RIP Pope Francis

[SEWIGuy]

Right. But I wouldn't necessarily say it's "strong." It's marginal at best.

If I'm remembering the numbers correctly, the number of people aged 21-ish who attend church regularly has risen from 1 in 20 to 1 in 7.  (Someone else, correct me if I'm wrong.)  Nearly tripling is not what I'd call 'marginal growth'.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd be shocked if it were that high.

Yeah that doesn't sound remotely accurate.

[LilianaUwU]

Now that he's dead, let's remove most religious holidays from the calendar of civic holidays.

[SEWIGuy]

Now that he's dead, let's remove most religious holidays from the calendar of civic holidays.

In the United States, there is one such holiday. Christmas. And it could be argued that it's as much of a civic holiday as a religious one these days.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Now that he's dead, let's remove most religious holidays from the calendar of civic holidays.

In the United States, there is one such holiday. Christmas. And it could be argued that it's as much of a civic holiday as a religious one these days.

Indeed, the most popular Christmas tradition is spending obscene amounts of money at like 12:08 am the day after Thanksgiving.

[roadman65]

I went the other day to try a Butter Burger at Culver's.  The place was empty.  I went in to check to see that they're not like Chick Fil A being closed on Sunday, but the sign on the door says open daily 10:30 AM to 10 PM. It was 7 pm on Sunday and yet doors locked.  Thought they went out of business as I've seen businesses close and keep signs up and no mention that they've closed. So I figure bye bye Culver's.

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

[kphoger]

I went the other day to try a Butter Burger at Culver's.  The place was empty.  I went in to check to see that they're not like Chick Fil A being closed on Sunday, but the sign on the door says open daily 10:30 AM to 10 PM. It was 7 pm on Sunday and yet doors locked.  Thought they went out of business as I've seen businesses close and keep signs up and no mention that they've closed. So I figure bye bye Culver's.

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

I'm surprised there wasn't a note on the door.  I've seen that before at fast food places, such as on Thanksgiving.

[SEWIGuy]

I went the other day to try a Butter Burger at Culver's.  The place was empty.  I went in to check to see that they're not like Chick Fil A being closed on Sunday, but the sign on the door says open daily 10:30 AM to 10 PM. It was 7 pm on Sunday and yet doors locked.  Thought they went out of business as I've seen businesses close and keep signs up and no mention that they've closed. So I figure bye bye Culver's.

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

Yep. They are always closed on Easter. A number of places that are usually open on Sunday are though. I don't think this is unusual.

[1995hoo]

I went the other day to try a Butter Burger at Culver's.  The place was empty.  I went in to check to see that they're not like Chick Fil A being closed on Sunday, but the sign on the door says open daily 10:30 AM to 10 PM. It was 7 pm on Sunday and yet doors locked.  Thought they went out of business as I've seen businesses close and keep signs up and no mention that they've closed. So I figure bye bye Culver's.

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

I'm surprised there wasn't a note on the door.  I've seen that before at fast food places, such as on Thanksgiving.

We walked over to a grocery store on Sunday afternoon and passed three businesses that had temporary signs in the window saying "Closed Easter Sunday" (some typed, some handwritten). It was sort of amusing to see how shocked some people were to find a store closed when we passed one of them.

[kphoger]

I don't think this is unusual.

I would never go to a business on Easter, find it locked up, and then assume...

... they went out of business ...

[Scott5114]

Of course, if you're not religious (or if you are and you don't do anything special for it), it's pretty easy to not realize it's Easter. The method for determining when it falls isn't terribly straightforward.

Last spring, I went to the Tropicana just before it closed. I needed to use the bathroom, and I had to wander around in a maze of turned-off slot machines and forgotten hallways to find it. When I got there, there was a man in a bunny suit in the bathroom, carrying a small stuffed carrot. It was entirely surreal, but I just wrote it off as Vegas being Vegas. It wasn't until I left the casino that I realized it was Easter.

[kphoger]

I just wrote it off as Vegas being Vegas. It wasn't until I left the casino that I realized it was Easter.

I think it's hilarious that Easter was only your second thought.  If he'd had a basket of eggs, then I'm sure you'd have figured it out immediately.

[JayhawkCO]

Of course, if you're not religious (or if you are and you don't do anything special for it), it's pretty easy to not realize it's Easter. The method for determining when it falls isn't terribly straightforward.

Last spring, I went to the Tropicana just before it closed. I needed to use the bathroom, and I had to wander around in a maze of turned-off slot machines and forgotten hallways to find it. When I got there, there was a man in a bunny suit in the bathroom, carrying a small stuffed carrot. It was entirely surreal, but I just wrote it off as Vegas being Vegas. It wasn't until I left the casino that I realized it was Easter.

I had no idea it was Easter until my mom wanted to send something to my son for the holiday. Especially for religious holidays that move dates, I have no visibility.

[kphoger]

In contrast, I'd never been as aware of Easter's date as I was this year.  That's because our church congregation moved locations, to a new build site, and Easter was our 'launch date' at the new location.  So I've been involved in moving days, work project days, a/v wiring and sound checks, extra music rehearsals, and two 'soft launch' church services—all in preparation for Easter.

[Scott5114]

I just wrote it off as Vegas being Vegas. It wasn't until I left the casino that I realized it was Easter.

I think it's hilarious that Easter was only your second thought.  If he'd had a basket of eggs, then I'm sure you'd have figured it out immediately.

I'm not so sure! It is hard to live in Las Vegas without being able to just take the absurd in stride. Eventually it just becomes normal. Man in a bunny suit, yup, that tracks for a Sunday at the Trop.

A couple examples: On my wife's way to her first day at work, she saw a billboard with a lawyer's phone number and the text "Injured looking for dead bodies at Lake Mead? Demand compensation!" Not too long after that, we saw a news story about a mysterious obelisk that had been installed on Gass Peak, which I had just learned was the name of the mountain to the north of where we lived. (Apparently the organization responsible for handling mysterious mountain obelisks is the police department, in case you were wondering.) Then there was the Henderson bread incident...

[roadman65]

I just wrote it off as Vegas being Vegas. It wasn't until I left the casino that I realized it was Easter.

I think it's hilarious that Easter was only your second thought.  If he'd had a basket of eggs, then I'm sure you'd have figured it out immediately.

Why.  It didn't take long afterwards to hope that it was Easter. Plus who closes on a non federal holiday on a Sunday these days.  Hell airlines fly more flights on Christmas Day ( a holiday that's not only religious but secular as well) despite for years people made travel plans before Christmas Day as the purpose of celebrating Christmas is to spend a whole quiet day with family.  Not traveling to get there and spend only part of a holiday celebrating.

I worked in the hospitality industry and we had no holidays unless your were in management.  When you suggested religious holidays off you would be laughed at.  All hands work Christmas and Easter and that was it!

As far as going out of business Whataburger, a very busy restaurant, closed in Central Florida at a moments notice leaving stores empty only for you to notice that they're closed for good.

To me closing for Easter is very strange other than Chick Fil A, and they make known that they celebrate Sunday.  Of course many people have publicly chastised them for closing Sundays.

Plus some on here even admitted they forgot it's Easter as the GP don't make important anymore  like they used to.  That's the same reason why the hospitality industry don't close on Easter and if they realize it's Easter it's to make extra money like Mothers Day.

[SEWIGuy]

My guess is that a lot of Culvers' workers, many who are teenagers, ask off anyway.

[kphoger]

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

We walked over to a grocery store on Sunday afternoon and passed three businesses that had temporary signs in the window saying "Closed Easter Sunday" (some typed, some handwritten).

Plus who closes on a non federal holiday on a Sunday these days.

Anecdotally, we're up to four in this thread, plus apparently all of the other Culver's locations.

[english si]

Now that he's dead, let's remove most religious holidays from the calendar of civic holidays.

Was Frank the guy demanding you had a Bank Holiday on Friday? I don't see what the Bishop of Rome has to do with Canadian holidays, given its a country with no established church, let alone that established church being Roman Catholicism.

If you want such holidays removed, go talk to those standing for election in your riding and see if they would do it if they became your MP.

Yeah that doesn't sound remotely accurate.

Are you an expert on UK church going habits?

I've not yet found someone on the ground in the UK church who has been surprised by these figures. They might be surprised by the growth that is happening, but the figures ring true to those with their ears to the ground. It surprised society - hence why the Bible Society decided to publish the report of the poll data under the title 'quiet revival' - 50% more people going to church regularly is noticeable. But when you start from a small percentage, one-and-a-half times that small percentage is still a small percentage and you don't notice it.

There is zero reason to give a false report of attending church more than you used to to a secular polling company about this. Especially as being a regular church goer still has a negative social stigma in the UK (though less than in 2014). Especially if you are a young male!

Whenever I've heard UK people write articles or go on podcasts for the US audience to talk about challenges of post-Christianity, and the decline of the church, etc - the number they always give is 20 - that the UK is 20 years ahead of the US on that decline. The context of this 'quiet revival' is very different to any US context.

There is a school of thought that some people can sometimes manage to hang onto life if there is something imminent for which they want to be alive.

The Queen held out until two days after the Tory leadership election results. She had a new PM to kiss hands with at the end of the summer and she made sure she did that constitutional duty.

[roadman65]

Found out next day from employee that to Culver's owners Easter is a Civic holiday and gave staff the day off.

We walked over to a grocery store on Sunday afternoon and passed three businesses that had temporary signs in the window saying "Closed Easter Sunday" (some typed, some handwritten).

Plus who closes on a non federal holiday on a Sunday these days.

Anecdotally, we're up to four in this thread, plus apparently all of the other Culver's locations.

Well it looks like the world is turning around somewhat.  Some people now are going back to old school which is okay.

However it seems like different parts of society practice different morals and each  part, wherever they are situated, seems to not hear of the other and demonstrate that their way is a majority belief.

I guess the quote that Bandit told Carrie in Smokey and The Bandit holds true.  "It depends on what part of the country you're standing is to how dumb you really are."

Obviously, we are a divided nation still and it all depends on who you ask you will get the impression of who the majority is differently.

