I was a kid that wasn't too cool. But you know what I don't give a fuck about any of that shit because I'm not gonna go around trying to push my opinions on people and then use stuff like that as oh but I'm like this or that so here's my get out of jail free card. That kind of shit pisses me off.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Part of what is unfortunate is that you seem to be pretty good at digging up some interesting historical road related documents.  Trouble is that they get buried in weird things like all this 1984 business.  That and vast majority of what you post (especially lately) is this fictional tech stuff that seemingly nobody wants.

Yeah sure, my thoughts are clear on the 1984 stuff (which you seem to still not get).  You don't seem to get how annoying and downright aggravating it is bombard long running threads with tech nonsense.  That and your niche self centered personal philosophies on how you think urban development should have gone past tense is pretty unappealing.

While you've made it clear that you don't like my attitude towards you, what about you towards everyone?  You've been nothing but a jerk towards almost everyone who disagreed with you since you started on this forum. Having some basic courtesy would've helped you a ton with credibility.

The fact that I'm starting to think this person is a troll is more to do with them not explaining how changing the name of a mountain whether it be retroactively or not is Orwellian. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over. What the fuck is Orwellian about it? At this point, I'm well aware they change the name retroactively. For the umpteen time how is that Orwellian?

It's rewriting history. As SectorZ has pointed out, should they also start airbrushing old photos of state highway signs that had Swastikas on them?

I don't really see that as rewriting history more as changing a name people found the be offensive. It's still in the history books. How many people is this really affecting? I really don't think you understand what Orwellian lore is.  You probably should just stick to hating on mass transit.

K12 is probably one of the pigs from Animal Farm in disguise who for some reason really doesn't like mass transit 

lol but on some real talk, is it just me or who else learned about animal farm during like kindergarten or elementary school? Like that was one of the first stories I learned right along other stories like the little boy who cried wolf. I mean, these are simple concepts presented in a simple way about a very convoluted issue that could become very serious one day as a warning. The fact that we or at least I in the class that I was in was taught stuff like this was kind of surprising now that I think about it.

And I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude, me and K 12 have been on good terms at times, but having Asperger's is not a get out of jail free card when you sit there and say dumb shit and people call you out on it. Trust me, I have problems of my own. I've been diagnosed with mental illnesses that I don't want to get into and I'm a drug addict, which doesn't help things any. I've had things that happens to me when I was a kid that wasn't too cool. But you know what I don't give a fuck about any of that shit because I'm not gonna go around trying to push my opinions on people and then use stuff like that as oh but I'm like this or that so here's my get out of jail free card. That kind of shit pisses me off.

Animal Farm is one of the all-time greats indeed.

And as someone who is autistic as well, I agree with you on the whole "get out of jail free card" thing. It's a common misconception that autistic people can say whatever they want because of mental health issues. This isn't true IMO.

[formulanone]

My Buddhas in Christ, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, and Satan, please stop using these threads to pile onto users.

[kernals12]

My Buddhas in Christ, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, and Satan, please stop using these threads to pile onto users.

Is it offensive to say Ahura Mazda sounds like a dealership franchise?

[Plutonic Panda]

My Buddhas in Christ, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, and Satan, please stop using these threads to pile onto users.

Is it offensive to say Ahura Mazda sounds like a dealership franchise?

What?

[Plutonic Panda]

That has to do with Zoroastrianism. An an ancient Iranian religion. I guess I'm just not following here.

[Molandfreak]

That has to do with Zoroastrianism. An an ancient Iranian religion. I guess I'm just not following here.

I know. K12 was asking if it was offensive to point out that that could be the name of a Mazda dealership. I won't claim to know the answer to that for sure, but I would like to think Freddie Mercury (a prominent follower of that religion) would laugh along with jokes like that.

Actually, it looks like the car company Mazda was named after this Zoroastrian figure in the first place, so discussion about this is silly to begin with.

In my experience, followers of minority religions don't tend to take offense to jokes that aren't extremely poor in taste. My Sikh friends make "that's Sikh bro" jokes all the time, but I suppose that's different.

[kernals12]

That has to do with Zoroastrianism. An an ancient Iranian religion. I guess I'm just not following here.

Mazda is also the name of a Japanese Automaker. Ahura could be someone's last name. Put that together and it sounds like the name of an auto dealership

[Molandfreak]

That has to do with Zoroastrianism. An an ancient Iranian religion. I guess I'm just not following here.

Mazda is also the name of a Japanese Automaker. Ahura could be someone's last name. Put that together and it sounds like the name of an auto dealership

Surprise! It exists! (or at least used to exist).

[Plutonic Panda]

That has to do with Zoroastrianism. An an ancient Iranian religion. I guess I'm just not following here.

Mazda is also the name of a Japanese Automaker. Ahura could be someone's last name. Put that together and it sounds like the name of an auto dealership

All right well at this point I really don't know what the hell we're talking about so I'm just gonna slowly abstain from continuing to post in this thread. I guess it'll be interesting to see where this thread goes unless it gets locked.

[Scott5114]

I don't even think Jake Bear sells retro Arizona shields on his eBay store with the symbol on.

This is due to eBay policy, not ours. We can't even say "swastika" without triggering eBay's algorithms—our Arizona listings refer to it as a "whirling logs symbol".

We do sell historically-correct ones on signsbyjake.com. I'm always a little afraid of someone buying them for white-supremacy purposes (especially since we do sell AZ 88), but I imagine historical accuracy is the motivation for most of the customers.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't even think Jake Bear sells retro Arizona shields on his eBay store with the symbol on.

