Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[Mav94]

I'm sure Illinois has been done, but Cairo and East St. Louis are pretty horrible control cities. Cairo has fewer than 2,000 people, and the ratio of St. Louis to East St. Louis traffic is probably something like 95:1.

[hobsini2]

I'm sure Illinois has been done, but Cairo and East St. Louis are pretty horrible control cities. Cairo has fewer than 2,000 people, and the ratio of St. Louis to East St. Louis traffic is probably something like 95:1.

Both are secondary controls. Cairo used to be over 15k back in 1950. East St Louis used to be over 85k back in 1950 as well. Even as recent as the 1990 census, it was just under 41K. So as secondary controls, they aren't so bad when you realize the history. Now you could say that East St Louis is being very provincial. But not so much in the case of Cairo.

[kphoger]

Now you could say that East St Louis is being very provincial.

Back when I lived in southern Illinois and drove a delivery route out of Herrin, we had maybe four or five customers in East Saint Louis and zero on the Missouri side.  (Plus several others in Belleville, Caseyville, Collinsville, Edwardsville, Madison, Roxana, and Alton.)  The only time I ever had to cross the river was to do a pick-up, and I always hated how much of a time sink that was.

[Scott5114]

The reason that East St. Louis is a dumb control city is not because it's provincial or because of the size of the city. It's dumb because it's five characters longer than "St. Louis" but manages to convey barely any extra information that "St. Louis" wouldn't.

It'd be like if I-15 south had a control city of "North Las Vegas". Yeah, it technically hits NLV limits before it does Las Vegas. Is that going to actually help anyone any more than "Las Vegas" would, though?

[kphoger]

The reason that East St. Louis is a dumb control city is not because it's provincial or because of the size of the city. It's dumb because it's five characters longer than "St. Louis" but manages to convey barely any extra information that "St. Louis" wouldn't.

It'd be like if I-15 south had a control city of "North Las Vegas". Yeah, it technically hits NLV limits before it does Las Vegas. Is that going to actually help anyone any more than "Las Vegas" would, though?

On which highways does East St Louis appear as a control point for the junction?

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this question:  does it appear at the junction for any highway that actually crosses the state line in to Saint Louis?

[GaryA]

Not on an interstate, but on a state-signed freeway junction with an interstate.

CA 134, approaching its junction with I-210 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ktZ5MxQkeqA9e5sg7).

CA 134 ends here, and the mainline is signed for "East I-210 Pasadena".

The issue?  Not only are you already well within the city limits of Pasadena, but the exit for the center of Pasadena is the very next exit (Fair Oaks Ave), about a half-mile ahead.

Other references to I-210 East at this junction are signed for San Bernardino. I hope when this sign is replaced (which it badly needs) SB will be used, but Caltrans has a history of replacing old button-copy signs with nearly identical reflective replacements.

[hbelkins]

The reason that East St. Louis is a dumb control city is not because it's provincial or because of the size of the city. It's dumb because it's five characters longer than "St. Louis" but manages to convey barely any extra information that "St. Louis" wouldn't.

It'd be like if I-15 south had a control city of "North Las Vegas". Yeah, it technically hits NLV limits before it does Las Vegas. Is that going to actually help anyone any more than "Las Vegas" would, though?

On which highways does East St Louis appear as a control point for the junction?

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this question:  does it appear at the junction for any highway that actually crosses the state line in to Saint Louis?

I don't have much experience with I-70 or I-55 in Illinois, but from my memory, ESL appears only on surface routes that intersect I-64 west of Mt. Vernon. At I-57, "East" is omitted and the control city is St. Louis. Similarly, Mt. Vernon appears on signage at intersecting routes between Mt. Vernon and the state line. I can't remember if the signs for eastbound I-64 bear Evansville or Louisville.

[kphoger]

I don't have much experience with I-70 or I-55 in Illinois, but from my memory, ESL appears only on surface routes that intersect I-64 west of Mt. Vernon.

