Got pulled over for going 7 MPH over.

[TXtoNJ]

7 over is indeed blatantly breaking the law

Depends on the jurisdiction. In prima facie states, it explicitly is not.

You are explicitly not understanding what prima facie means.  And it's certainly not a numeric number of the miles per hour you're allowed to go over a signed limit.

In states with prima facie speed laws, such as Texas, laws are written such as "all speed limits are considered 'prima facie' limits. Prima facie limits are those limits which on the face of it, are reasonable and prudent under normal conditions."

Note "Normal Conditions".  What Prima Facie is referencing is that the limit is what one should be driving at or under when conditions are proper for such driving.  What it means is when there's a rainstorm or snowstorm and someone is driving 75 in a 75, a cop has the right to pull them over for driving an unsafe speed or cite "unsafe speed" in a police report after the person was in a crash.  The cop can't write a ticket for X over the limit because he/she can't make up a temporary limit on the spot.  They can use an all-encompassing "unsafe speed" or "careless driving" statute to write a ticket though.

Does the "prima facie" definition translate to allowing motorists to drive above the limit without penalty?  While the NMA and the Internet will like you to think that, it's not necessarily true.  Let's say, again, in Texas, you were stopped and ticketed for doing 82 in a 75. A cop has the absolute authority to write that ticket. You would then need to go to court and convince the judge that Texas law and engineering practices were incorrect and that doing 82 was a safe and prudent speed at the time.  If you were on a highway with great sightlines and light traffic, maybe the judge will grant you your argument. If you were doing 82 and zipping around heavy traffic, you probably aren't going to win your argument.  You may also want to bring documentation, pictures, etc to support your position.

Texas' Administrative Code on Prima Facia Speed Limits (And again, note, nowhere does it say driving faster than the limit at X mph is Prima Facia permitted):

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=43&pt=1&ch=25&rl=21

Sorry for the necrobump, but you're confusing "permitted" with "legal" here. Prima facie just means you can present evidence that the law was not broken and have the case dismissed pre trial. Per se means you have to come up with affirmative defenses during the trial phase while admitting that the law was broken. Both are tough to defend if the officer shows up, unless you can impeach their evidence.

[Quillz]

Meh.  Getting pulled over for single digits was a lot more common in the 1900s.  Interesting that it still happens from time-to-time.

Used to happen all the time on the way to Mammoth because the Inyo County police know people traveling from SoCal aren't going to drive all the way back to fight the ticket. My dad got pulled over for being 4 (!) over the speed limit. And yes, it's justifiable because he was speeding.

[Quillz]

On the Indian reservation in northwest Washington, where Cape Flattery is, I got pulled over for doing 30 in a 25 zone. But I only got a warning because the officer thanked me for buying one of those medallions you are supposed to get when doing business there. Implying that a lot of people don't buy it. It also helped that while I was being pulled over, another guy zoomed by him going a good 10-20 over. He was PISSED, told me to just watch my speed, and then took off after that other guy.

[Quillz]

If anything this thread proves there is probably too much analysis of speed limits in general.  If you don't drive like a dickhead then you probably aren't getting pulled over often.

It pretty much comes down to this. I generally go 5 mph over the speed limit, no more. (I set my cruise control to this). I've done this with cops tailing me and none have ever pulled me over because I'm otherwise not doing anything reckless.

I've been pulled over twice in all the years I've been driving. I mentioned the first time. The second time was after I had worked a 12-hour shift, I briefly cut into the other lane about two minutes away from my house. The cop behind me (with no lights on) did an informal drug test because they thought I was high. I wasn't, I was just tired. They said I passed and to just go home, which I was already doing.

[Beltway]

I typically go 70 in a 55 on the I-495 Capital Beltway, which is about the average speed. Never gotten stopped in either state, and the number of visible traffic stops is vanishingly small. With all that traffic I surmise it is too much of a disruption to enforce that.

Basically, don't do anything else wrong and they won't bother you.

[Scott5114]

buying one of those medallions you are supposed to get when doing business there.

?

[Quillz]

buying one of those medallions you are supposed to get when doing business there.

?

The one I visited sold little tokens you put on your rear view mirror. Like inside the restaurants, I think they were $10. There was a sign when you entered about them being required to purchase when visiting, although obviously it wasn't really enforced unless you get pulled over.

[Scott5114]

buying one of those medallions you are supposed to get when doing business there.

?