This is due to eBay policy, not ours. We can't even say "swastika" without triggering eBay's algorithms—our Arizona listings refer to it as a "whirling logs symbol".

We do sell historically-correct ones on signsbyjake.com. I'm always a little afraid of someone buying them for white-supremacy purposes (especially since we do sell AZ 88), but I imagine historical accuracy is the motivation for most of the customers.

I should clarify that I was fully confident that you and Jake would be willing to sell the real deal if contacted.  Jake has made a bunch of signs for me that were special orders. 

[PNWRoadgeek]

I don't even think Jake Bear sells retro Arizona shields on his eBay store with the symbol on.

This is due to eBay policy, not ours. We can't even say "swastika" without triggering eBay's algorithms—our Arizona listings refer to it as a "whirling logs symbol".

We do sell historically-correct ones on signsbyjake.com. I'm always a little afraid of someone buying them for white-supremacy purposes (especially since we do sell AZ 88), but I imagine historical accuracy is the motivation for most of the customers.

I should clarify that I was fully confident that you and Jake would be willing to sell the real deal if contacted.  Jake has made a bunch of signs for me that were special orders. 

Can you elaborate who this Jake Bear is? I've seen people talk about him in other threads.

[webny99]

Can you elaborate who this Jake Bear is? I've seen people talk about him in other threads.

Former and longtime most prolific forum user agentsteel53

[Max Rockatansky]

That and Jake is one of the big name in signage collecting circles.  He's also a license plate guy. 

[seicer]

Once again I appreciate you letting me live in your head rent free. And there's tons of empty space in here with your lack of any sort of imagination.

Yeah...did you really think I was going to let that insinuation about native Americans in the Phoenix thread slide?  My oldest niece who I was the legal guardian of is part Mono.  I had a feeling that I was onto something with the actual motivations with all this anti-mass transit stuff.  Looks as though I was on the right track. 

Many here actually contribute something to the road hobby.  Your pseudo science has little or nothing to do with road fandom at all.  You haven't done anything in this community to endear yourself to anyone or earn the slightest bit of respect.  Why are you even here when it is plainly obvious how disliked you are? 

Seriously though, this kid is a problem.  He's been kicked off Reddit for being a troll already.  Do we really need another on this forum?

I just had to look up his Reddit account. What a ... hot mess. In actuality, is K12 autistic? It would explain many of the ramblings and pie-in-the-sky proposals.

[SEWIGuy]

Many here actually contribute something to the road hobby.  Your pseudo science has little or nothing to do with road fandom at all.  You haven't done anything in this community to endear yourself to anyone or earn the slightest bit of respect.  Why are you even here when it is plainly obvious how disliked you are?

How are my speculations about driverless cars not part of road fandom?

I don't think kernals12 is quite to the level of FritzOwl, MultiMillionMiler, or Poiponen13. The threads he creates might be ideas that don't work, but they feel like "this is a long shot proposal", not "there's absolutely no way this is happening" or "why did you make another thread where we name our favorite fictional sport". Compare 150 mph cars (kernals12) to 1000 mph cars (MMM).

I was kinda with that line of thought until he compared Phoenix to the book 1984.  The reason he did that was because of how the city opted to remove a now offensive word from an AZ 51 planning document.  It more or less just confirmed what I suspected K12 was actually about for a long time.

But I'm going to disagree on this AI car stuff.  None of it is appreciably better than some of the things MMM was coming up.  It would be one thing if it was one thread, but it ain't.

I am simply opposed to altering historical records, is that a problem?

I do not agree that it is Orwellian one bit, but I do in general agree with this. If anything, put a disclaimer on the front of the document that indicates that this document reflects the original name, it was deemed offensive, and changed. I mean, the person they are honoring didn't die for another decade - that's just strange.

[SEWIGuy]

Once again I appreciate you letting me live in your head rent free. And there's tons of empty space in here with your lack of any sort of imagination.

"The Phoenix example had what I took as possible racially motivated undertones (although it wasn't overtly stated)."
If you're going to start lobbing unfounded accusations at me, then maybe I should start reading some sort of bigotry into your bullying of a guy with Aspergers.

Yeah, you can't go around being a d*ck like in the first paragraph, then claim to be a victim in the second.

[Max Rockatansky]

Once again I appreciate you letting me live in your head rent free. And there's tons of empty space in here with your lack of any sort of imagination.

"The Phoenix example had what I took as possible racially motivated undertones (although it wasn't overtly stated)."
If you're going to start lobbing unfounded accusations at me, then maybe I should start reading some sort of bigotry into your bullying of a guy with Aspergers.

Yeah, you can't go around being a d*ck like in the first paragraph, then claim to be a victim in the second.

I did get some amusement from it though. Especially considering I actually admin a highway page and was working new content for June 2025 when he posted that. 

Aside from that to my knowledge K12 has never before claimed a mental disability.  That might explain why he doesn't understand the issue I had with his 1984 Phoenix post.  While unfortunate it doesn't excuse it either (IMO).  It certainly doesn't give him a license to be snide with everyone who disagrees with him or to go off on one sided political rants (see his California related posts) about things he doesn't like.

[kernals12]

It certainly doesn't give him a license to be snide with everyone who disagrees with him or to go off on one sided political rants (see his California related posts) about things he doesn't like.

I'm only snide to those who are snide to me.