Ah, thank you.  Yes, it's the surface roads that bear 'East St Louis' on them, not the Interstates themselves.  So this is a debate about secondary control cities.

Yes, considering Illinois uses such out-of-state control cities as Paducah (I-24) and Evansville (I-64) and Terre Haute (I-70) instead of Metropolis/Brookport and Grayville and Marshall in similar locations, East Saint Louis does seem to be a strange choice.

[freebrickproductions]

I don't have much experience with I-70 or I-55 in Illinois, but from my memory, ESL appears only on surface routes that intersect I-64 west of Mt. Vernon.

Ah, thank you.  Yes, it's the surface roads that bear 'East St Louis' on them, not the Interstates themselves.  So this is a debate about secondary control cities.

Yes, considering Illinois uses such out-of-state control cities as Paducah (I-24) and Evansville (I-64) and Terre Haute (I-70) instead of Metropolis/Brookport and Grayville and Marshall in similar locations, East Saint Louis does seem to be a strange choice.

Could it be a left-over from when the Interstates were first being built, especially if the rural parts of the highways through there were built before the bridges over the Mississippi were? I know the mileage signs in southern Tennessee on I-65 southbound still primarily list Birmingham as the (only) city on them, and I think some of the signage for the surface roads at interchanges with I-65 on the south side of Nashville still use Birmingham has the control for I-65 southbound.

[Gnutella]

Having heard of Cleveland doesn't do anything to help me know if I'm taking the right highway or not—unless I already know what highway goes to Cleveland.

And using Cleveland as a control city from the George Washington Bridge, or even from Stroudsburg, doesn't do anything to help me know if I'm taking the right highway or not if my destination is in Pennsylvania, which is a much more likely destination than Cleveland if I'm crossing the George Washington Bridge. AADT on I-80 in Pennsylvania drops from 38,000 east of I-380 to 16,000 west of PA 115.

[US20IL64]

"East St. Louis" on I-55 (south) entrance signs is remnant of the 1956 Interstate plan, when ESTL was larger. Used to go to STL on family trips and would 'countdown' the IL cities. Joliet, Bloomington, Lincon, Springfield and ESTL. But it is outdated, so just take the 'East' off the signs. 

I-57 famously has Memphis on Chicago area signs but used to say Kankakee or Champaign. I-80 west used to have Moline, and the highway in southwest suburbs was first called "Moline Expressway".

[ilpt4u]

There is an overhead pull-thru BGS on WB 64 near Scott AFB/Exit 19 that lists "East St Louis" as the 64/50 WB Control

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QCAX2HRtUE8NgQSt7

EB 64 at Exit 19 uses Mt Vernon, so IDOT went with Secondary Controls on the pull-thrus here

As mentioned earlier, East St Louis does nothing better than just using St Louis between Mt Vernon and the Mississippi River. E STL is a bad Control choice. If IDOT really wants a Secondary between Mt Vernon and the Metro East it should be Fairview Heights or Belleville, or take a cue from D1 and simply sign "Metro East" as the Control a la "(directional) Suburbs" in Chicagoland

Once in the Metro East, if IDOT still really wants a Secondary instead of just St Louis, then take a NY/NJ cue and sign "Poplar Street Bridge"

[hobsini2]

Having heard of Cleveland doesn't do anything to help me know if I'm taking the right highway or not—unless I already know what highway goes to Cleveland.

And using Cleveland as a control city from the George Washington Bridge, or even from Stroudsburg, doesn't do anything to help me know if I'm taking the right highway or not if my destination is in Pennsylvania, which is a much more likely destination than Cleveland if I'm crossing the George Washington Bridge. AADT on I-80 in Pennsylvania drops from 38,000 east of I-380 to 16,000 west of PA 115.

Hence why I like using secondaries with a primary on the interstate itself at major interchanges. Use Scranton and State College as secondaries for I-80.

