Bannered Routes That Don’t Make Sense

[D-Dey65]

I always felt that the designation "ALT US 301" for the Starke FL bypass was a bit odd.  I would have thought that it would be "BYP US 301" instead - or even better, to be main-line "US 301" and the former routing becoming "BUS US 301".

Not only do I think the Starke Bypass deserves to be designated mainline US 301 while the existing one should be Business US 301, but I think the same thing should be done to the Baldwin Bypass. Of course, there are a few other ideas about the Baldwin Bypass that should be different as well.

[PNWRoadgeek]

There are a few examples that bother me in Oregon, but I do not know why US 97 Business exists in Bend when half of it is just US 20 and the other half just has no advantage to driving on over the Bend Pkwy. The only reason it's there is because that's the old alignment of US 97 through Bend, and they probably want to "preserve" it.

[D-Dey65]

You know, I can't think of anything like that in New York.

[index]

All the truck routes in Watauga County, NC. US 221 Truck should just be mainline US 221, and mainline US 221 should become NC 105. US 321/421 Truck should be mainline US 321/421 (or bypass), and US 321/421 through downtown Boone should become business routes.

The de-facto NC 105 Bypass designation, although not an actual bannered route, doesn't make sense with its name. It doesn't take you around main NC 105 or connect you back to it.

US 74 Bypass around Monroe should probably become the main route or get congressionally designated as an odd I-x85 and have the US 74 Bypass designation removed. NCDOT clearly wants motorists to treat it as the main thoroughfare, seeing how they gave directional priority on US 74 to it. Giving it a secondary designation probably hurts that goal.

A lot of ALT designations are also pretty inconsistent (along with using A-suffixed routes instead of ALT banners for some). Why is the old alignment of US 74 in WNC half designated as Business, half as ALT? Why not just the whole thing as ALT? Why is US 221 ALT not US 221 Business if US 74 Business, serving a similar purpose, is right there? US 321 Business takes up US 321's old alignment in a lot of the towns along its route, except for Lenoir to Granite Falls, which is US 321A instead.

As mentioned earlier NCDOT doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason with bannering their routes. Why did they decide to do something sensible with the Asheboro Bypass but not the others?

[Molandfreak]

I'm not a fan of WV's recent adoption of BYPASS routes with US 19 in Beckley and US 522 at Berkeley Springs. Making the mainline route BUSINESS in both cases would seem to make more sense.

Maybe someone at WVDOT is on Travel Mapping and doesn't want people to lose their clinches?

US 14 in Brookings, SD has the same setup, but it also has an I-29 Business Spur that just follows mainline US 14 for two miles, which is much sillier.

So the 14 mainline/bypass split has been that way for at least as long as I can remember, depending on which side of town you're on you either get defaulted onto the mainline or the bypass. There really aren't business US routes in SD.

Now the business spur is basically a TM invention. If you're driving on I-29, the business spur is very well signed for Exit 132 in both directions, but there are no signs whatsoever on US 14/6th St. Back in the old CHM days, after biking around Brookings and field-confirming everything, I sat down in a hotel room in Brookings and laid out a plan for that route. It was originally in CHM as a Business Loop, but as there was no signage anywhere I had the idea to just route it along US 14 to downtown where the old loop route turned off. That way the route stayed (since there was the obvious consistent signage along I-29) but there was no new clinched mileage in the system (since the whole length of the "spur" is concurrent with US 14). I need to talk to DOT about getting those business spur signed off the BGS's, much like I need to email them about other things...

Now that there's another exit in Brookings, maybe they can have a second go at creating a business loop there.

[fillup420]

All the truck routes in Watauga County, NC. US 221 Truck should just be mainline US 221, and mainline US 221 should become NC 105. US 321/421 Truck should be mainline US 321/421 (or bypass), and US 321/421 through downtown Boone should become business routes.

The de-facto NC 105 Bypass designation, although not an actual bannered route, doesn't make sense with its name. It doesn't take you around main NC 105 or connect you back to it.

US 74 Bypass around Monroe should probably become the main route or get congressionally designated as an odd I-x85 and have the US 74 Bypass designation removed. NCDOT clearly wants motorists to treat it as the main thoroughfare, seeing how they gave directional priority on US 74 to it. Giving it a secondary designation probably hurts that goal.

