I-40 in North Carolina

[Strider]

I think rebuilding on majority viaducts, similar to I-70 through the Rockies or the H3, might be better for long term resilience.

The Rockies are different in compared to the Appalachians. Interstate H-3 was one of the most expensive builds. That rerouting discussions should be moved to fictional highways as there has been no actual discussions related to that.

Besides, viaducts and tunnels isn't always the solution. A few years ago, I-70 viaduct in Glenwood Canyon was flooded due to excessive rain. That area is also prone to rock slides and flooding. Last year, I-H3 also flooded. How many discussions were there about rerouting these roads? Nothing.

Wyoming wanted to reroute I-80 between Rawlins and Laramie due to excessive wrecks along the current I-80 routing during Winter/Blizzard season (if I am correct, they close that section of I-80 during excessive winter weather), but didn't proceed with it because of it costs between $6 billion and $12 billion... and there's no money.

So sometimes keeping current routes is the best bet even if that means fixing it all over again.

[ElishaGOtis]

Would CA-1 near Big Sur be a good comparison to the situation on I-40, or. Is it like comparing apples to oranges given the extreme logistical challenges of reconstruction on CA-1?

[Strider]

Yeah, CA-1's situation in the Big Sur region is similar (but they get hit by rockslides, waves from the ocean very often). They're doing an emergency repair on the exact location part of the road that was damaged. They don't plan on moving CA-1 to another location.

[bwana39]

Yeah, CA-1's situation in the Big Sur region is similar (but they get hit by rockslides, waves from the ocean very often). They're doing an emergency repair on the exact location part of the road that was damaged. They don't plan on moving CA-1 to another location.

Yeah, but... The PCH is a tourist destination. I-40 is a freight highway.

[bwana39]

I think rebuilding on majority viaducts, similar to I-70 through the Rockies or the H3, might be better for long term resilience.

So sometimes keeping current routes is the best bet even if that means fixing it all over again.

This is not going to be a fix. It is going to be a start from scratch re-engineer and start over. The right answer MIGHT be to rebuild it in place.

They got one lane each way open temporarily then a repeat came up.  They as I understand are probably 18 months from having a plan to "fix" I-40 much less actually do the EXPENSIVE work it will take regardless of the method (and location) chosen.  (And I concede, that they appear to be invested in the current track through these canyons.)

[thenetwork]

The Rockies are different in compared to the Appalachians. Besides, viaducts and tunnels isn't always the solution. A few years ago, I-70 viaduct in Glenwood Canyon was flooded due to excessive rain. That area is also prone to rock slides and flooding. Last year, I-H3 also flooded. How many discussions were there about rerouting these roads? Nothing.

Actually there is increased talk about providing at least an all-weather alternate route for passenger vehicles via Cottonwood Pass. 

Currently, Cottonwood can only be used by smaller vehicles in the summer months. Outside of that, a Glenwood Canyon closure  results in a guaranteed 3+ hour detour via Craig and Steamboat Springs (on a GOOD day). 

[Beltway]

I-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.

That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.

I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.

The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago.  It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.

[ElishaGOtis]

I-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.

That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.

I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.

The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago.  It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.

Completely agree, especially if it gets busy enough to warrant 6 lanes of capacity, which NO WAY can fit in the current ROW...

[Beltway]

I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.
The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago.  It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.

Completely agree, especially if it gets busy enough to warrant 6 lanes of capacity, which NO WAY can fit in the current ROW...

The Average Daily Traffic (ADT) on I-40 at the North Carolina–Tennessee border, particularly through the Pigeon River Gorge, typically ranges between 25,000 and 30,000 vehicles per day, depending on the exact location and year. Of that total, large trucks make up approximately 20% to 30% of the traffic volume.

Approaching 6-lane warrants.

The potential there is to shave a lot of miles off the route. One I can see would be a 7 mile long relocation that would replace 11 miles of highway.

A longer one I can see would be a 12 mile long relocation that would replace 18 miles of highway.

[Strider]

I-40 needed to have a segment between Knoxville TN and Asheville NC. There was no easy way to build that. Now that the segment has been in service for over 50 years, we need to think about what is needed for the next 50 years.
The Pigeon River alignment is not a good place for a highway, as we have seen.
I would suggest a 10- to 20-mile relocation out of that valley and onto higher ground on a straighter alignment. Like this one, and it would likely require two or three tunnels about a mile long each.

That is not going to happen for many reasons. Let it go.

I am not suggesting that it will happen in the near future -- just that it needs to have a location/EIS study for determining what to do in 2030 or 2035 and beyond.

The existing highway has had a series of major problems including another a week ago.  It is not suitable for a modern high-volume rural Interstate highway corridor.

Near the future or not, it's not going to happen. You can keep this conversation going if you want to. Until I hear anything from NCDOT about that, I'm done with this conversation.

[NE2]

(a) fictional.
(b) with the construction of I-74, there's now an all-freeway alternate that's only 11 miles longer. 6-laning 150 miles of I-81 would be so much more feasible and, with a higher speed limit, would take a bunch of long distance traffic off I-40. Google Maps even estimates the longer route being 7 minutes faster.
(c) suck it.

[Beltway]

(a) fictional.
(b) with the construction of I-74, there's now an all-freeway alternate that's only 11 miles longer. 6-laning 150 miles of I-81 would be so much more feasible and, with a higher speed limit, would take a bunch of long distance traffic off I-40. Google Maps even estimates the longer route being 7 minutes faster.
(c) suck it.

a) The critical problems of the current route are a reality and not fiction -- including a year or more of 2-lane 2-way traffic -- something that can repeat at any time -- this is a historical problem.

b) For some routings. Connecting Knoxville, Asheville, Charlotte and Spartanburg, for example are going to use I-40.

I-81 is busy with its own traffic needs and needs 6 lanes today -- these routes form a network that support all the regional needs -- Google is your friend -- I-40 has been part of the national network from the very beginning -- this is not an either-or situation.

c) If you are a current user of I-40 between Knoxville and Asheville, you are experiencing a lot of difficulty. It is not the 1960s anymore.

[ElishaGOtis]

There seems to be some political support for not rebuilding the highway where it currently is... I wouldn't completely dismiss this prospect. Look at one of the mountain sections of the A1 in Italy.

To clarify what I meant... https://maps.app.goo.gl/umnhEDbAxfA47J2s7?g_st=ic is this a valid project comparison or am I comparing apples to oranges here? There are several multi-mile tunnels along this corridor dealing with similar geological conditions (I think...). The old A1 corridor vs the new A1-Var corridor can be seen somewhat easily side-by-side. Granted, these are all tolled being in Italy but still...