[thenetwork]

Though NOT a bona-fide interstate, but could easily become one, WB US-24 in Napoleon, Ohio has en exit for US-6/Chicago.

I don't of anybody in the last several decades who would follow US-6 *exclusively* through all of Indiana and into extreme eastern Illinois to Chicago's southern suburbs...even if to shunpike.

A more logical control city would be for Shipshewana, IN, which is a major tourist area in the middle of Indiana Amish country along US-6.

[tdindy88]

Though NOT a bona-fide interstate, but could easily become one, WB US-24 in Napoleon, Ohio has en exit for US-6/Chicago.

I don't of anybody in the last several decades who would follow US-6 *exclusively* through all of Indiana and into extreme eastern Illinois to Chicago's southern suburbs...even if to shunpike.

A more logical control city would be for Shipshewana, IN, which is a major tourist area in the middle of Indiana Amish country along US-6.

Shipshewana is nowhere near US 6. Unless you were meaning Nappanee. In any case I'm surprised Kendalville is even mentioned at all, let alone Chicago. I would probably rather it just list some Ohio town and then Kendallville if nothing else.

[NWI_Irish96]

Though NOT a bona-fide interstate, but could easily become one, WB US-24 in Napoleon, Ohio has en exit for US-6/Chicago.

I don't of anybody in the last several decades who would follow US-6 *exclusively* through all of Indiana and into extreme eastern Illinois to Chicago's southern suburbs...even if to shunpike.

A more logical control city would be for Shipshewana, IN, which is a major tourist area in the middle of Indiana Amish country along US-6.

Shipshewana is nowhere near US 6. Unless you were meaning Nappanee. In any case I'm surprised Kendalville is even mentioned at all, let alone Chicago. I would probably rather it just list some Ohio town and then Kendallville if nothing else.

US 6 doesn't even enter Chicago. Kendallville is the largest town on US 6 before you get into Chicagoland.

If you were heading west from Toledo, US 20 would be a much faster route to Shipshewana than US 6.

[Flint1979]

At that point I think I'd take US-24 to Fort Wayne and then US-30 the rest of the way across Indiana rather than take US-6.

[hobsini2]

Though NOT a bona-fide interstate, but could easily become one, WB US-24 in Napoleon, Ohio has en exit for US-6/Chicago.

I don't of anybody in the last several decades who would follow US-6 *exclusively* through all of Indiana and into extreme eastern Illinois to Chicago's southern suburbs...even if to shunpike.

A more logical control city would be for Shipshewana, IN, which is a major tourist area in the middle of Indiana Amish country along US-6.

Shipshewana is nowhere near US 6. Unless you were meaning Nappanee. In any case I'm surprised Kendalville is even mentioned at all, let alone Chicago. I would probably rather it just list some Ohio town and then Kendallville if nothing else.

US 6 doesn't even enter Chicago. Kendallville is the largest town on US 6 before you get into Chicagoland.

If you were heading west from Toledo, US 20 would be a much faster route to Shipshewana than US 6.

Looking at the map, I would think Bryan and Kendallville would be good enough to use for US 6 at the junction. And according to Google maps, US 6 does reach the city limits for Kendallville.

[SkyPesos]

Though NOT a bona-fide interstate, but could easily become one, WB US-24 in Napoleon, Ohio has en exit for US-6/Chicago.

I don't of anybody in the last several decades who would follow US-6 *exclusively* through all of Indiana and into extreme eastern Illinois to Chicago's southern suburbs...even if to shunpike.

A more logical control city would be for Shipshewana, IN, which is a major tourist area in the middle of Indiana Amish country along US-6.

Reminds me, US 24's control cities in that section aren't that great. The exit for WB 24 at I-475 signs it for Napoleon when for a expressway that's part of a handful of long-distance routes, Fort Wayne would be better.

