Ohio

[thenetwork]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

A Columbus to Toledo interstate via Lima definitely would not fly. I-75 from Toledo to Findlay is pretty much due south. As soon as you reach the current SR-15 to US-23 turnoff, I-75 immediately turns southwest to Lima.  No sane person would stay on I-75 to Lima just to backtrack on a bona-fide interstate to Columbus when for less time and mileage, one could do the SR-15/US-23 combo to Delaware and bail at US-36 east to I-71.

At the very least to ease congestion on US-23 south of Delaware, ODOT simply needs to create some sort of limited access, 4-laner to connect US-23 north (or immediately south of US-42) and east of Delaware to either US-36 or to I-71 directly.

[carbaugh2]

Interstate 75 is at least six lanes from Cincinnati to just north of Exit 74 in Troy. Are there any plans to expand 75 to six lanes between Troy and Findlay?

I think that the 75 rebuild in Lima was not done in a way to allow for an easier upgrade to 6 lanes. If Buck87 still roams the boards, he would have the most details.

[vtk]

Re: Columbus to Toledo freeway: I don't expect a feasibility study to come up with an answer besides "we could do it but it would be expensive so let's not". At this point the only way ODOT will actually do it is if it's declared politically important by the General Assembly, a Republican governor, or a Democratic governor (if we have one again) with support from prominent Republicans.

[Henry]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

For 30 years, I-73 and I-74 have been tied at the hip as part of a largely failed project. So to not include I-74 as part of the latest I-73 discussion is kind of a slap in the face, but then again, it already violates the grid when it ends in Cincinnati, and there really is no need to make that violation worse with the pointless extension.

[PColumbus73]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

For 30 years, I-73 and I-74 have been tied at the hip as part of a largely failed project. So to not include I-74 as part of the latest I-73 discussion is kind of a slap in the face, but then again, it already violates the grid when it ends in Cincinnati, and there really is no need to make that violation worse with the pointless extension.

Agreed on the first part. In general, I-73/74 is like 4 or 5 highway projects that were stitched together when it would have made more sense to keep them separate. On their own, an I-74 extension to I-64 is not a bad idea, just like a Toledo to West Virginia interstate is not a bad idea. In the Carolinas, the I-77 to I-40 leg of I-74 makes sense, so does a Roanoke to Myrtle Beach or Wilmington interstate. But combining it with a zig-zag through the mountains, when the WV Turnpike is a more direct route, I think makes the whole thing unpalatable.

[Strider]

The US 23 corridor should be upgraded to a freeway between Delaware and Columbus, though the latest proposal does not include this. Between Circleville and Columbus, only incremental improvements are planned. However, a full interstate corridor—Interstate 73—may be back on the table.

 Study to examine proposed Interstate 73 in Ohio
On February 25, 2025, the Ohio Legislature introduced House Bill 54, a measure designed to improve the state's transportation infrastructure and services. The bill allocates up to $2 million in Fiscal Year 2026 for a feasibility study on developing an Interstate Route 73 corridor to Toledo. The study will evaluate the potential for a new transportation route and its impact on regional development and economic growth.

I'm glad to hear they're still thinking about I-73. But, I-73 is not going to continue past Roanoke (if built in VA). I just can't see it happening and it wouldn't make any sense. I have always said I-73 should just serve SC, NC and VA.

[TempoNick]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

For 30 years, I-73 and I-74 have been tied at the hip as part of a largely failed project. So to not include I-74 as part of the latest I-73 discussion is kind of a slap in the face, but then again, it already violates the grid when it ends in Cincinnati, and there really is no need to make that violation worse with the pointless extension.

I don't know. It seems to me that a direct freeway between Cincinnati and Indianapolis isn't that unreasonable of a thing.

[Buck87]

Interstate 75 is at least six lanes from Cincinnati to just north of Exit 74 in Troy. Are there any plans to expand 75 to six lanes between Troy and Findlay?

I think that the 75 rebuild in Lima was not done in a way to allow for an easier upgrade to 6 lanes. If Buck87 still roams the boards, he would have the most details.

No plans that I'm aware of to widen any of that Troy to Findlay section, but it's been a bit since I dug into the TRAC list.

Regarding the Lima section, I remember reading an article stating that ODOT considered 6 laning it, but ultimately said they couldn't justify the extra $40 or so million it would have added to the project based on traffic counts at that time. I can't remember what the project as they did it cost, but I think it would have been well less of 50% of that total added on to the project.

And yes is was disappointing to see they didn't even make the bridges wide enough for 3 lanes while they building all those new ones, like what was done to I-90/OH 2 in Lorain county between the Turnpike and OH 611.

[TempoNick]

And yes is was disappointing to see they didn't even make the bridges wide enough for 3 lanes while they building all those new ones, like what was done to I-90/OH 2 in Lorain county between the Turnpike and OH 611.

Something is very wrong with the decision-making over there. Very, very wrong. I think it's time to clean house and I'm not just being a citizen crank complaining here. I understand if you're not rebuilding the bridges, but if you're rebuilding them and don't even account for future growth? Absolutely ridiculous.

[Henry]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

For 30 years, I-73 and I-74 have been tied at the hip as part of a largely failed project. So to not include I-74 as part of the latest I-73 discussion is kind of a slap in the face, but then again, it already violates the grid when it ends in Cincinnati, and there really is no need to make that violation worse with the pointless extension.

I don't know. It seems to me that a direct freeway between Cincinnati and Indianapolis isn't that unreasonable of a thing.

Well, on second thought, I find it amusing that an I-73 from Columbus to Toledo would actually fit in the grid, as that corridor is between I-71 and I-75, and yet the latter two are reversed. I don't mind the current I-73 in NC, in part because given its location east of I-77, no good numbers were available without duplicating some other one, like I-79.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Just curious; does I-75 need 3 lanes between Troy and Findlay?

[Buck87]

Just curious; does I-75 need 3 lanes between Troy and Findlay?

I don't know what the traffic totals are or anything official like that, but just going anecdotally from my experiences driving this section, yes it does. It's also the only section of 75 in Ohio that doesn't have at least 6 lanes, in fact the only section between the north end of the Detroit metro and Corbin, Kentucky

[tigerwings]

Just curious; does I-75 need 3 lanes between Troy and Findlay?

I don't know what the traffic totals are or anything official like that, but just going anecdotally from my experiences driving this section, yes it does. It's also the only section of 75 in Ohio that doesn't have at least 6 lanes, in fact the only section between the north end of the Detroit metro and Corbin, Kentucky

I drive the Findlay-Lima section often, it needs 3 lanes.

[I-55]

For AADT figures:

Troy to Sidney (Exits 74-90) 50-52k AADT
Sidney to Wapakoneta (Exits 94-110) 40-41k AADT
Wapakoneta to Lima (Exits 110-122) 35-39k AADT
Lima (Exits 122-127) 40-45k AADT
Lima to Beaverdam (Exits 127-135) 35-38k AADT
Beaverdam to Findlay (Exits 135-156) 33-34k AADT

As someone who mostly uses just the stretch south of Wapakoneta I've always advocated for six-laning this corridor. Looking at traffic figures I can justify widening at least from MM 74-110 as well as MM 122-127. For consistency you could widen between Wapakoneta and Lima (12 miles) but the 29 miles from Lima to Findlay don't meet the typical AADT threshold (I typically don't look at widening until at least 40k AADT, 50k is without a doubt).

[thenetwork]

^^Wasn't the stretch of I-75 between Findlay and Lima one of the earliest rural stretches built in the state Ohio, when it was just US-25? 

[GCrites]

At least some of it was, such as the Bluffton bypass.

[The Ghostbuster]

There used to be a US 25 sign at this location, even after US 25's 1974 truncation: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0923692,-84.5196145,3a,75y,353.47h,91.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sE881iItu0BHTeTd-RaX__Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.7918406307112775%26panoid%3DE881iItu0BHTeTd-RaX__Q%26yaw%3D353.474151971346!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D. It was removed sometime between 2001 and 2019 (https://www.usends.com/25.html). I think that would have been the perfect place for an End US 25 sign.

[route17fan]

US 25 still exists on this Ohio sign- https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0974545,-84.520349,3a,15.8y,277.04h,92.3t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sNVvv4DLRIJDs8DaP16A5kA!2e0!5s20241101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-2.301285196713877%26panoid%3DNVvv4DLRIJDs8DaP16A5kA%26yaw%3D277.03574265817457!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDMwNC4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExNDU1SAFQAw%3D%3D

[TempoNick]

I've long understood I-73 to be effectively dead north of I-81, it's interesting that there's a little bit of talk about it in Ohio.

For a Columbus-Toledo freeway, would US 33 a better choice? US 33 is already a freeway in the Columbus suburbs. There would need to be about 25-30 of new freeway to get it to I-75 in Lima.

A Columbus to Toledo interstate via Lima definitely would not fly. I-75 from Toledo to Findlay is pretty much due south. As soon as you reach the current SR-15 to US-23 turnoff, I-75 immediately turns southwest to Lima.  No sane person would stay on I-75 to Lima just to backtrack on a bona-fide interstate to Columbus when for less time and mileage, one could do the SR-15/US-23 combo to Delaware and bail at US-36 east to I-71.

At the very least to ease congestion on US-23 south of Delaware, ODOT simply needs to create some sort of limited access, 4-laner to connect US-23 north (or immediately south of US-42) and east of Delaware to either US-36 or to I-71 directly.

I've played around with the maps just for fun. An alternate route going up through Ada to connect to I-75 might work. You go a little out of your way, but didn't seem too bad not too bad. US 23 is still the best route, but there is kind of a jumble of things going on in Findlay. Going south a little to Ada might simplify things in Findlay.

[carbaugh2]

The US 23 corridor should be upgraded to a freeway between Delaware and Columbus, though the latest proposal does not include this. Between Circleville and Columbus, only incremental improvements are planned. However, a full interstate corridor—Interstate 73—may be back on the table.

 Study to examine proposed Interstate 73 in Ohio
On February 25, 2025, the Ohio Legislature introduced House Bill 54, a measure designed to improve the state's transportation infrastructure and services. The bill allocates up to $2 million in Fiscal Year 2026 for a feasibility study on developing an Interstate Route 73 corridor to Toledo. The study will evaluate the potential for a new transportation route and its impact on regional development and economic growth.

This bill (https://legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/136/hb54) unanimously passed the House and is now waiting for consideration by the Ohio Senate. While it includes the feasibility study for I-73, it also includes a provision that requires ODOT and the Turnpike Commission to provide preliminary engineering for a preferred alternative for a connector between I-71 and US 23 within 3 months of Gov. DeWine signing the bill. There are too many representatives in leadership positions (House Speaker, Senste President, House Finance Chair, etc.) for the provisions to get line item vetos.

[thenetwork]

Just drawing a few random lines for a north-central toll road segment connecting US-23, I see two pretty decent options:

1) A toll road connecting US-23/SR-15 by Carey and SR-420/I-280 by Stony Ridge, passing near Fostoria -- more or less paralleling the current 2-lane segment of US-23

2) A toll road further east connecting US-23/30 in Upper Sandusky with the Ohio Turnpike just west of Fremont, passing by Tiffin.  This would also provide a faster route for those traveling from Columbus to Cedar Point/Sandusky and the Lake Erie Islands/Port Clinton Area, instead of using SR-4.

[PColumbus73]

Just drawing a few random lines for a north-central toll road segment connecting US-23, I see two pretty decent options:

1) A toll road connecting US-23/SR-15 by Carey and SR-420/I-280 by Stony Ridge, passing near Fostoria -- more or less paralleling the current 2-lane segment of US-23

2) A toll road further east connecting US-23/30 in Upper Sandusky with the Ohio Turnpike just west of Fremont, passing by Tiffin.  This would also provide a faster route for those traveling from Columbus to Cedar Point/Sandusky and the Lake Erie Islands/Port Clinton Area, instead of using SR-4.

I think I-280 / OH 420 would be the favorite. It makes it easier to connect to Canada and Chicago. I guess they would rebuild the existing interchange to prioritize movements between the 'Columbus Spur' and the mainline Ohio Turnpike. Especially since it would parallel I-75 for 40 miles.

Assuming it becomes an interstate, I would expect Ohio to decommission US 23 north of Columbus.

[TempoNick]

Just drawing a few random lines for a north-central toll road segment connecting US-23, I see two pretty decent options:

1) A toll road connecting US-23/SR-15 by Carey and SR-420/I-280 by Stony Ridge, passing near Fostoria -- more or less paralleling the current 2-lane segment of US-23

2) A toll road further east connecting US-23/30 in Upper Sandusky with the Ohio Turnpike just west of Fremont, passing by Tiffin.  This would also provide a faster route for those traveling from Columbus to Cedar Point/Sandusky and the Lake Erie Islands/Port Clinton Area, instead of using SR-4.

I think it depends how much money they have and what they want to do. I don't see the need for a parallel route and I'm worried about tearing up too much farmland.

I would argue that since everything is a little tight and jumbled where Ohio 15 and I-75 meet, I would build a bypass around the east side of Findlay, connected to I-75 north of Findlay, and use that as a way to connect to the remainder of US 23 going south.

Of course, the funds may not be there, which I understand.

Alternatively, move the airport and they can do a better job with the existing connection.

[TempoNick]

Just drawing a few random lines for a north-central toll road segment connecting US-23, I see two pretty decent options:

1) A toll road connecting US-23/SR-15 by Carey and SR-420/I-280 by Stony Ridge, passing near Fostoria -- more or less paralleling the current 2-lane segment of US-23

2) A toll road further east connecting US-23/30 in Upper Sandusky with the Ohio Turnpike just west of Fremont, passing by Tiffin.  This would also provide a faster route for those traveling from Columbus to Cedar Point/Sandusky and the Lake Erie Islands/Port Clinton Area, instead of using SR-4.

I think I-280 / OH 420 would be the favorite. It makes it easier to connect to Canada and Chicago. I guess they would rebuild the existing interchange to prioritize movements between the 'Columbus Spur' and the mainline Ohio Turnpike. Especially since it would parallel I-75 for 40 miles.

Assuming it becomes an interstate, I would expect Ohio to decommission US 23 north of Columbus.

Only if Michigan builds. Otherwise, you're going to have to keep the US 23 signage.

This is exciting news to me if for no other reason than it's exciting to see Ohio build things again. There's nothing exciting about dozens of RIROs patchwork on an existing road. As a matter of fact, it's kind of infuriating.

[The Ghostbuster]

Any Interstate along the US 23 corridor should diverge from 23 at Carey, and follow OH 15 to Interstate 75. Since the Carey-to-US 20 segment is a two-lane highway with no bypasses, an upgrade to that segment of 23 is probably unnecessary (unless the traffic volumes of the corridor warrant an expansion to four lanes, which I doubt). The majority of through traffic between Carey and Findlay probably already use OH 15-to-Interstate 75 for Toledo-bound traffic anyway, so building a duplicate corridor along US 23 likely isn't needed.