The one I visited sold little tokens you put on your rear view mirror. Like inside the restaurants, I think they were $10. There was a sign when you entered about them being required to purchase when visiting, although obviously it wasn't really enforced unless you get pulled over.

Is it perhaps a recreation permit?

[1995hoo]

I typically go 70 in a 55 on the I-495 Capital Beltway, which is about the average speed. Never gotten stopped in either state, and the number of visible traffic stops is vanishingly small. With all that traffic I surmise it is too much of a disruption to enforce that.

Basically, don't do anything else wrong and they won't bother you.

I largely view it as, "don't do anything to stand out in a bad way." It seems like the people who get pulled over are either the ones who feel the need to call attention to themselves, say by whipping in and out across all four lanes of traffic because they're determined to go faster, or the ones who are just plain complete dumbasses. My favorite example of the latter was when I saw a marked Fairfax County police car—one of the old Crown Vic model that was utterly obvious even at a great distance—cruising on the Outer Loop ahead of me at about 65 mph near I-66 and some utter moron came along and flew past the cop at 70+. He was immediately pulled over. Passing a cop in that situation is just plain stupid.

With all that said, I generally try to keep it to 65 in the mainline and 70 in the HO/T lanes. I figure I won't stand out in either circumstance. I could probably go faster, but most of my driving on the Beltway is local driving such that it wouldn't make much difference either way (e.g., if I take the Beltway to go over to my mother's house, it's eight miles on the actual highway; while I haven't done the math to figure out the time difference between going 65 and going 70, it would obviously be insignificant).

[Beltway]

I largely view it as, "don't do anything to stand out in a bad way." It seems like the people who get pulled over are either the ones who feel the need to call attention to themselves, say by whipping in and out across all four lanes of traffic because they're determined to go faster, or the ones who are just plain complete dumbasses. My favorite example of the latter was when I saw a marked Fairfax County police car—one of the old Crown Vic model that was utterly obvious even at a great distance—cruising on the Outer Loop ahead of me at about 65 mph near I-66 and some utter moron came along and flew past the cop at 70+. He was immediately pulled over. Passing a cop in that situation is just plain stupid.

I would avoid passing a marked police car. And things that signify lack of attention like not staying centered in the lane, and not speeding up and slowing down by 10+ mph over and over like some do. Set the cruise control and go grey.

Mine is not short trips but bypassing to major Maryland routes like I-270, US-50 and I-95.

[1995hoo]

Right, I know you're not from the immediate DC area and if I were making a longer drive I would likely also feel the desire to go faster to make better time in the context of my overall trip. My comment was more intended to reflect why I personally just don't bother going faster anymore.

[webny99]

I would avoid passing a marked police car.

Usually, but not always. If they are going at or below the speed limit on a multilane freeway, there's no reason they should dictate traffic flow. Refusing to pass in that situation is sanctimonious not to mention peak cognitive dissonance.

[kphoger]

I once passed a police car on a two-lane highway, when the officer was going the speed limit and I was going 5-7 over.  In a company box truck.  Speed limit was 55, I was going 60-62.  Probably a dumb move, but I didn't get pulled over.   This was on IL-14, west of Carmi, not too far before the US-45 junction.

In northern Mexico, I was once on an arrow-straight two-lane highway in the desert, going about 105 km/h when the speed limit was 80 km/h, as the lead vehicle in a caravan of two.  A police officer (the federales!) zoomed up to our tail, then tailgated us for a few miles.  Never slowed down, kept going a steady 25 km/h over.  He kept tailgating us but never turning his lights on and never passing us.  Eventually, he pulled off the highway.  Totally freaked out our other driver, who had never driven in Mexico before.

On the other hand, I was once micro-passing an officer on US-412 heading west out of Tulsa.  The speed limit was 65, he was going exactly 65 in the left lane, and I was micro-passing at about 66 in the right lane.  Just after I cleared passing him, he sped up to be even with me, looked at me, and pointed to his radar gun.  I backed off.  A mile or two later, he sped up really fast and shot over two lanes in front of me to exit the highway.

[webny99]

I once passed a police car on a two-lane highway, when the officer was going the speed limit and I was going 5-7 over.  In a company box truck.  Speed limit was 55, I was going 60-62. Probably a dumb move, but I didn't get pulled over.

Not a dumb move. To the contrary, steadfast and resilient.

