Scott Adams, ‘Dilbert’ Creator, Dies at 68

[Rothman]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

[kalvado]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

I'm the same. I still think "Himself" is funny. I can separate the art from the artist. I don't like Michael Jackson songs any less despite knowing Jackson's personal life. I still think Salvadore Dali paintings are interesting even if he was a bigot and a fascist.

As I mentioned, same with "Dilbert." I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around. I think the issue is if you don't separate the art from the artist, then you're on an endless quest to find some kind of perfect person, who doesn't exist.

As an aside, it kind of reminds me of people who won't buy certain products because they use sweatshop labor or have been involved in something bad in the past. Noble at face value, but the issue here is ANYTHING you do can at some point be traced to something bad, depending how far back you go. Unless you are 100% off the grid and do everything yourself from making your own clothes to growing your own food, trying to live life in such a way you are never listening to controversial artists or wearing clothes that were made in poor working conditions is just going to frustrate you and probably lead to an early death.

Wouldn't help if you live in US on a land stollen from native tribes subjected to genocide.

Yes, that's my point. If you are alive right now, and live in [country], odds are something horrible happened there. And if you continue to live there and pay taxes, one could make the argument that you are okay with that horrible thing happening.

Except, life isn't that simple. That's kind of my point. Someone who still listens to Cosby stand-up or MJ music shouldn't be interpreted as an endorsement of the actual person. That's kind of my thoughts on Adams, as I said earlier. He was a person I would not have liked very much if I knew him. But I can appreciate he created an iconic comic.

A few times i had a chance to talk to authors of great books - not in a formal setting, but e.g. in their blog comments. I am not sure I want to be friends with at least some of them.. .Not denying that books are pretty enjoyable at the same time. So I learnt to draw a line.

[Rothman]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

If you'd like.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

If you'd like.

I expect that to become the social norm! /s

[kphoger]

I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around.

If we gave most anybody a platform and a microphone to just say whatever the heck they think for everyone in the nation to hear, then...  Well, I imagine we'd probably consider most people to be someone we wouldn't want to be around.

Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

but should we boycott their work?

If you'd like.

Thomas Edison neglected his wife and their oft-ill son.  After she died, Edison remarried and neglected that wife and their children as well.

I fully expect you to abstain from purchasing vacuum-sealed foods for this reason.

[kalvado]

I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around.

If we gave most anybody a platform and a microphone to just say whatever the heck they think for everyone in the nation to hear, then...  Well, I imagine we'd probably consider most people to be someone we wouldn't want to be around.

Most?? EVERYONE!!! Except for me, of course.

[GaryV]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

That convicted engineer is probably not working as an engineer any more, so there'd be nothing to boycott. (I suppose you could say a company not hiring them is boycotting them.) And the engineer probably is no longer benefiting from any residuals from their work like a performer or songwriter does. So it's a little different.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

That convicted engineer is probably not working as an engineer any more, so there'd be nothing to boycott. (I suppose you could say a company not hiring them is boycotting them.) And the engineer probably is no longer benefiting from any residuals from their work like a performer or songwriter does. So it's a little different.

Sure, it's different as @Rothman said. One would have to inconvenience themselves to stand on that high moral ground!

[kphoger]

That convicted engineer is probably not working as an engineer any more, so there'd be nothing to boycott. (I suppose you could say a company not hiring them is boycotting them.) And the engineer probably is no longer benefiting from any residuals from their work like a performer or songwriter does. So it's a little different.

Artists get less than one cent per stream.  If I play one of his standup routines on YouTube, I don't worry about it.  And, of course, if I play it from a cassette tape that I already own, then I can do so all I want without any money at all going to Cosby.

[Bobby5280]

Being a sign designer, this is my favorite Dilbert cartoon:
https://imgur.com/a/4zvBnWC

I've actually been in situations where a customer picked up a sign, such as a double sided yard sign with a directional arrow pointing to the right. The customer says, "the arrow is pointing the wrong way." I flip the sign over to show the other side, showing the left arrow. Derp.

I liked the Dibert comic strip back in its hey-day, but "Calvin and Hobbes" was my favorite comic strip. "Bloom County" was a lot of fun to read during my high school days.

It was really disappointing to see Scott Adams go off the deep end with all the racial crap. Most celebrities have to do a lot of shutting up in order to maintain their public image and keep themselves marketable. The situation also reminds me of the proverb "never meet your heroes." They may turn out to be real assholes.

Creators and artists also have lots of trouble dealing with the fact they will eventually Fall Off and recede into unpopularity or just forgotten, as with 99.99% of all works.

That sounds like something out of the movie "Trainspotting," where the character Sick Boy tells Renton his theory on life (and Sean Connery).

Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Renton: What do you mean?
Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Renton: Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy: No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
Renton: So who else?
Sick Boy: Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...
Renton: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do is help you understand that "The Name of The Rose" is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
Renton: What about "The Untouchables?"
Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
Renton: Despite the Academy Award?
Sick Boy: That means fuck all. Its a sympathy vote.
Renton: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
Sick Boy: Yeah.
Renton: That's your theory?
Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully fucking illustrated.

[kphoger]

Most celebrities have to do a lot of shutting up in order to maintain their public image and keep themselves marketable.

Because we all have bad thoughts and ideas and beliefs.  And, for the most part, we keep those to ourselves because we know they're controversial.  When it comes to the most awful of them, we might voice them at some point, but then the other person points out why they're bad, and there's a good chance we'll learn from that experience and even change our minds.

The problems with fame are that (1) you start to believe your opinions on anything and everything are just as precious and valuable to the world as whatever it was that made you famous, as if your political positions must obviously be just as top-notch as your ability to act in a movie or whatever;  (2) you have a way-outsized ability to share your beliefs with a multitude of people, and often without much format for them to argue with you as equals;  (3) a large number of your fans will believe whatever you say, no matter what it is, which only serves to reinforce your beliefs.

[Rothman]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

That convicted engineer is probably not working as an engineer any more, so there'd be nothing to boycott. (I suppose you could say a company not hiring them is boycotting them.) And the engineer probably is no longer benefiting from any residuals from their work like a performer or songwriter does. So it's a little different.

Sure, it's different as @Rothman said. One would have to inconvenience themselves to stand on that high moral ground!

I'm not financially supporting the engineer by driving across the bridge...

[kphoger]

I'm not financially supporting the engineer by driving across the bridge...

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

[kalvado]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Nope.  If they follow Bill Cosby's steps, they should be criminally charged like he was.

but should we boycott their work?

That convicted engineer is probably not working as an engineer any more, so there'd be nothing to boycott. (I suppose you could say a company not hiring them is boycotting them.) And the engineer probably is no longer benefiting from any residuals from their work like a performer or songwriter does. So it's a little different.

Sure, it's different as @Rothman said. One would have to inconvenience themselves to stand on that high moral ground!

I'm not financially supporting the engineer by driving across the bridge...

You provide moral support by using their work, and it's even more important!

[Rothman]

I'm not financially supporting the engineer by driving across the bridge...

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

Sure you are.  TV and radio run programs that'll bring in commercial revenue to pay for the programs...

[kphoger]

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

Sure you are.  TV and radio run programs that'll bring in commercial revenue to pay for the programs...

That revenue come in whether I watch or listen to the show or not.  My consumption of it doesn't matter one cent.

[Rothman]

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

Sure you are.  TV and radio run programs that'll bring in commercial revenue to pay for the programs...

That revenue come in whether I watch or listen to the show or not.  My consumption of it doesn't matter one cent.

Nope.  It's based upon expected ratings to which your patronage contributes.

[kphoger]

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

Sure you are.  TV and radio run programs that'll bring in commercial revenue to pay for the programs...

That revenue come in whether I watch or listen to the show or not.  My consumption of it doesn't matter one cent.

