Introducing the AARoads Wiki

[WillWeaverRVA]

To delete an article from Wikipedia, either it has to meet one of the twenty-one Criteria for Speedy Deletion (CSD), either one of the fourteen Category G CSDs or the seven Category A CSDs, or it has to pass through the PROD process by unanimous consent, or it has to lose an AFD vote by an amount enough for it to be considered consensus. An administrator is not allowed to actually count the votes in such a discussion, they just have to read the entire discussion and decide what its vibe is, so if it's sort of close to a tie they can just say "no consensus" and not actually do anything. Of course if it's overwhelming in one direction or the other a SNOWclose can happen. Also if you seem like you joined Wikipedia just to vote on AFDs, you will either have your votes disregarded for that reason or you will be nominated to become an admin, depending on how many acronyms you can remember.

God, I absolutely do NOT miss being a Wikipedia admin, even though I basically lived at AFD for most of that time.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't understand how so many people can stand that level of internal bureaucracy and not even be paid to participate in it. 

[WillWeaverRVA]

I don't understand how so many people can stand that level of internal bureaucracy and not even be paid to participate in it. 

As for me, I blame my autism.

[Scott5114]

I don't understand how so many people can stand that level of internal bureaucracy and not even be paid to participate in it. 

The main benefit is you occasionally get to tell someone they're wrong on the internet.

[WillWeaverRVA]

I don't understand how so many people can stand that level of internal bureaucracy and not even be paid to participate in it. 

The main benefit is you occasionally get to tell someone they're wrong on the internet.

Case in point, my deletion log.

[formulanone]

I don't understand how so many people can stand that level of internal bureaucracy and not even be paid to participate in it. 

The main benefit is you occasionally get to tell someone they're wrong on the internet.

Case in point, my deletion log.

I'd imagine 95% of the deletions were Mr. Jones, my Physical Education teacher, Joe The Dickhead in 4th Period Class, and a few thousand Alanland-ish items. The 4-5% were either duplicates or super-trivial differences to an existing article which took up 99% of your time, and a tiny sliver just fell through the cracks until someone got it approved on a sunny day.

[rschen7754]

In case anyone was wondering how things are going on Wikipedia, today someone put the article for US-131 on the Main Page and it lasted for all of four hours before someone shit their pants over it and made the guy in charge of choosing main page articles change it to something else.

A slight correction, US 131 was scheduled for September 22, 2025 and was pulled four hours later. Which is even worse.

[Scott5114]

I'd imagine 95% of the deletions were Mr. Jones, my Physical Education teacher, Joe The Dickhead in 4th Period Class, and a few thousand Alanland-ish items

Those would all fall under CSD rather than AFD, so they would have all been winnowed out before they got to Will if he was just sitting at AFD.

(When I was active on Wikipedia I used to do new page patrol because you got to see all of that fun stuff and it was easy to delete all of without thinking too hard about it. Unfortunately, at some point new page patrol seems to have become a game of "delete as much as you can and shove the rest to draft space so we can delete it in a year when everyone has forgotten about it". Wikipedia really, really hates new content these days.)

[WillWeaverRVA]

I'd imagine 95% of the deletions were Mr. Jones, my Physical Education teacher, Joe The Dickhead in 4th Period Class, and a few thousand Alanland-ish items

Those would all fall under CSD rather than AFD, so they would have all been winnowed out before they got to Will if he was just sitting at AFD.

(When I was active on Wikipedia I used to do new page patrol because you got to see all of that fun stuff and it was easy to delete all of without thinking too hard about it. Unfortunately, at some point new page patrol seems to have become a game of "delete as much as you can and shove the rest to draft space so we can delete it in a year when everyone has forgotten about it". Wikipedia really, really hates new content these days.)

I once deleted an article where the author proposed solving global warming by building an enormous air conditioner.

[LilianaUwU]

I'd imagine 95% of the deletions were Mr. Jones, my Physical Education teacher, Joe The Dickhead in 4th Period Class, and a few thousand Alanland-ish items

Those would all fall under CSD rather than AFD, so they would have all been winnowed out before they got to Will if he was just sitting at AFD.

(When I was active on Wikipedia I used to do new page patrol because you got to see all of that fun stuff and it was easy to delete all of without thinking too hard about it. Unfortunately, at some point new page patrol seems to have become a game of "delete as much as you can and shove the rest to draft space so we can delete it in a year when everyone has forgotten about it". Wikipedia really, really hates new content these days.)

I once deleted an article where the author proposed solving global warming by building an enormous air conditioner.

wait let em cook??

[kphoger]

I once deleted an article where the author proposed ...

Since when are Wikipedia articles supposed to be anything other than simply informative?

[chesapeake256]

Question in regards to the wiki: Are pre-Good Roads Movement (i.e. pre-Auto Trail) roads within the scope of the wiki?

I have a lot of researched info and sources saved (and the locations of other relevant sources) regarding early roads ordered by state legislatures and, in some cases, county commissioners. These roads roughly span the period of 1790 to 1910, and are my main area of road-related expertise at this point (as I have researched them for about 8 years at this point). I have also added quite a number of them to OHM (my username on there and Wikipedia is TZLNCTV). I have added a couple articles on Wikipedia previously; one still remaining is at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worthington-New_Haven_State_Road

I also have a working map which I use to track and source those additions and has at least name and date (and as I get around to it, direct sourcing info) for each road I've located an establishing act for). If there is an interest in having pages for these historic roads, and others want to help add information about them, I could post a public link to it here to give people a useful point to work from.

Additionally, my research of original subdivision plats has led me to discover scanned original road records in several Ohio counties (they seem to typically be held by the county engineer). These records include establishments and alterations of roads ranging in some cases from around the creation of the state in 1803 to the creation of the US Highways in 1926. I was wondering also if I could upload some of these maps.

[kphoger]

a lot

Dude, some of us on here are deeply religious people, and that post might present a moral dilemma in which we feel the urge to worship you as a roadgeek god but at the same time realize that doing so would violate the most fundamental of our religious convictions.  Are you really sure you want to risk encouraging apostacy like that?

[LilianaUwU]

a lot

Dude, some of us on here are deeply religious people, and that post might present a moral dilemma in which we feel the urge to worship you as a roadgeek god but at the same time realize that doing so would violate the most fundamental of our religious convictions.  Are you really sure you want to risk encouraging apostacy like that?

Do religious people write it as "alot"?

[kphoger]

Do religious people write it as "alot"?

TRIGGERED!!

[formulanone]

Do religious people write it as "alot"?

TRIGGERED!!

No, they use "a Lot".

[Big John]

Do religious people write it as "alot"?

TRIGGERED!!

No, they use "a Lot".

or Lot's wife.

[chesapeake256]

a lot

Dude, some of us on here are deeply religious people, and that post might present a moral dilemma in which we feel the urge to worship you as a roadgeek god but at the same time realize that doing so would violate the most fundamental of our religious convictions.  Are you really sure you want to risk encouraging apostacy like that?

Lol... Well, I can temper the enthusiasm a bit by noting that the documents I have saved are on my computer at home, and I just arrived in Elkins, WV for a stopover before spending a week in Virginia. For about a week and a half to 2 weeks I will be unable to do much in that regard. As soon as I get a chance and can use my laptop, however, I'll post a link to the overview working map (as that's stored via Google MyMaps).

(I actually wasn't anticipating interest, as I had noticed that my 19th-century road articles hadn't been brought to the wiki when the move was announced as complete).


For the time being I will list counties that I recall to have public road records:

* (A couple counties in WV, but the IDX system doesn't let you download them; they also don't appear to have survey maps with them, just a description and order)

* Auglaize County, OH [Original maps/records missing but creation date and order referenced in modern road sheets]

* Belmont County, OH

* Butler County, OH [Also includes taxation records related to county-established Free Turnpikes]

* Hocking County, OH [PARTIAL - Book B (?) missing]

* Holmes County, OH

* Licking County, OH [PARTIAL - earliest road records not accompanied by maps]

* Monroe County, OH [PARTIAL - book missing]

* Seneca County, OH

* Tuscarawas County, OH

These are the counties to the best of my recollection that have their Road Records books online somewhere.

[kphoger]

I actually wasn't anticipating interest, as I had noticed that my 19th-century road articles hadn't been brought to the wiki when the move was announced as complete.

Oh, I should mention that I am in no way involved in the wiki.  I was just assuming two things:

(1) The fruit of your labors would be welcomed in the wiki.  My assumption could be wrong, but I doubt it.

(2) Even if it doesn't draw widespread interest on here, there are bound to be three or four members who would be very keenly interested.

[NE2]

I've seen some people saying old turnpikes don't belong, which I think is bullshit.

[LilianaUwU]

I've seen some people saying old turnpikes don't belong, which I think is bullshit.

I also disagree. Maybe we could revisit the idea. (Actually, revisiting the idea was mentioned at one point.)

