More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

Started by monty, July 12, 2019, 04:23:31 PM

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silverback1065

Quote from: KelleyCook on November 18, 2024, 10:44:56 AM
Quote from: ysuindy on November 15, 2024, 10:17:41 PMHeading up 31 to Notre Dame tomorrow. So much faster than when I started making that trip 20 years ago

I too went to Notre Dame on Saturday. But I came from the north via the new US-31/I-94 freeflow intersection near Benton Harbor.

Again so much more convenient than my previous route.

I was originally very angry that they chose that design for that interchange, but after driving it in September it works great.


Great Lakes Roads

https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-laporte-district/marshall-fulton-us-31-access-control/

Public Open House - Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 5:00 p.m.

The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) will host an Open House on Thursday, March 13, 2025, to allow the public to review preliminary designs for safety improvements to three U.S. 31 intersections in Marshall and Fulton counties plus proposed Access Control changes to six other crossings in that U.S. 31 corridor between south of County Road 700 and north of 16th Road. The Open House is an opportunity to provide feedback to the team via written comment forms, in advance of a formal Public Hearing set for 2026.
-Jay Seaburg

silverback1065

I read "Access Control" as cul-de-sacs or J-turns. Nice to see interchanges at 10 and 110.

I-55

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 05, 2025, 08:17:17 AMI read "Access Control" as cul-de-sacs or J-turns. Nice to see interchanges at 10 and 110.

Kenworth Rd and 20 B Rd have less than 25 AADT where they cross US 31. 18th and 19th Rd verge about 200 vehicles per day on either side. I think cul-de-sacs are the no brainer here, but never underestimate INDOT's ability to not make sense on limited access highways.
Purdue Civil Engineering '24
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2025, 09:39:41 PMThe correct question is "if ARDOT hasn't signed it, why does Google show it?" and the answer as usual is "because Google Maps signs stuff incorrectly all the time"

webny99

Quote from: I-55 on March 05, 2025, 08:28:54 AM
QuoteI read "Access Control" as cul-de-sacs or J-turns. Nice to see interchanges at 10 and 110.

Kenworth Rd and 20 B Rd have less than 25 AADT where they cross US 31. 18th and 19th Rd verge about 200 vehicles per day on either side. I think cul-de-sacs are the no brainer here, but never underestimate INDOT's ability to not make sense on limited access highways.

"Access Control" could also just be a generic term and end up meaning different things for each intersection, especially considering this is still in the public feedback stage.

I obviously agree that cul-de-sacs are the logical option for anything under ~100 AADT.

bmeiser

"Submit your comments here" - links to a PDF that you have to print, fill out, scan, and email to somebody. They don't want to make that process easy, do they?

monty

#756
Access control appears in the Propel studies vary broadly, including roads, driveways and median crossings. I think median cable barriers also are in play.

INDOT currently has an access control project listed on the project map from SR 26 to SR 38 as the last piece of mostly freeway improvements in 2027 (Hamilton County)(Tipton County TBD).
monty

sprjus4

Quote from: monty on March 08, 2025, 02:27:40 PMAccess control appears in the Propel studies vary broadly, including roads, driveways and median crossings. I think median cable barriers also are in play.

INDOT currently has an access control project listed on the project map from SR 26 to SR 38 as the last piece of mostly freeway improvements in 2027 (Hamilton County)(Tipton County TBD).
Median cable barriers could be something that is installed regardless of freeway or divided highway. It's a good safety feature to prevent head-on crashes.

Great Lakes Roads

Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 05, 2025, 01:49:10 AMhttps://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/welcome-to-the-laporte-district/marshall-fulton-us-31-access-control/

Public Open House - Thursday, March 13, 2025 at 5:00 p.m.

The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) will host an Open House on Thursday, March 13, 2025, to allow the public to review preliminary designs for safety improvements to three U.S. 31 intersections in Marshall and Fulton counties plus proposed Access Control changes to six other crossings in that U.S. 31 corridor between south of County Road 700 and north of 16th Road. The Open House is an opportunity to provide feedback to the team via written comment forms, in advance of a formal Public Hearing set for 2026.

Here's what I have gathered from the presentation...

Preliminary Preferred Alternative:
Overpass at CR 700
Standard Diamond Interchange (Dogbone) at SR 110
Partial Cloverleaf Interchange (PARCLO-AB South) with four (4) roundabouts at SR 10
Closing off all access between SR 10 and SR 110 interchanges

2028-2029 Construction- US 31 at SR 10 and US 31 at CR 700
2030-2031 Construction- US 31 at SR 110 and Access Control
-Jay Seaburg

webny99

Quote from: monty on March 08, 2025, 02:27:40 PMINDOT currently has an access control project listed on the project map from SR 26 to SR 38 as the last piece of mostly freeway improvements in 2027 (Hamilton County)(Tipton County TBD).

