RIP Pope Francis

[Big John]

For the Catholics in here. He was 88.

[GaryV]

For the Catholics in here

He was much more important to more people than just Catholics. A true incarnation of God's presence on earth who supported all of God's children. Whether Catholic or not, Christian or not.

[1995hoo]

Emphatically not the headline I expected to see this morning.

I find it interesting to note that Pope John Paul II died the Saturday after Easter and Pope Francis died the day after Easter (meanwhile, Pope Benedict XVI died on December 31). There is a school of thought that some people can sometimes manage to hang onto life if there is something imminent for which they want to be alive. Makes me wonder whether they were consciously able to hang on to make it through Easter Sunday.

[WillWeaverRVA]

For the Catholics in here

He was much more important to more people than just Catholics. A true incarnation of God's presence on earth who supported all of God's children. Whether Catholic or not, Christian or not.

Francis was probably the first pope I had some respect for (being a non-religious person). He was far from perfect but he was certainly a step in the right direction. Unfortunately in his latter years he did a bit of an about-face on some of his stances, but he was still a well respected figure by pretty much everybody.

[JayhawkCO]

For the Catholics in here

He was much more important to more people than just Catholics. A true incarnation of God's presence on earth who supported all of God's children. Whether Catholic or not, Christian or not.

Francis was probably the first pope I had some respect for (being a non-religious person). He was far from perfect but he was certainly a step in the right direction. Unfortunately in his latter years he did a bit of an about-face on some of his stances, but he was still a well respected figure by pretty much everybody.

I echo this sentiment. Seemed like a decent guy who tried to make some good reforms. Definitely a voice of tolerance which was welcome in this day and age.

[NE2]

!remindme 3 days

[mgk920]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.  They want something that is stable and traditional to rally around.  It will thus be very interesting, indeed, to examine the direction that the Cardinals go in the upcoming Conclave.

Mike

[kphoger]

Make the pope Catholic again.
[/religion]

[Rothman]

Make the pope Catholic again.
[/religion]

Heh.  Maybe like the movie Conclave predicts, there will be a push for a conservative Italian/Roman Pope...

[elsmere241]

Heh.  Maybe like the movie Conclave predicts, there will be a push for a conservative Italian/Roman Pope...

John Paul II was the first non-Italian pope in about four centuries.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Make the pope Catholic again.
[/religion]

Heh.  Maybe like the movie Conclave predicts, there will be a push for a conservative Italian/Roman Pope...

The interesting thing is a lot of the Italian cardinals who are supposedly candidates to be the next pope are just as progressive as Francis, most notably Cardinal Zuppi. Cardinal Tagle is from the Philippines and is also rather surprisingly progressive.

The most conservative cardinals in that grouping are actually American and African.

[kphoger]

John Paul II was the first non-Italian pope in about four centuries.

Because, to put it bluntly, the cardinals thought they could puppet-master the Polak.  But no puppet was JP2.

Francis, on the other hand, was already a ruckus maker before his installation as pope.

[roadman65]

I'm at a moment.  I mean people die all the time, but one given a title and responsibility has you ponder more than others death excluding close friends and family of course.

[SEWIGuy]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

[roadman65]

Many places within the Church are struggling as the numbers may be high, but attendance is down.

Many register as parishioners, but don't attend Sunday masses.   It pisses alot of people off because they are donating to the weekly basket and the rest of the deadbeats aren't only showing up at Mass, but not contributing a penny.

Some register only to be counted especially when matrimony comes. Then my mother registered my sister just to make her look good and to have a priest administer her matrimony because my sister was a convert to the Baptist faith.   So my sister was a Catholic in name only and not worshipping.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm not a Catholic and not religious.  That said, my wife is and does regularly attend church on Sundays.  Usually she will bring one of her nieces but on occasion asks me to take her.  I look it as more of a "quality time with me wife" thing rather than me taking up a faith. 

I do find reading the church financial statements to be fascinating.  As an outsider looking in I was quite surprised at how much people donate to keep the operation afloat.

