California

[The Ghostbuster]

Is CA 187 planned to be decommissioned in the future? I know it has been retracted twice (in 1988, and in 1994).

[Max Rockatansky]

Yes, it was supposed to have been full relinquished already:

https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE187.html

To that end when I checked in 2022 I couldn't find any segment of 187 in the Postmile Tool.  In fact you couldn't even pick 187 as an option.  I'm not sure why a small portion of it is back.

[pderocco]

The Caltrans GIS Data page has some stuff I didn't know about just clicking around it. For instance, Route 19 is now completely off the books, while small parts of Route 164 still remain. There are also small portions of former state highways that exist at freeway interchanges including Route 126 east of I-5 still on Magic Mountain Parkway, and Routes 187 and 1 in a couple spots. Also Main Street in Barstow between I-5 and I-40 is designated as part of Route 40, but no S or U.

I don't know how much to trust even this official site, since it isn't yet showing any trace of the Olancha/Cartago Bypass, or any of the new 58 between 99 and Coffee Rd in Bakersfield.

[cahwyguy]

I don't know how much to trust even this official site, since it isn't yet showing any trace of the Olancha/Cartago Bypass, or any of the new 58 between 99 and Coffee Rd in Bakersfield.

It is not updated in real time. I think they update it annually. The date is shown. Further, they don't update official postmiles until a project is completed.

[pderocco]

I don't know how much to trust even this official site, since it isn't yet showing any trace of the Olancha/Cartago Bypass, or any of the new 58 between 99 and Coffee Rd in Bakersfield.

It is not updated in real time. I think they update it annually. The date is shown. Further, they don't update official postmiles until a project is completed.

With modern computers and IT techniques, they should be able to update their GIS data at the very least when they open a new piece of road.

Also, when is 58 in Bakersfield "done"? when they've added the missing ramps to 99, which could be several years from now?

[cahwyguy]

With modern computers and IT techniques, they should be able to update their GIS data at the very least when they open a new piece of road.

Also, when is 58 in Bakersfield "done"? when they've added the missing ramps to 99, which could be several years from now?

Projects are probably not "done" until all the final paperwork is filed, which is likely sometime after a road is opened. After all, a road can be opened before all the landscaping is completed, before all the mitigation is completed, and before all the final contractor payments have been issued and the accounts for the project closed. Closing probably includes having a surveyor go out and measure the exact final points where the highway is (because things are never exact to plans), and it is these final points that would go into a GIS database.

[pderocco]

With modern computers and IT techniques, they should be able to update their GIS data at the very least when they open a new piece of road.

Also, when is 58 in Bakersfield "done"? when they've added the missing ramps to 99, which could be several years from now?

Projects are probably not "done" until all the final paperwork is filed, which is likely sometime after a road is opened. After all, a road can be opened before all the landscaping is completed, before all the mitigation is completed, and before all the final contractor payments have been issued and the accounts for the project closed. Closing probably includes having a surveyor go out and measure the exact final points where the highway is (because things are never exact to plans), and it is these final points that would go into a GIS database.

This all raises the question: who is the intended audience for the State Highway Network Lines dataset? Or for the Caltrans GIS Data in general? It must be intended for users who don't mind year-old data.

The site says that the data are extracted from the Transportation System Network (TSN) database, so I looked that up. I found a PowerPoint document that describes a project to replace TNS with TNSR (TNS Replacement, dumb name) using Federal funds, but it's a 2020 document, which leads me to wonder if this is going to take as long as modernizing the air traffic control system (decades).

[Max Rockatansky]

Based off current field signage I'm imagining part Rosedale and Mohawk will be State Highway until all movements on the Centennial Corridor Interchange are complete. 

[pderocco]

Based off current field signage I'm imagining part Rosedale and Mohawk will be State Highway until all movements on the Centennial Corridor Interchange are complete. 

They can always call it 58U.

[Max Rockatansky]

Based off current field signage I'm imagining part Rosedale and Mohawk will be State Highway until all movements on the Centennial Corridor Interchange are complete. 

They can always call it 58U.

I suspect it will be called that when the Postmile Tool is next updated.

[cahwyguy]

This all raises the question: who is the intended audience for the State Highway Network Lines dataset? Or for the Caltrans GIS Data in general? It must be intended for users who don't mind year-old data.

The site says that the data are extracted from the Transportation System Network (TSN) database, so I looked that up. I found a PowerPoint document that describes a project to replace TNS with TNSR (TNS Replacement, dumb name) using Federal funds, but it's a 2020 document, which leads me to wonder if this is going to take as long as modernizing the air traffic control system (decades).

My guess would be other state users, such as CHP, state surveyors, etc. I'd imagine there are legal users as well. In such case, infrequent updates are fine as year old data is reasonable for most government work (for if the project isn't closed, they can just go to the project's records).

Another audience would be researchers -- again, the most up-to-the-minute data isn't required.

It is clear their audience is not the general public (otherwise, the datasets wouldn't be buried where they are), and certainly not roadgeeks. You might think mapping services would be an audience, but we've already seen they don't care about labeling accuracy.