A lot of ALT designations are also pretty inconsistent (along with using A-suffixed routes instead of ALT banners for some). Why is the old alignment of US 74 in WNC half designated as Business, half as ALT? Why not just the whole thing as ALT? Why is US 221 ALT not US 221 Business if US 74 Business, serving a similar purpose, is right there? US 321 Business takes up US 321's old alignment in a lot of the towns along its route, except for Lenoir to Granite Falls, which is US 321A instead.

As mentioned earlier NCDOT doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason with bannering their routes. Why did they decide to do something sensible with the Asheboro Bypass but not the others?

I went to App State, and i agree that the truck banners don't make much sense. Also US 221 and NC 105 should definitely switch spots. However, I don't think the current 105 needs to also be 321 and 421, those routes are fine through town. It would make more sense to sign bypass routes for 321/421 along 105 and the 105 Bypass.

US 74 Bypass in Monroe is probably labeled as such because its a toll road. Despite the fact that it's the most "worth it" toll road i've ever used, the main line through Monroe still carries a majority of the 74 traffic.

I think NCDOT's general rule with business vs ALT is based on if its in town limits or not.

One you didn't mention that I find a bit odd, is the signing of US 421 and NC 87 around Sanford. The bypass route is US 421/NC 87 BYPASS, whereas the original route is US 421 BUSINESS/NC 87. The routes are concurrent through the entire town, so why not sign both as bypass/business?

[roadman65]

ALT County Route 511 in Morris and Passaic Counties of NJ don't make sense. It's really a spur of CR 511 as it's south end is in Mountain View at NJ 23 no where's near it's parent.

If it was concurrent with US 202 from Lincoln Park to Boonton it would make sense, but the concurrency with US 202 goes the other way in Lincoln Park to Mountain View.

[bassoon1986]

At some point Alexandria, LA the alignment changed for the business route for US 165 and it doesn't make any sense other than probably reducing state mileage.

At the intersection of Bolton (bus LA 1 & 28) and Jackson (Bus US 165) Streets, now Bus 165 jogs back northwest rather than south to meet US 165 at the traffic circle where it used to.

The exit for Bolton St from US 71/MacArthur Dr now shows Pineville as a control city for Bus 165 which is especially silly. Nobody at that point on US 71 is going to backtrack that direction to the downtown bridge to Pineville when US 71 is about to cross into Pineville in one mile.

Arkansas has a lot of Spur state routes that don't make a lot of sense, usually just short spurs into a small town from the highway. Spur 7 in Hot Springs is an interesting one. Maybe someone can expound on that one. Was it meant to be a bypass of sorts from AR 7 to bypass downtown from the north?


iPhone

[SectorZ]

You know, I can't think of anything like that in New York.

No you guys just have religious themed ones apparently.

[xonhulu]

There are a few examples that bother me in Oregon, but I do not know why US 97 Business exists in Bend when half of it is just US 20 and the other half just has no advantage to driving on over the Bend Pkwy. The only reason it's there is because that's the old alignment of US 97 through Bend, and they probably want to "preserve" it.

Of the three US 97 BUS routes in Oregon, the Bend one gives me the least heartburn.  It's better signed than its Redmond counterpart, and definitely better signed and less confusing to navigate than the Klamath Falls version.

I'll point to four other Oregon examples:

US 30 BUS in Ontario: it doesn't really pass that many businesses, with most of its length in residential areas. Only the few blocks on its east end seem like a business route, and even then there are more businesses to be found on actual US 30 east of I-84.

US 30 BYP in Portland: once upon a time, this was probably a faster way across Portland, when US 30 traveled on surface streets through the heart of downtown. Now that 30 is routed on freeways and the improved Yeon Ave connection to I-405, BYP 30 is a slog compared to its parent.  And since the elimination of the half interchange at its eastern terminus on I-84, there's not even any signage on that freeway telling motorists how to get onto BYP 30. I'm pretty surprised it wasn't removed along with BUS 30, or at some point since then.  It may only owe its continued existence to keeping the St John's bridge on the state system.