[Max Rockatansky]

If you Wiki editors are going are just going to limit yourselves to modern automotive roads it really IMO lessens the potential of your endeavor.

[Scott5114]

Question in regards to the wiki: Are pre-Good Roads Movement (i.e. pre-Auto Trail) roads within the scope of the wiki?

The short answer to this is "not usually"; the general cutoff for the wiki is basically the invention of the automobile. That being said, if one of these pre-automobile roads is a clear predecessor of an auto trail or state highway, it would be helpful to briefly cover it in the history section of the relevant automobile road.

The relevant discussion wasn't very long, so it may be worth reading through that to get an idea of where everyone stands on it. That being said, it is a wiki, so if you want to, you could always open a new discussion on The Interchange to see if an adjustment to the scope rules for the particular roads you have in mind might be warranted. Past experience shows that there aren't a lot of people interested in maintaining articles that far back in history, which was probably on most of the commenter's minds, so having someone offering to write and maintain the articles could change the calculus there.

Also, some of the things that we chose not to import were left out because we figured they were at low risk of deletion on Wikipedia. (This is why we didn't import the articles for most bridges and tunnels, for example.) Pre-auto roads probably qualify, since the deletionists are currently targeting articles cited mostly to maps and DOT documentation, whereas pre-auto road articles tend to use other types of sources. If the deletionists start moving in on those articles for other reasons, that would be good cause for the community to re-evaluate whether to include them in the AARoads Wiki.

Additionally, my research of original subdivision plats has led me to discover scanned original road records in several Ohio counties (they seem to typically be held by the county engineer). These records include establishments and alterations of roads ranging in some cases from around the creation of the state in 1803 to the creation of the US Highways in 1926. I was wondering also if I could upload some of these maps.

For the most part, our wiki uses Wikimedia Commons for file hosting, so if it meets Commons' criteria for inclusion (which most of these maps likely would by virtue of copyright having expired, see the Hirtle chart for more information), by all means you should upload it there. (Because we want to keep server space usage to a minimum so as to not draw on Alex's finances any more than we have to, we have local uploading disabled for non-administrators. The only things we have hosted locally are shields which are copyright-encumbered and therefore not accepted by Commons.)

[Scott5114]

I once deleted an article where the author proposed ...

Since when are Wikipedia articles supposed to be anything other than simply informative?

Well, yeah, that's what the new page patrol is for, to let the admins know about articles that aren't supposed to be there, so they can be deleted.

If you want to get a taste of the experience, it's all publicly accessible, even without an account. You're bound to find some gems if you refresh the page every so often. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:NewPages

(I saw one just now for "Dum Dum Municipality", which I thought had to be a hoax article, but it appears to actually be a place in West Bengal.)

If you Wiki editors are going are just going to limit yourselves to modern automotive roads it really IMO lessens the potential of your endeavor.

Perhaps, but one lesson learned from 20 years of experience is that just because a wiki article is "finished", much like a road itself, it does not mean that the work is done. Maintenance is an ongoing responsibility as well, because of things like changes to templates breaking articles, as well as good old-fashioned link rot.

Because the audience for this sort of wiki is smaller than Wikipedia, the pool of potential editors is much smaller too. In the past, we benefited from things like editors whose primary interest is the works of Chaucer doing a bulk edit that fixes our articles as well as their own. We can no longer count on the crossover assistance of those sorts of editors.

Thus, the scope limitations are an attempt to avoid "biting off more than we can chew" by limiting the amount of maintenance liability we accept. That being said, if there are editors who would be willing to join the community and help maintain articles but for the fact that their preferred subject area is just slightly out of scope, we're willing to consider redrawing the lines to include those articles, if it would be a logical addition to the coverage we already have.

[Max Rockatansky]

I tend to not think this hobby is limited to only modern highways or roads that carry numbers.  If there was something I think our own page hits on really well is getting outside that traditionally road fan/road geek sphere.

To that end, I look at something recent I did like our article on with Chowchilla Mountain Road.  That definitely is far from a modern roadway but is also something that even hard core Yosemite and California history nerds missed.  When we posted an article out the corridor on our page it got a really good response.  Said response was people largely outside the hobby mainstream. 

I tend to find there is a lot of people outside the mainstream of this hobby that like roads also.  We aren't going to reach those folks sticking to hobby staples like numbered highways and photos of road signs.  Nostalgia/history are huge untapped demographics.  Many here are capable of doing it way better than bargain basement brand pages you see on social media.