Worst control city on an interstate in your state

[mgk920]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

[DTComposer]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

And of course, "Other Desert Cities" on I-10.
What really bothers me about that is not just that vagueness, but that it's co-signed with Indio - so it ignores that one of those "other" cities is Palm Springs - an internationally-known destination.

It wasn't a population thing, since Palm Springs was larger than Indio when those signs were put up (and was larger until the mid-'90s). It wasn't a direct connection thing, since Palm Springs is just a few miles down CA-111 or Indian Canyon Road from I-10, and Caltrans uses non-direct destinations all the time (San Francisco on I-5, for example). Signing I-10 as Palm Springs/Indio just makes sense to me.

[hobsini2]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

Streetview in 2019:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.520737,-87.9958213,3a,15y,126.87h,91.39t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sqyTWFWp9tc9M8wV93xNPsQ!2e0!5s20190901T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.3863218745748895%26panoid%3DqyTWFWp9tc9M8wV93xNPsQ%26yaw%3D126.87071376307884!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

When IDOT reconstructed the 30 interchange in 2021, the sign changed to Iowa and Indiana.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5206797,-87.9957522,3a,75y,124.82h,96.3t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sjvocErq50ElVP5gD_7qehQ!2e0!5s20221101T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.298654863004444%26panoid%3DjvocErq50ElVP5gD_7qehQ%26yaw%3D124.82390835123319!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

You can still find a few Gary, Indiana relics in Joliet (Briggs St, Richards St, 52/53 Chicago St and Center St) but not for long.

[kphoger]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

It must just be a false memory, then, because I'm certain my memory is of the 80/55 interchange.  I specifically remember it because, just west of the interchange, were the first hitchhikers I ever remember seeing as a kid—a family with suitcases hitching from the shoulder.  I grew up in New Lenox through third grade, so we drove through that interchange whenever we went south or west.

I remember wondering as a young child where there was an island anywhere nearby in Illinois, but I suppose maybe I'm conflating two different memories:  one of I-80 at I-55, the other from somewhere else.

[thenetwork]

I-80 west used to have Moline

I have an early childhood memory of that, from the 80/55 interchange, in the mid- to late-1980s.  But for some reason I was thinking the signs said Rock Island instead.

The I-80/55 Interchange used to say Des Moines and Toledo in the 1980s. Moline/Rock Island along with Gary, Indiana was only used at smaller interchanges starting at US 30 Maple St.

It must just be a false memory, then, because I'm certain my memory is of the 80/55 interchange.  I specifically remember it because, just west of the interchange, were the first hitchhikers I ever remember seeing as a kid—a family with suitcases hitching from the shoulder.  I grew up in New Lenox through third grade, so we drove through that interchange whenever we went south or west.

I remember wondering as a young child where there was an island anywhere nearby in Illinois, but I suppose maybe I'm conflating two different memories:  one of I-80 at I-55, the other from somewhere else.

Back when Toledo and Moline were listed on the overheads at the 80/55 interchange, you could still make out the "shadows" of the US-66 shields that were scraped off after 66 was decommissioned.

[mrsman]

Not my state, but California's "Beach Cities" on CA-91 is groan-inducing. Am I supposed to know which of the ten trillion cities in Orange County have beaches and which don't?

IIRC, the mileage sign (which I think is gone) just past CA-71 listed Beach Cities at 43 miles - meaning the Beach Cities wasn't even referring to Orange County, but to Manhattan Beach/Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach at the historical end of CA-91 (at CA-1).

All the recent re-signing projects have doubled down on Beach Cities - not sure why Anaheim isn't an acceptable control for CA-91 westbound.

That's like 'Shore Points' on EB I-195 in New Jersey.

Mike

And of course, "Other Desert Cities" on I-10.
What really bothers me about that is not just that vagueness, but that it's co-signed with Indio - so it ignores that one of those "other" cities is Palm Springs - an internationally-known destination.

It wasn't a population thing, since Palm Springs was larger than Indio when those signs were put up (and was larger until the mid-'90s). It wasn't a direct connection thing, since Palm Springs is just a few miles down CA-111 or Indian Canyon Road from I-10, and Caltrans uses non-direct destinations all the time (San Francisco on I-5, for example). Signing I-10 as Palm Springs/Indio just makes sense to me.

I agree with Anaheim as a better control for CA-91 than Beach Cities.  I always assumed Beach Cities referred to the OC beaches since they are closer to Inland Empire, more of a connection between OC and IE than between southern LA county and IE **, and it always seemed like a good corollary to 55 north that had  Riverside as its control (until more recently where they have inexplicably added Anaheim/Riverside, even at the junction of I-5).*  55 north heads to Riverside if you continue on the trajectory of the roadway and make the turn onto 91, and in reverse  55 south is a left exit off the 91 and the first major interchange west of the Santa Ana Canyon that existed, prior to the toll road construction.  Given that the controls were 55 south to Newport Beach and 91 west to Los Angeles, it would seem that Newport Beach (and some of the other nearby OC beaches) were contemplated by Beach Cities.  But obviously, if you found a mileage sign that disputes that, great.

Indio, while lesser known than Palm Springs, was historically the main highway junction in the area as US 60-70-99 split into 99 heading to El Centro and 60-70 heading to Arizona.  We still have the CA-86 freeway junction there today.  Given that "Other Desert Cities" was usually below Indio, and CA practice usually put the closer city first on the BGS, I assume that other desert cities meant the small towns further east from Indio (or further south along CA-86).  Blythe is very small.  IMO, no good reason that Phoenix should not be signed in place of "Other Desert Cities".  But Caltrans seems to just copy the old signage when replacing, even when there are actual issues with the messaging on the signs.

* Yes to Anaheim as a control for 91 west in Riverside County.  No to Anaheim as a control for 55 north, when following it will take you away from Disneyland, Downtown Anaheim, and Anaheim Stadium.  "Anaheim Hills", "East Anaheim" or "Yorba Linda" would be better for 55.  I understand Caltrans wants to distinguish the controls on 55 from those on 241, and if you are in southern OC, it makes no sense to take 55 to Riverside instead of 241, even with the toll, but the controls should make sense.  Like most Caltrans practice, the sign should lead towards the center of Anaheim if they use Anaheim as a control.

** Connections between OC and IE.  First, IE is closer to OC than to LA's South Bay.  Second a lot more IE people who commute via 91 are going to OC area, not LA county.  Even for those who work in the South Bay or LAX areas, I assume that more would commute using 60-605-105 than 91 as 91 has historically been a much busier corridor, whereas traffic on 60 is better since the traffic load can be shared with 10 and 210.  Third, during the period from 1951 all the way to the mid-1980s, all of Greater Los Angeles was in two area codes: 213 and 714.  714 incorporated some of the very eastern parts of LA county like Pomona, but it was mostly OC, SB, and Riverside Counties, while most of LA county (including the San Gabriel Valley) was 213.  Most of OC and most of IE shared an area code (714) all the way to 1992 when 909 was created.  Fourth, given the geography and everything else, a lot of sports allegiances meant that IE, especially the Riverside County portion, favored Angels, Ducks, and Rams (when they played in Anaheim) over Dodgers, Kings, and Raiders (when they played at the Coliseum).  Just a long way of saying that if a person in western Riverside county were headed to "the beach" they were far more likely heading to Huntington/Newport/Laguna over Redondo/Hermosa/Manhattan.

[Scott5114]

Geez, they put Beach Cities on a freakin' mileage sign? Wonder if that was ever the case with other Desert Cities...

[Konza]

Every time I drive I-10 past the east end of I-8 near Casa Grande, I question why San Diego is the control city on the exit sign.  Yes, I-8 goes there, and ends there.  But it's 353 miles to the west end of I-8, and a little past halfway, I-8 goes through Yuma which I believe is the most populous city in Arizona outside of Tucson and the Phoenix metropolitan area.  In the winter, the influx of snowbirds certainly earns it that distinction. 

No, Yuma does not have the national stature that San Diego does, but I think the sign would be more effective if it said "Yuma- San Diego" or something to that effect.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Geez, they put Beach Cities on a freakin' mileage sign? Wonder if that was ever the case with other Desert Cities...

Scott, I don't think it's other Desert Cities, its

    other
Desert Cities

But I have seen Beach Cities, and I can agree that its almost as funny, except they need Long Beach on there, and they need to have Other as well.

At least we've got good ol' Ocean Beaches here in Oregon, but unfortunately that one's dying out.

[Scott5114]

Geez, they put Beach Cities on a freakin' mileage sign? Wonder if that was ever the case with other Desert Cities...

Scott, I don't think it's other Desert Cities, its

    other
Desert Cities

It's worse.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Geez, they put Beach Cities on a freakin' mileage sign? Wonder if that was ever the case with other Desert Cities...

Scott, I don't think it's other Desert Cities, its

    other
Desert Cities

It's worse.

Oh

I guess my memory was tricking me

[gonealookin]

A bit of a sidetrack for this thread...but we know, do we not, that the internal signage at Palm Springs International Airport takes at least some inspiration from Caltrans' work on Interstate 10:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhcmVET6s6hsgvEH6

[roadman65]

Here is one I-5 San Diego it's simply says south once one drives south of Downtown on I-5. It does not include Tijuana as a control city.

It looks like the current signage at that location now includes Chula Vista as a control city.

