Madison Area

[Big John]

Why in the bloody hell would they even be proposing new stop lights on 51 at MKE St...

https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/us51-corridor/0725milwaukee.pdf

For the EIS, they have to show they considered other alternatives.

[WISFreeways]

Madison Beltline study: website claims PEL out by "summer 2025"; I guess we'll have to wait at most 16 more days.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/default.aspx

I-39/90/94 study: super exciting!
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

US 12 freeway conversion to WIS 19: crickets. Despite being arguably the most important of the current studies.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/12freeway/default.aspx

[mgk920]

I do like the idea of a full directional 'T' interchange between the (interstates) and US 151 to the northeast at Washington Ave ('East Towne interchange').  A full separation of the freeway-to-freeway' traffic from the local surface streets, as well as from the transit BRT line at that location.

Mike

[hobsini2]

I do like the idea of a full directional 'T' interchange between the (interstates) and US 151 to the northeast at Washington Ave ('East Towne interchange').  A full separation of the freeway-to-freeway' traffic from the local surface streets, as well as from the transit BRT line at that location.

Mike

More like the 41/29 interchange in Green Bay or the 39/90/43 interchange in Beloit? I don't think there's enough room for the latter at 151 and 30/90/94.

[The Ghostbuster]

It appears that either a standard diamond interchange or a SPUI will be constructed as the service interchange at the reconstructed Interstate 39/90/94 interchange at US 151: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/399094/0124us151highcrossicalt1directionalspuivsdiamond.pdf.

[mgk920]

I do like the idea of a full directional 'T' interchange between the (interstates) and US 151 to the northeast at Washington Ave ('East Towne interchange').  A full separation of the freeway-to-freeway' traffic from the local surface streets, as well as from the transit BRT line at that location.

Mike

More like the 41/29 interchange in Green Bay or the 39/90/43 interchange in Beloit? I don't think there's enough room for the latter at 151 and 30/90/94.

I have seen WisDOT drawings of it, with the freeway ramps 'piggybacked' over the restored local surface streets.  It is tight with no full '65' speed ramps and ROW takings, but it does work.

Mike

[mgk920]

It appears that either a standard diamond interchange or a SPUI will be constructed as the service interchange at the reconstructed Interstate 39/90/94 interchange at US 151: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/399094/0124us151highcrossicalt1directionalspuivsdiamond.pdf.

Those look to me like full 'free flow' for the connections between the US 151 freeway to the northeast and the interstate(s) with Washington Ave/High Crossing Bd to the northeast getting the 'Texas frontage road' treatment.  It is more apparent in the second option (the 'conventional diamond' for the Washington Ave surface street).  WisDOT is definitely planning this for the long term.

Mike

[WISFreeways]

To clarify.
Here is the preferred alternative for the I-39/90/94 study.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/sw/399094/1224section2.pdf

[Sani]

I'm kind of surprised they're not looking at an interchange at Hanson Road / Eastpark Boulevard instead of Hoepker Road, especially with the UW Health East Madison complex being right there. I know it's just over a mile from US 151, but you could put ramps to and from northbound 39/90/94 to a roundabout on Portage Road at the north entrance to the hospital and have the ramps to and from the southbound interstate wrap around the substation on the northwest corner of the interchange.

[thspfc]

I'm kind of surprised they're not looking at an interchange at Hanson Road / Eastpark Boulevard instead of Hoepker Road, especially with the UW Health East Madison complex being right there. I know it's just over a mile from US 151, but you could put ramps to and from northbound 39/90/94 to a roundabout on Portage Road at the north entrance to the hospital and have the ramps to and from the southbound interstate wrap around the substation on the northwest corner of the interchange.

I've been wanting this for years. If it's not happening with this study then it never will.

[mgk920]

WisDOT and the FHWA both frown on adding new interchanges unless absolutely necessary, especially in urbanized(ing) areas.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

Building an interchange at Hanson Rd., while serving East Madison Hospital directly, would be problematic for a couple of reasons. The northbound ramps would likely be too close to the Eastpark Blvd./Hanson Rd./Portage Rd. roundabout. In order to build an interchange in the southbound direction, an electrical substation would have to be relocated, although relocating the western Hanson Rd./Portage Rd. intersection would not be a problem. This is probably why they proposed building the new interchange at Hoepker Rd. As for the new Milwaukee St. interchange, an alternative would be building a new interchange at Gaston Rd., although they would have to tear down a few houses to make a connection there.

[WISFreeways]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

[Sani]

Building an interchange at Hanson Rd., while serving East Madison Hospital directly, would be problematic for a couple of reasons. The northbound ramps would likely be too close to the Eastpark Blvd./Hanson Rd./Portage Rd. roundabout. In order to build an interchange in the southbound direction, an electrical substation would have to be relocated, although relocating the western Hanson Rd./Portage Rd. intersection would not be a problem. This is probably why they proposed building the new interchange at Hoepker Rd. As for the new Milwaukee St. interchange, an alternative would be building a new interchange at Gaston Rd., although they would have to tear down a few houses to make a connection there.

Here's what I had in mind... (Pardon the Google Drive link to my super artistic sketch)

[Plutonic Panda]

Just curious about the mentality of Madison and its residents regarding growth. I'm surprised it isn't bigger than it is and having never been there I'm making an assumption that any proposal for high rises or a subway would be met with resistance but I don't know the reality up there.

[The Ghostbuster]

There was a proposal for commuter rail as part of the Transport 2020 plan: https://www.transport2020.net/index.html. During the BRT meetings, I was told the reason the commuter rail proposal wasn't implemented was because Madison was too small of a city. Since I personally prefer buses to trains, I am happy commuter rail didn't come to Madison and am pleased with the BRT project that was implemented last year (even though I think giving BRT its own exclusive lane is overkill).

[SEWIGuy]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

The last time I saw this many bad ideas in a single paragraph, it involved FritzOwl

[mgk920]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

The last time I saw this many bad ideas in a single paragraph, it involved FritzOwl

I'll just wait (assuming that I live long enough to see it) for the USSupremes to rule that a local zoning related development denial is a 'compensatible public taking' under 5A (yes, I sense that the current Court could very well do that), overturning a century-old decision to the contrary.  Also the (related?) trend towards 'desuburbanization' that I see starting within the next several decades.

Mike

[mgk920]

I also see that WisDOT is acknowledging that the Cascade Interchange (I-39 split near Portage) is a total P.O.S. and that they are essentially planning to scrape the whole thing off and start over from scratch, addressing the current one's MANY and varied deficiencies.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

A pilot test project will close the peak-hour driving lanes on Williamson St. starting today: https://www.wmtv15news.com/2025/09/09/willy-street-pilot-lane-closure-begin-tuesday/.

[mgk920]

My only 'complaint' about the proposed redo of the East Towne Interchange (US 151/Washington Ave) is that the 'Texas style' paired one-way frontage roads should be seriously simplified.

Mike

[Scott5114]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

The last time I saw this many bad ideas in a single paragraph, it involved FritzOwl

I'll just wait (assuming that I live long enough to see it) for the USSupremes to rule that a local zoning related development denial is a 'compensatible public taking' under 5A (yes, I sense that the current Court could very well do that), overturning a century-old decision to the contrary.  Also the (related?) trend towards 'desuburbanization' that I see starting within the next several decades.

Mike

I definitely think you're right that this is a plausible action by the current court. I find it ironic, however, that the political impetus for doing so is to favor a group who will find the likely outcome appalling—not only the bizarre results that Houston gets from lack of zoning laws, but it will also remove the primary tool NIMBYs use to obstruct development. That makes things like 15-minute cities and other forms of New Urbanism more attainable, as well as potentially resolving the California housing crisis, which would probably put that state back on the path to long-term population growth.

[Rothman]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

The last time I saw this many bad ideas in a single paragraph, it involved FritzOwl

I'll just wait (assuming that I live long enough to see it) for the USSupremes to rule that a local zoning related development denial is a 'compensatible public taking' under 5A (yes, I sense that the current Court could very well do that), overturning a century-old decision to the contrary.  Also the (related?) trend towards 'desuburbanization' that I see starting within the next several decades.

Mike

I definitely think you're right that this is a plausible action by the current court. I find it ironic, however, that the political impetus for doing so is to favor a group who will find the likely outcome appalling—not only the bizarre results that Houston gets from lack of zoning laws, but it will also remove the primary tool NIMBYs use to obstruct development. That makes things like 15-minute cities and other forms of New Urbanism more attainable, as well as potentially resolving the California housing crisis, which would probably put that state back on the path to long-term population growth.

This seems a very optimistic view.  There could be a whole host of negative outcomes from such a ruling as well.  Could even go the other way and result in more single-family housing being built...

[mgk920]

Over the several decades during which I dabbled in planning and development issues (I have a degree in it), the vast majority of 'controversies' that I have seen have involved developers wanting more units and denser development and existing neighbors who wanted less.  Also, especially since the turn of the century, I have seen a strong trend away from detached 1f and towards various levels of denser multi-family.

Mike

[Scott5114]

Madison should adopt Houston-like zoning laws that permit the easy construction of highrises, of course without breaching the height limit. Then it should reconstruct the Beltline and I-39/90 and convert US 51, Pleasant View Road/McKee Road and US 12 north of Middleton into freeways. Of course, all of this extra space would probably spike the population and necessitate the introduction of a subway system...

The last time I saw this many bad ideas in a single paragraph, it involved FritzOwl

I'll just wait (assuming that I live long enough to see it) for the USSupremes to rule that a local zoning related development denial is a 'compensatible public taking' under 5A (yes, I sense that the current Court could very well do that), overturning a century-old decision to the contrary.  Also the (related?) trend towards 'desuburbanization' that I see starting within the next several decades.

Mike

I definitely think you're right that this is a plausible action by the current court. I find it ironic, however, that the political impetus for doing so is to favor a group who will find the likely outcome appalling—not only the bizarre results that Houston gets from lack of zoning laws, but it will also remove the primary tool NIMBYs use to obstruct development. That makes things like 15-minute cities and other forms of New Urbanism more attainable, as well as potentially resolving the California housing crisis, which would probably put that state back on the path to long-term population growth.

This seems a very optimistic view.  There could be a whole host of negative outcomes from such a ruling as well.  Could even go the other way and result in more single-family housing being built...

You aren't wrong, but having always lived somewhere where more single-family housing being built is the default anyway, I don't really see that particular outcome as being much of a change in the status quo.