US 101 BUS in Astoria/Warrenton: there are almost no businesses along this mostly-rural route even when it's in the city limits of both towns.  It should be re-designated as US 101 ALT or OR 105 ( its hidden hwy #). There's even one overhead sign where it is bannered ALT so maybe someone at ODOT agrees:



Lastly, OR 99E BUS in Salem: the route would make more sense if it went down S Commercial St instead of duplexing with OR 22, and if it actually connected with mainline OR 99E on its northern end.  I'd prefer to see it removed, with its northern segment along Dr MLK Jr (formerly Salem) Parkway re-designated as OR 72, its hidden hwy #.

And I'll just mention in passing this locally-signed unofficial BUS 30 in St Helens:

[pderocco]

What about US-30 BUS in Huntington? That's over seven miles long, just to serve four blocks of sparse retail businesses. Maybe it should have been left as US-30, rather like it is through Haines further north. But then La Grande has a mostly urban US-30. Why? I don't see the pattern here.

[xonhulu]

What about US-30 BUS in Huntington? That's over seven miles long, just to serve four blocks of sparse retail businesses. Maybe it should have been left as US-30, rather like it is through Haines further north. But then La Grande has a mostly urban US-30. Why? I don't see the pattern here.

While the Huntington Hwy is signed as BUS 30 on I-84, everything else I've ever seen, including ODOT documents and the signage along the road itself, say it's just US 30.  So the freeway signs are likely in error.

In the larger towns along I-84, ODOT uses 30 as BL 84, so it's not necessary to have a BUS 30.  That's another reason why the holdover BUS 30 in Ontario is weird, as that too could just be US 30.

[CoreySamson]

I think the current termini of US 90 ALT and US 90 Business in Houston doesn't really make much sense.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.797737,-95.2738339,6493m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

They co-terminate at each other at I-610, not at I-10/US 90. As such, US 90 Business does not end at US 90 at its western terminus, instead suddenly becoming US 90 Alt. And US 90 ALT has a basically unsigned concurrency with I-10 and US 90 as a result. To top it off, the area is confusingly signed, as some signs dating before the Crosby Freeway have not been changed over, leading to some parts of US 90 Business signed as US 90. I think all that is confusing. There are two potential ways that I could see this remedied to make it simpler:

1. Extend US 90 Business westward over US 90 ALT all the way to I-10/US 90, which would eliminate the multiplex with I-10 and US 90. It would also be a more logical terminus for US 90 Business.
2. Extend US 90 ALT eastward over the entirety of US 90 Business. This would simplify the corridor into one route and would avoid needless confusion.


There's also the situation somewhat nearby where the northern terminus of TX 288 Business ends past its northern interchange with TX 288, which is almost the opposite problem as the US 90 example:

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.2721213,-95.4548653,4200m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I don't know of any other business routes that end past their intersections with their parent route. I would support changing TX 288 Business here back to its old designation in the 90s, TX 227 (and maybe you could extend that up FM 521 as well while you're at it).

[Scott5114]

Nevada's ALT US routes really don't make a whole lot of sense, if you try to think about them as actually being alternates to the mainline US route. Nobody is going to follow any of them from end to end back to the mainline.

[Max Rockatansky]

Nevada's ALT US routes really don't make a whole lot of sense, if you try to think about them as actually being alternates to the mainline US route. Nobody is going to follow any of them from end to end back to the mainline.

NDOT had a hell of a time getting AASHTO to approve any of them.  Essentially the alternates ended up signed despite corridor rejections.  The signage was in place so long that the executive committee eventually relented.  It kind of makes sense given how against sub-300 mile intra-state US Routes AASHTO has been. 

The alternates are pretty handy if you are trying to cut some time off your travel.  One I used to use frequently was US 95A to get from US 50 to mainline US 95.  Sure beat having to slog all the way to Fallon.

[Scott5114]

The alternates are pretty handy if you are trying to cut some time off your travel.  One I used to use frequently was US 95A to get from US 50 to mainline US 95.  Sure beat having to slog all the way to Fallon.

Oh, they absolutely make sense as part of the state highway system, and arguably even as part of the US Route system. "Alternates" they ain't, though.

