I-40 in North Carolina

[The Ghostbuster]

Nothing comes cheap nowadays.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Nothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year contract for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."

[bob7374]

Another slide on I-40 in the Pigeon River Gorge has delayed 2-lane opening indefinitely:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-12-20-i-40-gorge-delay.aspx

[Plutonic Panda]

I saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.

[webny99]

US 25-70 is not that bad for car traffic...

Sorry for bumping an old post... How is US 25-70 for trucks? Is it serviceable or are they better off taking the longer I-26 to I-81?

[Revive 755]

I saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.

It sounded to me to be for repairs for more in the surrounding area than just I-40.  $50 billion might be enough for a complete new terrain replacement.

[I-55]

I saw this video from PBS. Towards the end, the narrator claims permanent repairs are going to exceed $50 billion. Am I hearing that right? Maybe they just need to build a tunnel. But 50 billion can't be right.

It sounded to me to be for repairs for more in the surrounding area than just I-40.  $50 billion might be enough for a complete new terrain replacement.

For how much NCDOT builds new terrain alignments with a $5 billion annual budget I can barely fathom what $50 billion would build. They're already on sandbox mode, how far could they go?

[edwaleni]

Nothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year contract for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."

All that required terrain "pinning" the engineer was referring to is exactly why the original road assessment *didn't* want to use Pigeon Gorge. The report noted that the slope quality in this gorge was poor with a mix of rock and soil that was too malleable and subject to rock slides and other movement.

Based on how our European highway departments deal with these kinds of washouts....they clear out all of the loose rock and soil and build a reinforced concrete wall into the river/creek to force the water movement away. Then fill the remaining area inside the wall with a mix of gravel types and sealers with drainage included.

Judging on how much permit grief CSX is getting to rebuild the Nolichucky Bridge, I can't help but wonder if NCDOT will take a shortcut and not be so extensive in its remediation. Soil nailing and shotcrete won't mean much if they cant get the water redirected farther away from the embankment.

[Plutonic Panda]

Forgive me somehow I missed that video was posted here.

[PColumbus73]

Nothing new here, but some recent footage of the I-40 repairs along the Pigeon River. A one year contract for towing and recovery was just awarded with a start date of January 6, so I think the New Year's Day opening will be missed by a few days. That contract may be extended for two additional one year periods. As they said in the video, "that bottleneck will be there for some time to come."

All that required terrain "pinning" the engineer was referring to is exactly why the original road assessment *didn't* want to use Pigeon Gorge. The report noted that the slope quality in this gorge was poor with a mix of rock and soil that was too malleable and subject to rock slides and other movement.

Based on how our European highway departments deal with these kinds of washouts....they clear out all of the loose rock and soil and build a reinforced concrete wall into the river/creek to force the water movement away. Then fill the remaining area inside the wall with a mix of gravel types and sealers with drainage included.

Judging on how much permit grief CSX is getting to rebuild the Nolichucky Bridge, I can't help but wonder if NCDOT will take a shortcut and not be so extensive in its remediation. Soil nailing and shotcrete won't mean much if they cant get the water redirected farther away from the embankment.

Sounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.

[WashuOtaku]

Sounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.

Neither were cheap and took many years to complete.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sounds like they would get more for their money if they rebuilt it as an elevated highway, think the Linn Cove Viaduct or the H3 in Hawaii.

Neither were cheap and took many years to complete.

Good infrastructure is not cheap and doesn't get completed quickly.

[Chris]

Google Earth (the stand-alone computer program, not the satellite view in the browser version of Google Maps) has updated satellite imagery of the Pigeon River Gorge, dated November 25, 2024.

It provides a good view of the extent of the damage, as most press photos appear to be from only one of the locations.

There 17 sections where I-40 collapsed into the river. 5 on the Tennessee side, and 12 on the North Carolina side.

These are the ones on the North Carolina side:

[ZLoth]

FWIW... a time lapse video taken a few weeks before Helene:

[cowboy_wilhelm]

WLOS reports that repairs should be finished in mid-February, but reopening can't occur until a full geotechnical assessment is completed to ensure the roadway is safe. The current estimate is reopening sometime in the spring.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

WLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.

https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#

[Rothman]

WLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.

https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#

Not completely...

[wriddle082]

WLOS now reports I-40 will reopen March 1. The site was visited by USDOT Sec. Duffy, Senator Tillis, U.S. representatives Edwards and Moore, Governor Stein, NCDOT Sec. Hopkins, and others on Feb. 10.

https://wlos.com/news/local/us-secretary-transportation-sean-duffy-tours-interstate-40-damaged-helene-tennessee-state-line-hurricane-recovery-repair-haywood-county-north-carolina#

Not completely...

Still better than what we have now.

[wriddle082]

I saw a FB post earlier that explained that the two lane stretch will run from 5 miles into Tennessee up to Exit 7 in North Carolina.  So it will be one lane each direction through the WB tunnel at approx. MM 4, which to my knowledge has not occurred during the various lane closures due to road damage over the years.

Also the ongoing road work between Exits 15 and 20 replacing the Pigeon River crossing is still in place.  Probably involves resurfacing in addition to the bridge replacement.  NCDOT has generally tried to keep the pavement through the Gorge in pretty decent shape, or at least slightly better than TDOT has kept their much shorter stretch in the area.

[bob7374]

I saw a FB post earlier that explained that the two lane stretch will run from 5 miles into Tennessee up to Exit 7 in North Carolina.  So it will be one lane each direction through the WB tunnel at approx. MM 4, which to my knowledge has not occurred during the various lane closures due to road damage over the years.

Also the ongoing road work between Exits 15 and 20 replacing the Pigeon River crossing is still in place.  Probably involves resurfacing in addition to the bridge replacement.  NCDOT has generally tried to keep the pavement through the Gorge in pretty decent shape, or at least slightly better than TDOT has kept their much shorter stretch in the area.

Here's the official NCDOT press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2025/2025-02-11-i-40-gorge-open.aspx

[cowboy_wilhelm]

A $75 million contract has been awarded for what I am assuming are permanent repairs to I-40 from the Tennessee line to MM 5. Work should be completed in 2027.

https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/HAYWOOD%20C205077.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/Item%20C%20250214.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/Central%20Letting/02-14-2025%20Central%20Letting/Bid%20Tabs%20250214.pdf

[rickmastfan67]

I-40 to REOPEN TODAY (March 1st)!!!!!!

Speed limit will be capped @ 35mph.

[Henry]

I-40 to REOPEN TODAY (March 1st)!!!!!!

Speed limit will be capped @ 35mph.

So basically, a temporary Super-2?

[bwana39]

This is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?

It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.

[I-55]

This is just a curiosity question what would be the economics of two single direction lanes alternating with a more normal speed limit?

It would require a trail car. Trail as opposed to pilot. There would be a flagger at each end (probably more gate attendants) They would open the gate at one end and close it when it was empty or after a set time. The trail car follows the last car and stays in the back of all the cars. When it reaches the other end repeat the process the opposite direction.

I would think that one lane each way open 100% of the time at 35 mph would be better than two lanes in alternating directions at 45 mph (probably don't want the full 55 mph in a continuing work zone) that are only open about 40% of the time for each direction (as once the entrance is closed, there's no cars entering the circuit for 3ish minutes (I don't know how long this stretch would be)). More lost time in this scenario, it's not like this stretch of 40 (20k AADT) has the volume of 40 east of Asheville (50k AADT) or anything.