[bing101]

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/horrible-bottleneck-bay-area-bridge-improve-20269855.php?link_source=ta_first_comment&taid=67f94dc01d513f00015cac8d


I-580 Richmond-San Rafael Bridge to remove toll booths. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Has anyone heard about the earthquake near Julian, California? It has been posted by Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0239657,-116.5929394,19800m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D. For those who have not heard, here is some stories on it from Bing: https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=297&q=julian+earthquake&cvid=fbee0728b65944bf96f8c69108e9a1d4&gs_lcrp=EgRlZGdlKgYIABBFGDkyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQABhA0gEIODAzMGowajGoAgCwAgA&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS.

[Plutonic Panda]

An earthquake in california!? Lol

But yeah, I felt it a little bit in hollywood.

[pderocco]

Has anyone heard about the earthquake near Julian, California? It has been posted by Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0239657,-116.5929394,19800m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDQwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D. For those who have not heard, here is some stories on it from Bing: https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=297&q=julian+earthquake&cvid=fbee0728b65944bf96f8c69108e9a1d4&gs_lcrp=EgRlZGdlKgYIABBFGDkyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQABhA0gEIODAzMGowajGoAgCwAgA&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=DCTS.

I felt it pretty strongly about 25 miles SW of the epicenter. I was in a Teams meeting with people about 35 miles east of the epicenter, and they felt it about a second or two after me. It was strong enough there that they evacuated the building for about ten minutes.

[bing101]

Here is a tour of US-101 by Asphalt Planet. 

[Max Rockatansky]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

[jdbx]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

[Max Rockatansky]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

Certain lots of cover to hide a patrol car with stuff like Rocks Road and random-access driveways.

[Rothman]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

Certain lots of cover to hide a patrol car with stuff like Rocks Road and random-access driveways.

Heh.  Saw someone pulled over there last week.

[Max Rockatansky]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

Certain lots of cover to hide a patrol car with stuff like Rocks Road and random-access driveways.

Heh.  Saw someone pulled over there last week.

The corridor through Prunedale has always fascinated me.  It was once intended to be bypassed by way of a proper freeway alignment which would have been located just to the east.  The existing expressway pretty much has been blown out as much as it can be without actually being fully limited access.  If one looks close there are numerous places where the now blocked off left turn lanes are obvious.

[emory]

Per the Postmile Tool all that is left of 187 is Venice Boulevard at the ramps to I-10.  For awhile there was a similar necro-highway segment of 225 in Santa Barbara at a ramp to US 101. 

There's a few of those around. Route 1 has one at the US 101 ramps in Oxnard (have they still not Section 81'd Rice Ave?) and one at the I-10 ramps in Santa Monica. There's a bit of Route 126 on Magic Mountain Parkway. The section of Route 39 in Buena Park under the I-5 interchange was held onto, and Route 164 under the 60 freeway.

I was also under the impression that Route 213 only went as far as Carson Street, but both GIS and Postmile show that it now goes all the way to the 405.

[Max Rockatansky]

Per the Postmile Tool all that is left of 187 is Venice Boulevard at the ramps to I-10.  For awhile there was a similar necro-highway segment of 225 in Santa Barbara at a ramp to US 101. 

There's a few of those around. Route 1 has one at the US 101 ramps in Oxnard (have they still not Section 81'd Rice Ave?) and one at the I-10 ramps in Santa Monica. There's a bit of Route 126 on Magic Mountain Parkway. The section of Route 39 in Buena Park under the I-5 interchange was held onto, and Route 164 under the 60 freeway.

I was also under the impression that Route 213 only went as far as Carson Street, but both GIS and Postmile show that it now goes all the way to the 405.

Interesting to see those in the Postmile Tool.  The only one I was aware of was 213 touching 405. 

[Voyager]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

Certain lots of cover to hide a patrol car with stuff like Rocks Road and random-access driveways.

Heh.  Saw someone pulled over there last week.

The corridor through Prunedale has always fascinated me.  It was once intended to be bypassed by way of a proper freeway alignment which would have been located just to the east.  The existing expressway pretty much has been blown out as much as it can be without actually being fully limited access.  If one looks close there are numerous places where the now blocked off left turn lanes are obvious.

I wonder why it never was built (I think the alignment still shows up on maps to this day?) because the traffic backups in that area can be horrendous on weekends.

[Max Rockatansky]

That is the Eucalyptus forest near San Juan Bautista in cover image.   

An area where a surprising number of people whom I know have received speeding tickets, myself included (granted mine was 25 years ago).

Certain lots of cover to hide a patrol car with stuff like Rocks Road and random-access driveways.

Heh.  Saw someone pulled over there last week.

The corridor through Prunedale has always fascinated me.  It was once intended to be bypassed by way of a proper freeway alignment which would have been located just to the east.  The existing expressway pretty much has been blown out as much as it can be without actually being fully limited access.  If one looks close there are numerous places where the now blocked off left turn lanes are obvious.

I wonder why it never was built (I think the alignment still shows up on maps to this day?) because the traffic backups in that area can be horrendous on weekends.

There was just a lot of resistance to freeways being constructed in the Monterey area (which Prunedale more or is influenced by).  CA 68, CA 1 and CA 156 also had freeway adoptions which would have connected with the rest of the Freeways & Expressways system.  It is the largest metro area in the state without four lane outlet to the rest of the state.