Often wondered why Caltrans didn't sign any control cities South of Downtown San Diego. I drove it in 1988, and thought that either Mexico or even Tijuana should have been used back then.

Also does I-805 still not have a control city coming from the San Yisidro Border crossing?  I figured Los Angeles would be a great option to inform our Mexican visitors of where the route goes.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Here is one I-5 San Diego it's simply says south once one drives south of Downtown on I-5. It does not include Tijuana as a control city.

It looks like the current signage at that location now includes Chula Vista as a control city.

Often wondered why Caltrans didn't sign any control cities South of Downtown San Diego. I drove it in 1988, and thought that either Mexico or even Tijuana should have been used back then.

Also does I-805 still not have a control city coming from the San Yisidro Border crossing?  I figured Los Angeles would be a great option to inform our Mexican visitors of where the route goes.

I-5 NORTH      I-805 NORTH

San Diego      Los Angeles         

LEFT LANES     RIGHT LANES

This would be such a great way to welcome you to the US, two of the largest cities on double signs. But because CalTrans is silly, we can't have nice things. Even then, would the 5 be faster than the 805 even if there was traffic on it?

[minneha]

It's worse.

That might honestly be the ugliest BGS I've ever seen. The odd lowercase "o" in other. The wide spacing between other and Desert. How close Indio is to the top of the sign. What a hot mess.

On GSV, it shows an updated sign in use with a capital "O" in Other and normal spacing between Other and Desert. But it still has a centering issue, this time with Cities being too close to the bottom of the sign.

[kphoger]

That might honestly be the ugliest BGS I've ever seen.

You seriously need to do some driving in Mexico, then...

[Scott5114]

That might honestly be the ugliest BGS I've ever seen.

Welcome to the Caltrans Cinematic Universe! None of the rules (or general good taste) you thought applied to signs matter anymore.

[PNWRoadgeek]

That might honestly be the ugliest BGS I've ever seen.

Welcome to the Caltrans Cinematic Universe! None of the rules (or general good taste) you thought applied to signs matter anymore.

*cough* the now gone sign with the slapped on CA 60 shield *cough*

Seriously, I feel like California never replaces its signs, while Oregon certainly has bad signage, we don't just straight up leave button copy to decay like CalTrans does. Though I feel like LA is worse than every other part of California with the signs themselves.

Don't even get me started on the whole I-15/CA 15 thing as well...

[Scott5114]

The button copy is usually fine (if you can forgive the three layers of greenout). It's the reflective stuff that tends to defy all common sense.

[Gnutella]

That might honestly be the ugliest BGS I've ever seen.

Welcome to the Caltrans Cinematic Universe! None of the rules (or general good taste) you thought applied to signs matter anymore.

Evety Caltrans sign is a damn rectangle, and they're all the same height.

[kphoger]

Evety Caltrans sign is a damn rectangle, and they're all the same height.

You're right, there should be more heptagonal signs.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Worst?  Huntsville, for I-65 south in Nashville.

Why?

Because I-65 does not travel through Huntsville city proper.

It travels through the metropolitan area (Decatur and Athens), but not the city proper.  And I-565 is far more "biased" towards Birmingham than Nashville!

Control city used to be Birmingham, but they changed it several years back.

The city proper of Huntsville and Mobile are both larger than the city proper of Birmingham, although the metropolitan area of Birmingham is still the largest in the state at 1.1 million, plus I-65 does traverse the city proper of Birmingham.

Therefore, the control city should be Birmingham in my opinion.

Second place:  On I-155, the control city should be Hayti.  I-155 does not end in St. Louis...at all.  You have to get on I-55 to go there.

Third place:  In Memphis, US 78 should be Tupelo.  US 78 is not access-fully controlled freeway for another seven miles, and not Interstate 22 for even longer than that.  So a shorter distance city than Birmingham would make more sense there.

Trying to think of others.

[hbelkins]

Second place:  On I-155, the control city should be Hayti.  I-155 does not end in St. Louis...at all.  You have to get on I-55 to go there.

Just wait until you learn about I-24 westbound in Kentucky past Paducah.

Or I-57 in Illinois.

[GaryV]

I-696 in metro Detroit doesn't go anywhere near either of its control cities (Lansing/Port Huron).

Same for I-275 (Flint/Toledo) - and that has the added benefit that northbound you have to take 2 other routes to get to Flint.

[kphoger]

Because I-65 does not travel through Huntsville city proper.

Yes, it does.

I-65 travels through Huntsville city proper for two miles in zoning grid 11-02 and 10-02 (from near the Verizon cell tower south of Buc-ee's to Martin Line Road), then for another 0.2 miles in zoning grid 09-02 (between the Norfolk Southern railroad and CR-45).