To me, the defining characteristic of an alternate route is, at the spot where they diverge, if someone says "Which route do I need to follow?" the correct answer is "it makes no difference" (or at the very least, something like "the mainline is shorter but the alternate is less steep"). That certainly isn't true with Nevada's alternate routes.

[pderocco]

The alternates are pretty handy if you are trying to cut some time off your travel.  One I used to use frequently was US 95A to get from US 50 to mainline US 95.  Sure beat having to slog all the way to Fallon.

Oh, they absolutely make sense as part of the state highway system, and arguably even as part of the US Route system. "Alternates" they ain't, though.

To me, the defining characteristic of an alternate route is, at the spot where they diverge, if someone says "Which route do I need to follow?" the correct answer is "it makes no difference" (or at the very least, something like "the mainline is shorter but the alternate is less steep"). That certainly isn't true with Nevada's alternate routes.

I grew up in New England. I'm used to alternates meaning, "This is the old version of the road, which is still useful and part of the state highway system, and eventually goes to the same place." To the driver, it usually implies roughly the same thing as a business loop, while to the state DOT, a business loop differs in that it is usually locally maintained. But where I grew up, state highways are allowed to have locally maintained sections, which is why there are no business routes.

[xonhulu]

I grew up with the impression that ALT routes were often less direct, and therefore slower, but usually more scenic than the mainline. There were exceptions, though, like ALT US 101 outside Long Beach, WA, which cuts off a considerable distance.

I always thought ALT US 50 was the oddball in Nevada. It has its independent & useful portion as a direct route between Fallon and I-80, then turns abruptly to pointlessly duplex with ALT 95 to get back to US 50. The ALT 95 and ALT 93 always seemed quite a bit less contrived to me.

Back on the original topic, another nonsensical bannered route is US 191 BUS in Douglas AZ. It's bizarre because according to the signage, US 191 ends at its junction with AZ 80 west of town.  However, a few miles east in Douglas, there is a signed US 191 BUS as a spur off 80 down to the Mexican border. So this BUS 191 doesn't even connect to its parent route. According to USEnds.com, this is the way the routes are defined in ADOT's records, so it isn't a signing error.  It's just weird.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

The alternates are pretty handy if you are trying to cut some time off your travel.  One I used to use frequently was US 95A to get from US 50 to mainline US 95.  Sure beat having to slog all the way to Fallon.

Oh, they absolutely make sense as part of the state highway system, and arguably even as part of the US Route system. "Alternates" they ain't, though.

To me, the defining characteristic of an alternate route is, at the spot where they diverge, if someone says "Which route do I need to follow?" the correct answer is "it makes no difference" (or at the very least, something like "the mainline is shorter but the alternate is less steep"). That certainly isn't true with Nevada's alternate routes.

All of them are great examples of what should be sub-300 mile intra-state US Routes.  Making them into alternates with bizarre loops back to the parent highways was the only way Nevada was going to get what they wanted.  So we are in agreement they don't make sense as alternates, but definitely do as three digit US Routes. 

[Max Rockatansky]

I grew up with the impression that ALT routes were often less direct, and therefore slower, but usually more scenic than the mainline. There were exceptions, though, like ALT US 101 outside Long Beach, WA, which cuts off a considerable distance.

I always thought ALT US 50 was the oddball in Nevada. It has its independent & useful portion as a direct route between Fallon and I-80, then turns abruptly to pointlessly duplex with ALT 95 to get back to US 50. The ALT 95 and ALT 93 always seemed quite a bit less contrived to me.

Back on the original topic, another nonsensical bannered route is US 191 BUS in Douglas AZ. It's bizarre because according to the signage, US 191 ends at its junction with AZ 80 west of town.  However, a few miles east in Douglas, there is a signed US 191 BUS as a spur off 80 down to the Mexican border. So this BUS 191 doesn't even connect to its parent route. According to USEnds.com, this is the way the routes are defined in ADOT's records, so it isn't a signing error.  It's just weird.

 

Arizona is one of those states that doesn't sign State or US Routes on road segments not owned by ADOT.  There is a gap on US 191 north of US 160 on Navajo Nation owned roadway to the Utah state line signed as "To US 191."