Same on the other end; Sign EB US 24 for Toledo at I-469.

[bing101]

Here is one I-5 San Diego it's simply says south once one drives south of Downtown on I-5. It does not include Tijuana as a control city.

[wriddle082]

I don't have much experience with I-70 or I-55 in Illinois, but from my memory, ESL appears only on surface routes that intersect I-64 west of Mt. Vernon.

Ah, thank you.  Yes, it's the surface roads that bear 'East St Louis' on them, not the Interstates themselves.  So this is a debate about secondary control cities.

Yes, considering Illinois uses such out-of-state control cities as Paducah (I-24) and Evansville (I-64) and Terre Haute (I-70) instead of Metropolis/Brookport and Grayville and Marshall in similar locations, East Saint Louis does seem to be a strange choice.

Could it be a left-over from when the Interstates were first being built, especially if the rural parts of the highways through there were built before the bridges over the Mississippi were? I know the mileage signs in southern Tennessee on I-65 southbound still primarily list Birmingham as the (only) city on them, and I think some of the signage for the surface roads at interchanges with I-65 on the south side of Nashville still use Birmingham has the control for I-65 southbound.

I'm pretty sure all TN signage at interchanges has been updated to Huntsville, but you'll still see Birmingham on most mainline I-65 mileage signs, which always seem to be lacking both in quantity and quality (wish they listed next exit in addition to secondary control and primary control).

TN changed the controls in the early 90's around the time that I-565 was fully completed to I-65, and the City of Huntsville annexed a little bit of I-65 near the I-565 interchange.

[freebrickproductions]

I don't have much experience with I-70 or I-55 in Illinois, but from my memory, ESL appears only on surface routes that intersect I-64 west of Mt. Vernon.

Ah, thank you.  Yes, it's the surface roads that bear 'East St Louis' on them, not the Interstates themselves.  So this is a debate about secondary control cities.

Yes, considering Illinois uses such out-of-state control cities as Paducah (I-24) and Evansville (I-64) and Terre Haute (I-70) instead of Metropolis/Brookport and Grayville and Marshall in similar locations, East Saint Louis does seem to be a strange choice.

Could it be a left-over from when the Interstates were first being built, especially if the rural parts of the highways through there were built before the bridges over the Mississippi were? I know the mileage signs in southern Tennessee on I-65 southbound still primarily list Birmingham as the (only) city on them, and I think some of the signage for the surface roads at interchanges with I-65 on the south side of Nashville still use Birmingham has the control for I-65 southbound.

I'm pretty sure all TN signage at interchanges has been updated to Huntsville, but you'll still see Birmingham on most mainline I-65 mileage signs, which always seem to be lacking both in quantity and quality (wish they listed next exit in addition to secondary control and primary control).

TN changed the controls in the early 90's around the time that I-565 was fully completed to I-65, and the City of Huntsville annexed a little bit of I-65 near the I-565 interchange.

Looks like they finally got rid of the last examples on the side roads. I remember this one in Franklin still said Birmingham as late as last year, but it appears it was finally replaced with one that says Huntsville:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9148563,-86.8271574,3a,15y,146.18h,88.84t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sT7v0pJmetcw21L0cvCQDOg!2e0!5s20230301T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.1576812952632025%26panoid%3DT7v0pJmetcw21L0cvCQDOg%26yaw%3D146.17747581390302!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

This one also still said Birmingham until sometime within the past few years:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9978371,-86.7982197,3a,15y,312.19h,90.58t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sTMS_JbqjMeb20qrjrQVBYA!2e0!5s20230401T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-0.5835775319605432%26panoid%3DTMS_JbqjMeb20qrjrQVBYA%26yaw%3D312.1862238236027!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[Scott5114]

Here is one I-5 San Diego it's simply says south once one drives south of Downtown on I-5. It does not include Tijuana as a control city.

It looks like the current signage at that location now includes Chula Vista as a control city.