Nope.  It's based upon expected ratings to which your patronage contributes.

My patronage does not contribute to expected ratings, because they have no idea what programs I am or am not watching or listening to over the air.  That all comes from Nielsen surveys and such, and I don't fill those out.

[kalvado]

I'm not financially supporting an artist by watching a TV show via antenna or listening to a program on the radio either.

Sure you are.  TV and radio run programs that'll bring in commercial revenue to pay for the programs...

That revenue come in whether I watch or listen to the show or not.  My consumption of it doesn't matter one cent.

In other words, your very indirect support by listening audio broadcast is way more important than direct support by using the bridge. Because, you know, it's a little different there!

[Bobby5280]

Because we all have bad thoughts and ideas and beliefs.  And, for the most part, we keep those to ourselves because we know they're controversial.

I think there is quite a spectrum of bad thoughts, ideas and beliefs. People can peacefully disagree on various political issues. But some things, particularly blanket statements/actions which target a group of people based on race or religion can easily go into truly offensive territory.

Scott Adams not only willfully went into offensive territory with his racist remarks. He doubled down on them and let that racism become part of his brand. That gets into that problem about fame you mentioned.

Rich/famous people can grow way out of touch. For starters, they're living a life very much apart from that of ordinary people. Then they'll get surrounded by others who do nothing but kiss their ass. Their grasp of reality gets warped. In that environment it's very easy for a celebrity to start believing his own bullshit. A rich/famous person actually has to put in some deliberate effort to stay grounded.

Going further, every person has their own bias that gets tuned by their lived experience and influence from other people who are in their lives (friends, family, co-workers).

[mgk920]

Bill Cosby was well-liked in his heyday, too.  Just sayin'...

I still enjoy listening to Cosby.  Just sayin'...

I'm the same. I still think "Himself" is funny. I can separate the art from the artist. I don't like Michael Jackson songs any less despite knowing Jackson's personal life. I still think Salvadore Dali paintings are interesting even if he was a bigot and a fascist.

As I mentioned, same with "Dilbert." I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around. I think the issue is if you don't separate the art from the artist, then you're on an endless quest to find some kind of perfect person, who doesn't exist.

As an aside, it kind of reminds me of people who won't buy certain products because they use sweatshop labor or have been involved in something bad in the past. Noble at face value, but the issue here is ANYTHING you do can at some point be traced to something bad, depending how far back you go. Unless you are 100% off the grid and do everything yourself from making your own clothes to growing your own food, trying to live life in such a way you are never listening to controversial artists or wearing clothes that were made in poor working conditions is just going to frustrate you and probably lead to an early death.

Wouldn't help if you live in US on a land stollen from native tribes subjected to genocide.

That the tribes continually invaded and stole from earlier tribal owners since the last Ice Age?

Mike

[hbelkins]

People are a mixture of good things and awful things.  I try not to judge them just by one or the other.  I understand Picasso was abusive to all of his wives.

Sure, but should probably end up judging them one way or another in the end rather than not at all...

You can judge their work separately. Would you drive on a bridge knowing that designer was a great engineer, but a monster at home?

Entertainment is optional.  Transportation, less so.

Are you saying engineers get a pass on whatever they might do out of office?

Leave Robert Moses out of this.

[Quillz]

I can appreciate the comic and find it funny, even if Adams is not someone I'd ever want to be around.

If we gave most anybody a platform and a microphone to just say whatever the heck they think for everyone in the nation to hear, then...  Well, I imagine we'd probably consider most people to be someone we wouldn't want to be around.

This already happens with social media. Everyone can have their take on Facebook, Twitter, etc.

"The great thing about democracy is everyone has a voice. The bad thing about democracy is everyone has a voice."

[Quillz]

That the tribes continually invaded and stole from earlier tribal owners since the last Ice Age?

Mike

Indeed, oft forgotten is natives were like anyone one else, they would war with one another over land disputes. Such is humanity. War is the one constant we've observed in every society for as long as historical records exist.