On the other hand, I was once micro-passing an officer on US-412 heading west out of Tulsa.  The speed limit was 65, he was going exactly 65 in the left lane, and I was micro-passing at about 66 in the right lane.  Just after I cleared passing him, he sped up to be even with me, looked at me, and pointed to his radar gun. 

Ugh. Just reading that makes my blood boil. What was giving you a ticket for speeding 1 mph over the limit going to prove, anyways? What a despicable waste of time when there are real pressing problems to deal with.

[michravera]

7 over is indeed blatantly breaking the law

Depends on the jurisdiction. In prima facie states, it explicitly is not.

In PF states (with a higher maximum), 7 MPH over the posted limit *MIGHT* be illegal. 7 MPH over the state maximum is PROBABLY breaking the law. It also depends upon whether the penalty is deemed "civil" or "criminal". In California, Vehicle Code violations are criminal and, therefore, require intent, which is difficult to prove in "round off" cases. "52 in a 45" might not even be illegal or might be "grossly illegal"; it depends. The 45 MPH limit is PF. It's designed to be the best estimate of the highest legal speed under 'good' (not 'ideal') conditions. "77 in a 70" is illegal and, if the state can reasonably prove that you knew that you were doing 77, you'd be guilty. 70 MPH is the state maximum. This isn't' legal advice! ... and even if it were, the laws in your state may well be different!

[Quillz]

buying one of those medallions you are supposed to get when doing business there.

?

The one I visited sold little tokens you put on your rear view mirror. Like inside the restaurants, I think they were $10. There was a sign when you entered about them being required to purchase when visiting, although obviously it wasn't really enforced unless you get pulled over.

Is it perhaps a recreation permit?

Yeah. When I went it was $10 and a circular thing.

[Beltway]

I would avoid passing a marked police car.

Usually, but not always. If they are going at or below the speed limit on a multilane freeway, there's no reason they should dictate traffic flow. Refusing to pass in that situation is sanctimonious not to mention peak cognitive dissonance.

Well yes indeed that is what I was thinking. Let's say if they going no less than 5 mph over that I would be reluctant.

[Scott5114]

I would avoid passing a marked police car.

Usually, but not always. If they are going at or below the speed limit on a multilane freeway, there's no reason they should dictate traffic flow. Refusing to pass in that situation is sanctimonious not to mention peak cognitive dissonance.

Well yes indeed that is what I was thinking. Let's say if they going no less than 5 mph over that I would be reluctant.

My understanding is that many police departments direct their officers to always drive a considerable amount either under or over the speed limit so that it is clear to other motorists that they should not be expected to keep pace with the officer.

[kphoger]

My understanding is that many police departments direct their officers to always drive a considerable amount either under or over the speed limit so that it is clear to other motorists that they should not be expected to keep pace with the officer.

If a cop is speeding without his lights or siren on, then I'll gladly drive behind him at the same speed he's going.

[jeffandnicole]

I would avoid passing a marked police car.

Usually, but not always. If they are going at or below the speed limit on a multilane freeway, there's no reason they should dictate traffic flow. Refusing to pass in that situation is sanctimonious not to mention peak cognitive dissonance.

Well yes indeed that is what I was thinking. Let's say if they going no less than 5 mph over that I would be reluctant.

I've passed officers and state troopers several times on my commute to work. They are often also commuting to work, and if they're in the right lane chances are they're just in line to get off at the next exit.  They're not worried about traffic passing them. 

[bugo]

Oklahoma has some bad speed traps too.

Heavener, Panama and Pocola and Tryon are just four of the dozens of speed traps in the state.

[Rothman]

Oklahoma has some bad speed traps too.

Heavener, Panama and Pocola and Tryon are just four of the dozens of speed traps in the state.

Tryon?  How many people go through there and get pulled over a year?  12?

[bugo]

Oklahoma has some bad speed traps too.

Heavener, Panama and Pocola and Tryon are just four of the dozens of speed traps in the state.

Tryon?  How many people go through there and get pulled over a year?  12?

I was in a car with a driver who got a speeding ticket there.

[kphoger]

I was in a car with a driver who got a speeding ticket there.

Is that the whole reason you call it a speed trap?  Or do other people say it's a speed trap too, and your driver just decided to ignore the common knowledge?

[JayhawkCO]

I was in a car with a driver who got a speeding ticket there.

Is that the whole reason you call it a speed trap?  Or do other people say it's a speed trap too, and your driver just decided to ignore the common knowledge?

Based on some quick googling, looks like bugo might be accurate: