Ohio Legislature Mandates Feasibility Study of Future I-73

[Beltway]

In other locations, traffic volumes alone may not support four-lane construction. Yet the presence of steep grades and heavy truck traffic could justify alternatives to a two-lane design. A similar rationale was used for the ongoing Interstate 79 widening project between Clarksburg and Morgantown. While traffic counts alone did not warrant the expansion, the persistent congestion caused by slow-moving trucks on steep inclines supported the need for additional capacity.

This pretty much describes I-81 through Virginia in a nutshell.

This pretty much describes I-81 between TN I-40 and Harrisburg PA in a nutshell.

Traffic volumes alone may not justify four-lane construction on I-81?  I'd imagine it does for I-81 through most of Virginia and up to I-78.

TN I-81 is 75 miles long and has very similar traffic patterns and volumes to the rest of I-81 up to where I-78 branches at West Jonestown PA.

[sprjus4]

The Portsmouth bypass is a limited-access freeway but is not interstate compatible. It has one-lane terminuses that cannot be easily widened and a two-lane segment at its southern end. The freeway is pretty new (completed in 2018), so I don't foresee ODOT reconstructing the two terminuses to accommodate two lanes.

Asides from the one lane endings, the rest of the highway would likely pass.

Missouri recently opened a new segment of I-49 between the Arkansas state line and Pineville, MO and has a very similiar cross section, through similar terrain: Street View

With that being said, I do not think this should be apart of any major interstate highway corridor as I've mentioned above. But I just wanted to point this out.

[Rothman]

In other locations, traffic volumes alone may not support four-lane construction. Yet the presence of steep grades and heavy truck traffic could justify alternatives to a two-lane design. A similar rationale was used for the ongoing Interstate 79 widening project between Clarksburg and Morgantown. While traffic counts alone did not warrant the expansion, the persistent congestion caused by slow-moving trucks on steep inclines supported the need for additional capacity.

This pretty much describes I-81 through Virginia in a nutshell.

This pretty much describes I-81 between TN I-40 and Harrisburg PA in a nutshell.

Traffic volumes alone may not justify four-lane construction on I-81?  I'd imagine it does for I-81 through most of Virginia and up to I-78.

Traffic volumes get down to around 40,000 - 45,000 AADT on a lot of I-81. On an interstate highway with level terrain and low truck volumes, this would suffice. I-64 between Richmond and Staunton is closer to these conditions and similar volumes, and rarely has any congestion issues. I wouldn't say that highway needs widening any time soon. This is a route I have driven semi-frequently, and often the difference between I-81 and I-64 on the days that I-81 gets pretty bad is night and day.

I-81 on the other hand, with similar volumes but varying grades and high truck percentages, warrants widening throughout due to those additional factors.

I posted too quickly.  Was thinking about four total lanes rather than four in a single direction.

Maybe I'm posting too quickly again.

I don't care.

[Beltway]

Traffic volumes get down to around 40,000 - 45,000 AADT on a lot of I-81. On an interstate highway with level terrain and low truck volumes, this would suffice. I-64 between Richmond and Staunton is closer to these conditions and similar volumes, and rarely has any congestion issues. I wouldn't say that highway needs widening any time soon. This is a route I have driven semi-frequently, and often the difference between I-81 and I-64 on the days that I-81 gets pretty bad is night and day.

I-64 between Staunton and Charlottesville has those volumes and is nearing six-lane warrants, and has the Afton Mountain grades, but I-64 between Charlottesville and Oilville (about 45 miles) is mostly in the low- to mid-30,000s and operates fine with four lanes (two each way). Then a few miles east of Oilville the highway opens up to six lanes (three each way) with that or more the rest of the way to Richmond.

[sprjus4]

Traffic volumes get down to around 40,000 - 45,000 AADT on a lot of I-81. On an interstate highway with level terrain and low truck volumes, this would suffice. I-64 between Richmond and Staunton is closer to these conditions and similar volumes, and rarely has any congestion issues. I wouldn't say that highway needs widening any time soon. This is a route I have driven semi-frequently, and often the difference between I-81 and I-64 on the days that I-81 gets pretty bad is night and day.

I-64 between Staunton and Charlottesville has those volumes and is nearing six-lane warrants, and has the Afton Mountain grades, but I-64 between Charlottesville and Oilville (about 45 miles) is mostly in the low- to mid-30,000s and operates fine with four lanes (two each way). Then a few miles east of Oilville the highway opens up to six lanes (three each way) with that or more the rest of the way to Richmond.

Afton Mountain definitely needs to at least have climbing lanes for the up-hill portions, and ideally six lanes through the whole thing, but I feel like the rest between Charlottesville and Staunton is okay for a while. With limited budget and priority for I-81 though, we likely won't be seeing much improvements coming to I-64 anytime soon, and it will be fine for a while.

[FutureInterstateCorridors]

Total waste of money. The only jam points on existing US 23/OH 15 is north of I-270 extending to Delaware, and in the Waverly area south of Chillicothe. The route would no doubt follow the Portsmouth bypass from Lucasville to Wheelersburg, which wasn't built to full modern interstate standards (minimal inside shoulders against the barrier wall).

The feasibility study is likely to agree with your assessment as ODOT and the Ohio Turnpike Commission concluded in the 1990's.  But local politicians in Southeast Ohio are ignoring this history and don't care about the public opposition that will grow as it did back then.  All the speculation that ODOT is going to route I-73 along U.S. 35 or U.S. 33 is never going to happen.  ODOT is already upgrading U.S. 23 south of Columbus and U.S. 33 to the Ohio River to complete the corridor to I-77, and only want to spend funds on these projects along with the "Route 23 Connect" project north of Columbus.  ODOT is only going through the motions to satisfy the State Legislature's direction, and knows full well that the new terrain I-73 will fail the feasibility study because of cost and low traffic counts along U.S. 23 south of Columbus.  ODOT also has no intention to shorten the environmental study phase either and is required to conduct a full study with another feasibility study for the FHWA and a draft environmental study and full environmental study as required for a new interstate highway facility under NEPA laws or else open itself and the FWHA to environmental lawsuits for no good reasons.  Future I-73 is not the high priority like the I-75 Brent Spence Bridge.

Can Future I-73 be built as envisioned by the Ohio State Legislature?  The answer is yes.  The legislature simply has to fund the construction 100% from the state budget, all $6B.  It can do this anytime it wants, and there is no requirement to follow NEPA studies, just build it as an interstate-standard freeway and request the interstate number I-73 from the AASHTO.  It doesn't matter if it's unfeasible and one car drives along the thing every two minutes, the state can spend Ohio taxpayer money on it all it wants, just not the Federal taxpayers of every other state.  But it's about getting the Federal government to pay for the internal "wishlist" of a few Ohio Legislators.  It is always funny to read all the fantasy "wishlist" routes of Future I-73, not seeming to get the point that the concept of I-73 was always a fantasy waste of time and money.

[TempoNick]

US 23 needs to be upgraded between Columbus and Chillicothe and through Waverly to connect to the bypass.

If you're following US-35, you don't need to bypass or upgrade Waverly. Most of US-35 southeast of Chillicothe is a 4 lane partially controlled access highway, and freeway or mostly freeway in many section.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if you wanted to use the original proposal, you have a lot of work to do between Chillicothe and the bypass versus US 35 being a pretty nice highway, at least until you get to Jackson.

[TempoNick]

I do feel this interstate is not only feasible, but necessary, especially between Columbus and Findlay.  I don't know this for a fact as I have not traveled it, but I have heard the route from I-270 to and through Delaware is treacherous.  And Columbus has a little over 2 million and Detroit well over 4 million population (I don't have my exact figures offhand) so the demand is indubitably there.

Metro Columbus is somewhere between 2.2 million and 2.3 million. Credible estimates say that we will be at 3 million in 25 years. And by "credible," I mean that they have been pretty much on the money in the past.

I-875 between Columbus and Findlay; I-677 between Columbus and I-77.

[seicer]

In other locations, traffic volumes alone may not support four-lane construction. Yet the presence of steep grades and heavy truck traffic could justify alternatives to a two-lane design. A similar rationale was used for the ongoing Interstate 79 widening project between Clarksburg and Morgantown. While traffic counts alone did not warrant the expansion, the persistent congestion caused by slow-moving trucks on steep inclines supported the need for additional capacity.

This pretty much describes I-81 through Virginia in a nutshell.

This pretty much describes I-81 between TN I-40 and Harrisburg PA in a nutshell.

I agree. It doesn't always take steep grades to create problems. Interstates 81 and 40 through the Shenandoah Valley, for example, don't have particularly steep climbs, but the long, gradual inclines are enough to slow trucks significantly. When a truck gets caught in the left lane and can't safely merge back over—often because the right lane is already congested—it can lead to substantial backups. It's easy to say that left-lane blockers should be ticketed, but in many of these cases, it's not intentional. The conditions simply don't allow for a safe lane change.

If we look at Rothman's state of New York, we can see similar corridor-level justifications for improvements of highways, too. It's not just a West Virginia or Kentucky or Ohio thing. NY Route 17 has been incrementally upgraded across the Southern Tier and Catskills since the 1940s, from improved two-lane roads that became expressways that became freeways. And it spurred a lot of economic development along its path, cut travel times drastically, and made it easier to be more mobile in a region that had few through routes.

[hbelkins]

In other locations, traffic volumes alone may not support four-lane construction. Yet the presence of steep grades and heavy truck traffic could justify alternatives to a two-lane design. A similar rationale was used for the ongoing Interstate 79 widening project between Clarksburg and Morgantown. While traffic counts alone did not warrant the expansion, the persistent congestion caused by slow-moving trucks on steep inclines supported the need for additional capacity.

This pretty much describes I-81 through Virginia in a nutshell.

This pretty much describes I-81 between TN I-40 and Harrisburg PA in a nutshell.

I agree. It doesn't always take steep grades to create problems. Interstates 81 and 40 through the Shenandoah Valley, for example, don't have particularly steep climbs, but the long, gradual inclines are enough to slow trucks significantly. When a truck gets caught in the left lane and can't safely merge back over—often because the right lane is already congested—it can lead to substantial backups. It's easy to say that left-lane blockers should be ticketed, but in many of these cases, it's not intentional. The conditions simply don't allow for a safe lane change.

The only real grades on I-81 in Tennessee are near Kingsport at the Holston River crossing.

Virginia handles the grades in the Marion area, which don't seem all that steep but do cause truck slowdowns, by posting regulatory signs saying that trucks operating under the speed limit (used to be 65 mph, but the signs were patched to read 70 mph) must use the right lane. This is a (futile, in my experience) attempt to eliminate micropassing.

[TempoNick]

Asides from the one lane endings, the rest of the highway would likely pass.

Quite a few interstates have one lane transitions to another highway so I don't see what the big deal is. OH 823 would be fine as part of an interstate. Might have to be 60 mph, though.

[sprjus4]

Asides from the one lane endings, the rest of the highway would likely pass.

Quite a few interstates have one lane transitions to another highway so I don't see what the big deal is.

Well yes, but this wouldn't be a transition to another highway. This would be staying on the same highway, I-73 in this instance.

Might have to be 60 mph, though.

Why? It's posted at 70 mph today.

[Beltway]

The only real grades on I-81 in Tennessee are near Kingsport at the Holston River crossing.
Virginia handles the grades in the Marion area, which don't seem all that steep but do cause truck slowdowns, by posting regulatory signs saying that trucks operating under the speed limit (used to be 65 mph, but the signs were patched to read 70 mph) must use the right lane. This is a (futile, in my experience) attempt to eliminate micropassing.

But at least it tells them to try -- much better than having no such rule.

Even fairly level highways like I-65 Indy-NW Indiana are plagued  by not having such a rule.

Indiana also still has split speed limits -- trucks over 26,000 lbs are limited to 65 mph on rural interstates, while passenger vehicles may go up to 70 mph.

[Rothman]

In other locations, traffic volumes alone may not support four-lane construction. Yet the presence of steep grades and heavy truck traffic could justify alternatives to a two-lane design. A similar rationale was used for the ongoing Interstate 79 widening project between Clarksburg and Morgantown. While traffic counts alone did not warrant the expansion, the persistent congestion caused by slow-moving trucks on steep inclines supported the need for additional capacity.

This pretty much describes I-81 through Virginia in a nutshell.

This pretty much describes I-81 between TN I-40 and Harrisburg PA in a nutshell.

I agree. It doesn't always take steep grades to create problems. Interstates 81 and 40 through the Shenandoah Valley, for example, don't have particularly steep climbs, but the long, gradual inclines are enough to slow trucks significantly. When a truck gets caught in the left lane and can't safely merge back over—often because the right lane is already congested—it can lead to substantial backups. It's easy to say that left-lane blockers should be ticketed, but in many of these cases, it's not intentional. The conditions simply don't allow for a safe lane change.

If we look at Rothman's state of New York, we can see similar corridor-level justifications for improvements of highways, too. It's not just a West Virginia or Kentucky or Ohio thing. NY Route 17 has been incrementally upgraded across the Southern Tier and Catskills since the 1940s, from improved two-lane roads that became expressways that became freeways. And it spurred a lot of economic development along its path, cut travel times drastically, and made it easier to be more mobile in a region that had few through routes.

And yet, a former NYSDOT commissioner traveling through Parksville during its construction blurted out rhetorically, "Why are we doing this?"

Took a long time before NYSDOT touched NY 17 again.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[wriddle082]

The only real grades on I-81 in Tennessee are near Kingsport at the Holston River crossing.
Virginia handles the grades in the Marion area, which don't seem all that steep but do cause truck slowdowns, by posting regulatory signs saying that trucks operating under the speed limit (used to be 65 mph, but the signs were patched to read 70 mph) must use the right lane. This is a (futile, in my experience) attempt to eliminate micropassing.

But at least it tells them to try -- much better than having no such rule.

Even fairly level highways like I-65 Indy-NW Indiana are plagued  by not having such a rule.

Indiana also still has split speed limits -- trucks over 26,000 lbs are limited to 65 mph on rural interstates, while passenger vehicles may go up to 70 mph.

Those signs also exist on basically the entirety of I-77 south of I-81 to the NC border, and they are essentially ignored by truckers.

Between the micropassing truckers (and larger than normal quantities of them as it's the oversized load detour for I-40), aggressive speed enforcement around Hillsville, and often treacherous weather conditions through the Fancy Gap grade, I-77 is often a miserable drive south of I-81 in Virginia.  It needs to be either 6-8 lanes in its entirety (down to the I-74 split in NC), or needs a relief route.  Like an I-73 or I-74.

[sprjus4]

The only real grades on I-81 in Tennessee are near Kingsport at the Holston River crossing.
Virginia handles the grades in the Marion area, which don't seem all that steep but do cause truck slowdowns, by posting regulatory signs saying that trucks operating under the speed limit (used to be 65 mph, but the signs were patched to read 70 mph) must use the right lane. This is a (futile, in my experience) attempt to eliminate micropassing.

But at least it tells them to try -- much better than having no such rule.

Even fairly level highways like I-65 Indy-NW Indiana are plagued  by not having such a rule.

Indiana also still has split speed limits -- trucks over 26,000 lbs are limited to 65 mph on rural interstates, while passenger vehicles may go up to 70 mph.

Those signs also exist on basically the entirety of I-77 south of I-81 to the NC border, and they are essentially ignored by truckers.

Between the micropassing truckers (and larger than normal quantities of them as it's the oversized load detour for I-40), aggressive speed enforcement around Hillsville, and often treacherous weather conditions through the Fancy Gap grade, I-77 is often a miserable drive south of I-81 in Virginia.  It needs to be either 6-8 lanes in its entirety (down to the I-74 split in NC), or needs a relief route.  Like an I-73 or I-74.

At a minimum, it needs climbing lanes throughout in both directions on the uphills. One exists northbound over Fancy Gap, but that's not nearly enough.

The slow moving trucks are frustrating on this stretch, and often quickly backs up traffic and creates a sea of brake lights for miles.

[thenetwork]

The only real grades on I-81 in Tennessee are near Kingsport at the Holston River crossing.
Virginia handles the grades in the Marion area, which don't seem all that steep but do cause truck slowdowns, by posting regulatory signs saying that trucks operating under the speed limit (used to be 65 mph, but the signs were patched to read 70 mph) must use the right lane. This is a (futile, in my experience) attempt to eliminate micropassing.

But at least it tells them to try -- much better than having no such rule.

Even fairly level highways like I-65 Indy-NW Indiana are plagued  by not having such a rule.

Indiana also still has split speed limits -- trucks over 26,000 lbs are limited to 65 mph on rural interstates, while passenger vehicles may go up to 70 mph.