[CoreySamson]

The Catholic Church has been seeing strong growth among the younger crowd in the 'West', including in western Europe and especially in the UK and France.

Eh. I would like to see a citation for this. The Catholic church's growth is mostly due to net immigration in the United States, and I wouldn't call its growth "strong." According to the Vatican, it's less than 1% in the Americas.

Too lazy to look up sources now, but I learned a little bit about it recently.  At least in the UK and I think also in the US, the number of people who self-identify as regular attenders of religious services has been trending upward recently.  Most notable are that (1) the strongest growth in attendance has been among young males, a demographic that is trending quite a bit higher than in the recent past, and (2) the denominations with the strongest such growth are the Catholics and the Pentecostals.

I go to a Pentecostal university, and I know at least 4 charismatic Catholics here (including a guy who just got confirmed this week), so anecdotally I would say that Catholicism is on the rise, but I couldn't cite specifics. I would also say that Pentecostalism is on the rise too, as my university's student population has risen every year for about the last 10 years. On the other hand, I am probably the only young adult at my Pentecostal church, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

[kphoger]

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd be shocked if it were that high.

Yeah that doesn't sound remotely accurate.

I've not yet found someone on the ground in the UK church who has been surprised by these figures. They might be surprised by the growth that is happening, but the figures ring true to those with their ears to the ground. It surprised society ...

To chime in here some more, still from an American perspective...

First of all, the constant narrative since my teenage years has been that religion has been on an unstoppable downhill trajectory.  This trajectory and narrative can now be measured in decades.  And I don't mean 'narrative' in a disparaging sense, because the truth of it has been apparent in both measurable and intangible ways to people within the Church just as much as to those outside it.  It's something we lament, consider to be unfortunate, but have in large part come to accept and adapt to.  Therefore, if members of secular society are surprised by the growth that is happening, believe me when I say that people inside the Church are just as surprised.  And if you are skeptical about the numbers, then believe me when I say that people inside the Church are just as skeptical (well, maybe not quite, but close).

Secondly, even if we aren't seeing the same numbers here in the US as in the UK, that doesn't mean there isn't something going on here too.  There has been a noticeable and measurable trend within Christianity, for example, of people switching from less traditional churches and denominations to more traditional ones—specifically people from non-liturgical Baptist-type churches being drawn to the history and the complexity of Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.  This suggests that, even among already-religious Christians, there is an appetite for more formality in spiritual things, not less.  It might not be so surprising, then, if there is a parallel trend happening among the non-religious population.

Thirdly, speaking of the non-religious, before this study was released I had already been surprised by some statistics coming out about religion and spirituality in the US.  In fact, it was just about four weeks ago that I was having a PM conversation with another forum member about it.  Looking back through my message history...  Among respondents to a 2023 survey by Pew Research, 83% believed that people have a spirit or a soul, 81% believe in the supernatural, 74% believe that science cannot explain everything, and 71% believe in Heaven.  So, to me at least, it was already becoming clear that people weren't entirely satisfied with materialism.

And lastly, as our society has become less and less interpersonal over the last few decades, and especially with the recent ubiquity of one's nose being buried in a smartphone, my own suspicion is that the communal aspect of organized religion serves to fill a void in some young people's lives.  Instagram and Zoom simply don't bring people together in the same way as does physically participating in something together.  In decades past, that need may have been fulfilled by bowling leagues or bridge clubs or whatever, and maybe these days church attendance is increasingly fulfilling that need in a similar way.

[Big John]

Then the clickbait headlines (US Sun): "JCPenney confirms it will close all stores for 24hrs in retail blackout – and Macy's won't be much use either." - meaning closed on Easter Sunday.

[JayhawkCO]

I just don't trust church attendance statistics from an organization called "The Bible Society". I also wouldn't trust church attendance statistics from American Atheists either. Both have clear biases.

[kphoger]

There is zero reason to give a false report of attending church more than you used to to a secular polling company about this. Especially as being a regular church goer still has a negative social stigma in the UK (though less than in 2014). Especially if you are a young male!

I just don't trust church attendance statistics from an organization called "The Bible Society". I also wouldn't trust church attendance statistics from American Atheists either. Both have clear biases.

Completely understandable.  That's where the quote above comes in.  While there are certainly psychological reasons to misrepresent one's own churchgoing-ness in a poll, I don't think you could say there's more pressure nowadays than in the past to over-represent it.

Also, while the study was commissioned by the Bible Society, it was actually conducted by YouGov.

[JayhawkCO]

There is zero reason to give a false report of attending church more than you used to to a secular polling company about this. Especially as being a regular church goer still has a negative social stigma in the UK (though less than in 2014). Especially if you are a young male!

I just don't trust church attendance statistics from an organization called "The Bible Society". I also wouldn't trust church attendance statistics from American Atheists either. Both have clear biases.

Completely understandable.  That's where the quote above comes in.  While there are certainly psychological reasons to misrepresent one's own churchgoing-ness in a poll, I don't think you could say there's more pressure nowadays than in the past to over-represent it.

Also, while the study was commissioned by the Bible Society, it was actually conducted by YouGov.

I dunno. I think there actually might be more pressure nowadays where everyone seemingly shares their entire lives on social media.