[xonhulu]

Arizona is one of those states that doesn't sign State or US Routes on road segments not owned by ADOT.  There is a gap on US 191 north of US 160 on Navajo Nation owned roadway to the Utah state line signed as "To US 191."

I last drove that stretch of road in 2005, and it was just signed as Navajo Route N12 then, as I immediately saw in the photo below once I turned north.  GSV shows the signage is still similar to this now:



Unfortunately, this gem on SB N12 approaching the junction with US 160 has been replaced with a more legible but otherwise identical sign:



And I was happy to see this 191 shield assembly is still there, complete with the bizarre "right-and-back" arrow (both directions are South 191?):



Now, that sign indirectly indicates the route you had just traveled was actually 191.  But, as you noted, the signage on US 160 says "TO 191," and as I remember, you don't see a 191 reassurance shield anywhere along that stretch of road until the Utah border.

Since pretty much every map, including the Arizona official hwy map, labels this road as part of US 191, this nit-picking signage can only create potential confusion.  But you've still gotta love the bureaucratic mindset in which that signage is necessary.

[Max Rockatansky]

Arizona is one of those states that doesn't sign State or US Routes on road segments not owned by ADOT.  There is a gap on US 191 north of US 160 on Navajo Nation owned roadway to the Utah state line signed as "To US 191."

I last drove that stretch of road in 2005, and it was just signed as Navajo Route N12 then, as I immediately saw in the photo below once I turned north.  GSV shows the signage is still similar to this now:



Unfortunately, this gem on SB N12 approaching the junction with US 160 has been replaced with a more legible but otherwise identical sign:



And I was happy to see this 191 shield assembly is still there, complete with the bizarre "right-and-back" arrow (both directions are South 191?):



Now, that sign indirectly indicates the route you had just traveled was actually 191.  But, as you noted, the signage on US 160 says "TO 191," and as I remember, you don't see a 191 reassurance shield anywhere along that stretch of road until the Utah border.

Since pretty much every map, including the Arizona official hwy map, labels this road as part of US 191, this nit-picking signage can only create potential confusion.  But you've still gotta love the bureaucratic mindset in which that signage is necessary.

Although, one could say that neither of these segments would be nearly as interesting if they weren't part of said bureaucracy.  If both were just signed "US 191" neither would be an interesting conversation piece.

[xonhulu]

Although, one could say that neither of these segments would be nearly as interesting if they weren't part of said bureaucracy.  If both were just signed "US 191" neither would be an interesting conversation piece.

That's very true.

And hardly the only Arizona oddity.  Their postmile system borders on clinical psychosis, for example.  This 191 nit-pickery is relatively mild by comparison.

[Bickendan]

Lastly, OR 99E BUS in Salem: the route would make more sense if it went down S Commercial St instead of duplexing with OR 22, and if it actually connected with mainline OR 99E on its northern end.  I'd prefer to see it removed, with its northern segment along Dr MLK Jr (formerly Salem) Parkway re-designated as OR 72, its hidden hwy #.

That used to be the routing for OR 99EB, but at some point, Commercial got pulled off the system. I suspect the primary reason that the Parkway got 99EB was there was no clean way to get 99E from Portland Road to the Parkway from Exit 258. It'd probably be better if Commercial were signed as 99EB, even as a non-ODOT maintained road like OR 8 on Gales Creek Rd, and OR 213 between Salem and Silverton.

[freebrickproductions]

To me, the defining characteristic of an alternate route is, at the spot where they diverge, if someone says "Which route do I need to follow?" the correct answer is "it makes no difference" (or at the very least, something like "the mainline is shorter but the alternate is less steep"). That certainly isn't true with Nevada's alternate routes.

Over here in Alabama, Alt. US 72 is the more direct route across the Tennessee Valley, and I believe might be a bit shorter than following US 72 all the way cross the state. In fact, the old Lee Highway followed what's now the route of Alt. US 72 between Huntsville and the Shoals.
IIRC, US 72 curving up into Florence and then running east to Huntsville through Athens was purely a political move by the politicians at the time, though I suppose there is an argument for it in the practical sense, given that Florence is home to the University of North Alabama and Athens has a college of its own too (plus, Florence is the largest city over there in the Shoals).