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No more 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA?

Started by mgk920, July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PM

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mgk920

US SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

Mike


kphoger

Well, let's start with the MUTCD, obviously:

Quote from: MUTCD, 11th EditionPart 3 — Markings

Chapter 3H — Colored Pavement

§ 3H.03 — Aesthetic Surface Treatments

Support

01 — Aesthetic surface treatments are sometimes used between the transverse lines within a crosswalk, in islands, in medians, in shoulders, within sidewalk extensions designated by pavement markings, or in other areas outside of the traveled way.

07 — Colors used for aesthetic surface treatments shall be outside the chromaticity coordinates that define the ranges of acceptable colors for traffic control devices.

Chromaticity coordinates:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-23/chapter-I/subchapter-G/part-655#Appendix-to-Subpart-F-of-Part-655

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Rothman

#2
My thought is that I wish our government was focused on much more important matters than being worried about communities celebrating Pride.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

On the one hand, uniformity in crosswalk design is desirable for safety's sake, and rainbows are certainly a deviation from standard crosswalk markings.

But on the other hand, their being more noticeable would just go to make drivers more likely to notice them and yield to pedestrians, wouldn't it?  In the places I've been where there are rainbow crosswalks, they certainly stood out, and I didn't see drivers failing to yield at them.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

SectorZ

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/italian-street-lines-painted-newton-nonantum/

Adams St in Nonantum, a section of Newton MA, also had to get rid of their green/white/red center line after 90 years, so something tells me this crackdown is consistent across other non-standard road markings. As usual that community overchayed hard over it.

I wonder if the red/white/blue center line on RI 114 in Bristol will bite the dust, too?

kphoger

So I guess, if we're going to follow the MUTCD, then these cities can use whatever colors they like between the crosswalk lines—as long as it isn't red, orange, yellow, green, light blue, blue, purple, brown, or white.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

mgk920

My read is that they can do whatever they want  - but only outside of the normally driven parts of roads.

Mike

kalvado

#7
Quote from: Rothman on July 03, 2025, 01:53:09 PMMy thought is that I wish our government was focused on much more important matters than being worried about communities celebrating Pride.
Yeah, like mileage based exit numbers!

LilianaUwU

Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMThoughts?

With regards to the current administration, mostly intrusive ones.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

hbelkins

The details are fuzzy, but I seem to remember a brouhaha about a rainbow painted crosswalk in Lexington that resulted in the mayor getting a cease-and-desist letter from FHWA several years ago. So this is certainly not anything new to Secretary Duffy or the Trump administration.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Rothman

Quote from: hbelkins on July 04, 2025, 02:29:08 PMThe details are fuzzy, but I seem to remember a brouhaha about a rainbow painted crosswalk in Lexington that resulted in the mayor getting a cease-and-desist letter from FHWA several years ago. So this is certainly not anything new to Secretary Duffy or the Trump administration.

That was in 2017 during the first Trump Administration...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheCatalyst31

Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

Mike

The short version of my thoughts are that rainbow crosswalks are fine and Sean Duffy is incompetent. The long version is probably unprintable, at least on this forum.

ElishaGOtis

I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted from another source.

kalvado


Scott5114

#14
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

If they want consistency, maybe they shouldn't have 5 different options for crosswalks in the first place.

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 04, 2025, 07:05:56 PMIf they want consistency, maybe they shouldn't have 5 different options for crosswalks in the first place.

You know, honestly, that is a great point. Why are there 5 different options for crosswalks, anyway?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

Rothman

Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down.  FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects.  The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kalvado

Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:57:45 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down.  FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects.  The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?

LilianaUwU

Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 09:02:27 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:57:45 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:51:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 04, 2025, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2025, 01:36:10 PMUS SecTrans (Sean Duffy) has ordered that all 'rainbow' crosswalks in the USA be removed as being a distraction to drivers.  Thoughts?

I don't think he's competent to serve as Secretary of Transportation. He has no qualifications for the office aside from appearing on two television shows that have the word "road" in the title—which I suspect is the reason he was appointed to the office, as such a naive misunderstanding would be par for the course for the person who made the appointment.

Functionally, this memo can be ignored—the only way USDOT has to enforce compliance is by withholding federal funding. Most streets that are pedestrian-focused enough to have crosswalks are maintained by local agencies that get no federal funding anyway.

In light of that, I strongly encourage Secretary Duffy to take a long walk off a short pier, then to go jump in a lake (I understand there is a rather large one in Wisconsin's 7th district, which he represented in Congress), and when he's done with that to go piss up a rope, and I would say so to Secretary Duffy were he to ask my opinion on the matter, either directly or on a Congressionally-required public comment docket.
You described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Equating a TV show guy to a previous elected official who had responsibility for their jurisdiction's transportation program is certainly a stretch.
My neighbor is working on his driveway right now. Would that make him qualify to lead DOT from your perspective?
My biggest memory of Pete B. Is how FAA - which is part of DOT - was going through complete meltdown while big boss was on paternity leave.

At least the entire USDOT wasn't melting down.  FHWA is letting DOTs know that review periods have now doubled, delaying projects.  The scale of damage done since January is astronomical compared to anything prior.
Are we still attacking personalities or talking something else?
I will stop attacking those personalities when they stop attacking my peers' human rights.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMYou described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhataboutismWhataboutism or whataboutery (as in "but what about X?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation.

From a logical and argumentative point of view, whataboutism is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.

The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring).
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 04, 2025, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 04, 2025, 08:09:46 PMYou described someone as qualified, if not more qualified than the previous guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
I am just saying that the bar is already set low enough. And that is before we start talking about engineering.. 



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.