Those signs also exist on basically the entirety of I-77 south of I-81 to the NC border, and they are essentially ignored by truckers.

Between the micropassing truckers (and larger than normal quantities of them as it's the oversized load detour for I-40), aggressive speed enforcement around Hillsville, and often treacherous weather conditions through the Fancy Gap grade, I-77 is often a miserable drive south of I-81 in Virginia.  It needs to be either 6-8 lanes in its entirety (down to the I-74 split in NC), or needs a relief route.  Like an I-73 or I-74.

At a minimum, it needs climbing lanes throughout in both directions on the uphills. One exists northbound over Fancy Gap, but that's not nearly enough.

The slow moving trucks are frustrating on this stretch, and often quickly backs up traffic and creates a sea of brake lights for miles.

If only Virginia was as crackdown-vigilant with left-lane slowpokes as it is with (gasp) radar detectors.

[Beltway]

But at least it tells them to try -- much better than having no such rule.
Even fairly level highways like I-65 Indy-NW Indiana are plagued  by not having such a rule.
Indiana also still has split speed limits -- trucks over 26,000 lbs are limited to 65 mph on rural interstates, while passenger vehicles may go up to 70 mph.

Those signs also exist on basically the entirety of I-77 south of I-81 to the NC border, and they are essentially ignored by truckers.
Between the micropassing truckers (and larger than normal quantities of them as it's the oversized load detour for I-40), aggressive speed enforcement around Hillsville, and often treacherous weather conditions through the Fancy Gap grade, I-77 is often a miserable drive south of I-81 in Virginia.  It needs to be either 6-8 lanes in its entirety (down to the I-74 split in NC), or needs a relief route.  Like an I-73 or I-74.

My experiences have been quite a bit better but . . .

AADT south of I-81 to THS is in the 27,000 to 31,000 range, large truck % in the 25 to 28 range, edging to or near six-lane warrants. The 2002 rebuilt New River Bridge has a future lane on each bridge in addition to the two current lanes.

AADT north of I-81 to WV is in the 38,000 to 43,000 range, large truck % in the 25 to 28 range, definitely six-lane (three each way) warrants.

Not sure how they will handle the two tunnels, though. Probably a pair of new 2-lane tubes for each.

[TempoNick]

Asides from the one lane endings, the rest of the highway would likely pass.

Quite a few interstates have one lane transitions to another highway so I don't see what the big deal is.

Well yes, but this wouldn't be a transition to another highway. This would be staying on the same highway, I-73 in this instance.

Might have to be 60 mph, though.

Why? It's posted at 70 mph today.

I've seen one lane transitions to the same highway as well. Heck, Columbus had one from the east freeway, to continue on I-70.

But if you are talking about US 23 South to 823, I imagine that can get rebuilt. I never understood why they did things that way in the first place. I always thought it should be two continuous lanes, with maybe an "exit" lane to continue on to US 23, kind of like what you see on the 161 freeway near Sunbury Rd. where the left lane continues on to 161 and the right two or three lanes "exit" to I-270.

It seems like rougher terrain at the end of 823, however. Maybe that would not be such an easy task.

As to the speed limit, it may be 70 today, but I'm imagining a lot more congestion and truck traffic as an interstate. The way that highway is situated, could it handle high speeds with increased traffic?

[Bitmapped]

As to the speed limit, it may be 70 today, but I'm imagining a lot more congestion and truck traffic as an interstate. The way that highway is situated, could it handle high speeds with increased traffic?

Even if it were to be redesignated as part of an Ohio I-73, the SR 823 Portsmouth Bypass is unlikely to see a significant increase in traffic. WV isn't building I-73/I-74 as a freeway, and it's unlikely to be completed as 4-lane US 52 for decades if ever. The most might happen is a dualized West Huntington Bridge because the current two-lane one is carrying 23K vehicles per day.

That means you're left with the traffic coming up US 23 in Kentucky now or from the Huntington area, and all that is already using SR 823. Traffic coming up I-77 is still going to take US 33 or US 35, which are both about 25 miles shorter. Travel time along on a freeway I-73 corridor isn't going to be that much improved over US 23 that's there now to draw a significant amount of traffic from TN and south over to US 23 that wasn't already going that way.