[ClassicHasClass]

I'm not a Catholic and not religious.  That said, my wife is and does regularly attend church on Sundays.  Usually she will bring one of her nieces but on occasion asks me to take her.  I look it as more of a "quality time with me wife" thing rather than me taking up a faith. 

I do find reading the church financial statements to be fascinating.  As an outsider looking in I was quite surprised at how much people donate to keep the operation afloat.

Nothing's cheap, especially in California, and particularly if they run any local social services. I spent a good part of my formative years in the Salvation Army. Their finances are extremely complex.

[kphoger]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

Too lazy to look up sources now, but I learned a little bit about it recently.  At least in the UK and I think also in the US, the number of people who self-identify as regular attenders of religious services has been trending upward recently.  Most notable are that (1) the strongest growth in attendance has been among young males, a demographic that is trending quite a bit higher than in the recent past, and (2) the denominations with the strongest such growth are the Catholics and the Pentecostals.

[Rothman]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

Too lazy to look up sources now, but I learned a little bit about it recently.  At least in the UK and I think also in the US, the number of people who self-identify as regular attenders of religious services has been trending upward recently.  Most notable are that (1) the strongest growth in attendance has been among young males, a demographic that is trending quite a bit higher than in the recent past, and (2) the denominations with the strongest such growth are the Catholics and the Pentecostals.

Hm.  Wonder where this study came from.

[kphoger]

Hm.  Wonder where this study came from.

OK, I looked back at it.  The report is from Bible Society, which is based in Swindon.  If you look at the key highlights on their website, you also get a bunch of biased, subjective opinions.  But you can also download the report itself, although you do have to register (including your organization's name and your role within it) in order to do so.

You can look at people's reactions to the study on YouTube, but of course, going in, you have to keep their biases in mind.  If you search for "quiet revival", you should find one by Gavin Ortlund:  he is someone I respect very much, and someone who does not pounce on every new thing.  I've also watched the video on the Speak Life channel, which is a channel I was previously unfamiliar with:  it goes into greater detail about the study's findings.  Again, keep the video hosts' biases in mind, but also appreciate the data behind the videos.

[NWI_Irish96]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

Too lazy to look up sources now, but I learned a little bit about it recently.  At least in the UK and I think also in the US, the number of people who self-identify as regular attenders of religious services has been trending upward recently.  Most notable are that (1) the strongest growth in attendance has been among young males, a demographic that is trending quite a bit higher than in the recent past, and (2) the denominations with the strongest such growth are the Catholics and the Pentecostals.

I know in my town, the Episcopal church and the Presbyterian (USA) church have had to add services. Other denominations in town are losing people fast.

[SEWIGuy]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

Too lazy to look up sources now, but I learned a little bit about it recently.  At least in the UK and I think also in the US, the number of people who self-identify as regular attenders of religious services has been trending upward recently.  Most notable are that (1) the strongest growth in attendance has been among young males, a demographic that is trending quite a bit higher than in the recent past, and (2) the denominations with the strongest such growth are the Catholics and the Pentecostals.

Right. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's "strong." It's marginal at best.

[Henry]

I'm not a Catholic, but it saddens me all the same when a pope dies. Francis will forever go down in history as the one who broke the papal mold by doing all the things his predecessors never did, and it also helps that he was the humblest, most caring pope who made it his mission to reach out to all faiths. I'm beginning to believe that we'll never find another pope like Francis, but after stretching the boundaries for his role, I can't be too sure of that. We'll see in 15-20 days when his successor is named.

[kphoger]

Right. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's "strong." It's marginal at best.

If I'm remembering the numbers correctly, the number of people aged 21-ish who attend church regularly has risen from 1 in 20 to 1 in 7.  (Someone else, correct me if I'm wrong.)  Nearly tripling is not what I'd call 'marginal growth'.

[JayhawkCO]

Right. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's "strong." It's marginal at best.

If I'm remembering the numbers correctly, the number of people aged 21-ish who attend church regularly has risen from 1 in 20 to 1 in 7.  (Someone else, correct me if I'm wrong.)  Nearly tripling is not what I'd call 'marginal growth'.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd be shocked if it were that high.