Would the end result of this be a full freeway up to SR 26?

seicer

I think this puts it as a full freeway to the north end of Kokomo at SR 931. From the north, this would extend the freeway to SR 110?

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: seicer on March 13, 2025, 01:54:55 PMI think this puts it as a full freeway to the north end of Kokomo at SR 931. From the north, this would extend the freeway to SR 110?

I haven't seen any plans to eliminate the at-grade intersections between US 30 and IN 10.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
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monty

According to the Tipton County Highway Facebook post, INDOT will be installing cable barriers in the US 31 median this summer. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18vVDBiqx1/?mibextid=wwXIfr
monty

monty

monty

I-55

Quote from: monty on April 05, 2025, 02:23:54 PMINDOT median cable barrier installation and more US 31 corridor updates scheduled for 2025 & 2026 in Hamilton,Howard, and Tipton counties. https://view.subscription.in.gov/?qs=c09b26cd4b2e5c3a61cfa842aeb6c01972c61c46fd7310be79c8685794ebb30332c741b59a292b196f71beb8ab188764b6e624c3fe0bb76de90ea32c4edc0997a5ed7a1805cf5c08e0580a492b47f782

Leave it to INDOT to make US 31 interstate grade from I-465 to the Hamilton/Tipton County Line except for a RIRO one mile south of the county line and one mile north of an interchange they just built... great job guys.
Purdue Civil Engineering '24
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2025, 09:39:41 PMThe correct question is "if ARDOT hasn't signed it, why does Google show it?" and the answer as usual is "because Google Maps signs stuff incorrectly all the time"

Moose

Quote from: I-55 on April 05, 2025, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: monty on April 05, 2025, 02:23:54 PMINDOT median cable barrier installation and more US 31 corridor updates scheduled for 2025 & 2026 in Hamilton,Howard, and Tipton counties. https://view.subscription.in.gov/?qs=c09b26cd4b2e5c3a61cfa842aeb6c01972c61c46fd7310be79c8685794ebb30332c741b59a292b196f71beb8ab188764b6e624c3fe0bb76de90ea32c4edc0997a5ed7a1805cf5c08e0580a492b47f782

Leave it to INDOT to make US 31 interstate grade from I-465 to the Hamilton/Tipton County Line except for a RIRO one mile south of the county line and one mile north of an interchange they just built... great job guys.

Anything that isn't full on interstate grade with the idea of extending I-196 (in Michigan) to Indianapolis, is a damn waste of money.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Moose on April 07, 2025, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: I-55 on April 05, 2025, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: monty on April 05, 2025, 02:23:54 PMINDOT median cable barrier installation and more US 31 corridor updates scheduled for 2025 & 2026 in Hamilton,Howard, and Tipton counties. https://view.subscription.in.gov/?qs=c09b26cd4b2e5c3a61cfa842aeb6c01972c61c46fd7310be79c8685794ebb30332c741b59a292b196f71beb8ab188764b6e624c3fe0bb76de90ea32c4edc0997a5ed7a1805cf5c08e0580a492b47f782

Leave it to INDOT to make US 31 interstate grade from I-465 to the Hamilton/Tipton County Line except for a RIRO one mile south of the county line and one mile north of an interchange they just built... great job guys.

Anything that isn't full on interstate grade with the idea of extending I-196 (in Michigan) to Indianapolis, is a damn waste of money.


The Plymouth-Peru section has a lot of at grade intersections and isn't busy enough to justify that kind of money, at least not when 65 and 70 very badly need more sections with 6 lanes.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

The Ghostbuster

Extending Interstate 196 in either direction is a pipe dream, let alone extending it to Indianapolis. As much as I would like to see US 31 be completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I understand that the corridor will likely continue to be upgraded in a piecemeal fashion.

I-55

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 07, 2025, 12:21:03 PMExtending Interstate 196 in either direction is a pipe dream, let alone extending it to Indianapolis. As much as I would like to see US 31 be completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I understand that the corridor will likely continue to be upgraded in a piecemeal fashion.

My complaints aren't so much about an Indy-South Bend corridor as they are about the Indy-Kokomo corridor (which I think will be a freeway within 10 years). Yes, I would like to see the full freeway from Indy-South Bend like anyone else here, but the Indy-Kokomo stretch has been on the table for while now with the traffic counts to justify. I'm hoping the RIRO is a low cost, temporary intersection until the pieces come together to upgrade the remainder in Tipton County. It's still off-putting though that INDOT would go through all the work of building interchanges just to put crappy intersections next to them.

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 07, 2025, 11:54:10 AMThe Plymouth-Peru section has a lot of at grade intersections and isn't busy enough to justify that kind of money, at least not when 65 and 70 very badly need more sections with 6 lanes.

I agree that this area can remain as is for now. I-65 statewide and I-70 east of Indy should definitely have priority over 31. Meanwhile, INDOT (of course) thinks they need to upgrade 8 miles of 31 to freeway near Argos (not even connecting to the existing freeway beginning at US 30). Par for the INDOT course.
Purdue Civil Engineering '24
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2025, 09:39:41 PMThe correct question is "if ARDOT hasn't signed it, why does Google show it?" and the answer as usual is "because Google Maps signs stuff incorrectly all the time"

Moose

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 07, 2025, 11:54:10 AM
Quote from: Moose on April 07, 2025, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: I-55 on April 05, 2025, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: monty on April 05, 2025, 02:23:54 PMINDOT median cable barrier installation and more US 31 corridor updates scheduled for 2025 & 2026 in Hamilton,Howard, and Tipton counties. https://view.subscription.in.gov/?qs=c09b26cd4b2e5c3a61cfa842aeb6c01972c61c46fd7310be79c8685794ebb30332c741b59a292b196f71beb8ab188764b6e624c3fe0bb76de90ea32c4edc0997a5ed7a1805cf5c08e0580a492b47f782

Leave it to INDOT to make US 31 interstate grade from I-465 to the Hamilton/Tipton County Line except for a RIRO one mile south of the county line and one mile north of an interchange they just built... great job guys.

Anything that isn't full on interstate grade with the idea of extending I-196 (in Michigan) to Indianapolis, is a damn waste of money.


The Plymouth-Peru section has a lot of at grade intersections and isn't busy enough to justify that kind of money, at least not when 65 and 70 very badly need more sections with 6 lanes.

I am not saying it has to be all done now, But if your going to touch a section, DO IT RIGHT, and make it full Interstate grade..

Don't do a half baked job your going to need to come back and redo later.

This section is the poster child for that. Witness Kokomo.. The Bypass of a Bypass!

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 07, 2025, 12:21:03 PMExtending Interstate 196 in either direction is a pipe dream, let alone extending it to Indianapolis. As much as I would like to see US 31 be completely freeway between Indianapolis and South Bend, I understand that the corridor will likely continue to be upgraded in a piecemeal fashion.

It could be extended to South Bend now, and I'd think that area would be very much in favor of that.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

The Ghostbuster

If any Interstate designation were to be applied to the US 31 corridor from Indianapolis-to-South Bend (or northward into Michigan), it would be the Interstate 67 designation. And that is about as likely as successfully getting water to run uphill.

monty

#772
The ProPEL study to be released later this year will likely decide the fate of US 31 for the next twenty years. So far, the study generally favors a hybrid expressway and freeway combo with some full freeway interchanges mixed in with RIRO and J type turns. It does have a strong inclination to remove the majority of at-grade cross-overs.

I think INDOT will endorse this study recommendation across the "unfinished" sections as it is cost-efficient and will appease those who wish to eliminate "stops" on the entire Indy to South Bend corridor. This is illustrated by the RIRO scheduled at 276th St. - just a mile north of a full interchange. A hint at INDOT current logic.

In due time, my gut feeling is that 276th St to Kokomo will become the next completed segment to full freeway following the planned and funded Hamilton County segment under construction now.

The majority of houses with driveways in Tipton County have been purchased by INDOT and are being removed. The median cable barrier being installed this summer will likely close all the remaining private cross-over drives. There probably will be an interchange to replace the Division Road stoplight soon after the PEL study is complete. Then we wait for money / demand / safety needs to finish it.

There are three new water towers being erected in Tipton and Hamilton County along US 31 as I write. The Kokomo area is booming with new industry and housing starts. Hamilton County is forecast by some studies to be the second most populous county in the state by 2050. Tipton County is small and rural and will not require a lot of investment to achieve freeway standards.

My opinion - internally,  INDOT wants this completed sooner than the others but will spread the work out from Kokomo to US 30 to appease those communities with physical signs of progress. They contain the other four stoplights and they will "go away" first. Every stoplight remaining is a huge safety concern. That's expensive and so the "reduced conflict" rules will apply to save money. Then we wait.
monty

sprjus4

It'll be interesting if INDOT designed their right in / right out intersections like this, at least with full acceleration and deceleration lanes.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPsLCTk6kuA3TcXz9

As seen here on US-24 east of Fort Wayne, they consider this a "freeway" based on the speed limit being 65 mph here.

monty

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2025, 07:41:36 AMIt'll be interesting if INDOT designed their right in / right out intersections like this, at least with full acceleration and deceleration lanes.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPsLCTk6kuA3TcXz9

As seen here on US-24 east of Fort Wayne, they consider this a "freeway" based on the speed limit being 65 mph here.
The ProPEL study seems to suggest the accel and decel lanes. You raise an interesting point regarding speed limit. I have not been able to learn if the "upgrades" will result in a 65 mph speed limit. That would be welcomed.
monty



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