I-85 in North Carolina

[wdcrft63]

Three years ago I started the I-40 in North Carolina thread, and it has seen a lot of use. Now I'm seeing discussion of I-85's serious problems in the Triangle area — on the Charlotte thread. Let's have a home for I-85 throughout the state.

[architect77]

OK I'll go first. It's impressive that out of the 233 miles that I-85 extends through NC that about 170 miles are 6-8 lanes wide and somewhat resemble a freeway in a large metro area for hours and hours.

I used to love the I-85/I-40 duplex and I suffered through the decade it took to build it in the 1990s.

However today I love driving Northbound on I-85 from Charlotte to Greensboro. I think the elegant inclines and declines and exits all create one of the nicest interstate stretches in the US and along the East Coast. I love asking what others think of it from Atlanta when they make road trips to the Northeast.

I-85 is North Carolina's main artery for its citizens to make local trips throughout central NC. It also is the most impressive stretch of the US's up and coming new megaregion from Raleigh to Atlanta.

Although i must say that Georgia is now on top of their game when it comes to rebuilding big freeways and I-85 in Georgia is now awesome and commands respect also.

Raleigh-Charlotte-Atlanta = Southeast cities in Small-Medium-Large.

[AlmaPinnix]

OK I'll go first. It's impressive that out of the 233 miles that I-85 extends through NC that about 170 miles are 6-8 lanes wide and somewhat resemble a freeway in a large metro area for hours and hours.

I used to love the I-85/I-40 duplex and I suffered through the decade it took to build it in the 1990s.

However today I love driving Northbound on I-85 from Charlotte to Greensboro. I think the elegant inclines and declines and exits all create one of the nicest interstate stretches in the US and along the East Coast. I love asking what others think of it from Atlanta when they make road trips to the Northeast.

I-85 is North Carolina's main artery for its citizens to make local trips throughout central NC. It also is the most impressive stretch of the US's up and coming new megaregion from Raleigh to Atlanta.

Although i must say that Georgia is now on top of their game when it comes to rebuilding big freeways and I-85 in Georgia is now awesome and commands respect also.

Raleigh-Charlotte-Atlanta = Southeast cities in Small-Medium-Large.

Except I-85 doesn't touch Raleigh.

Atlanta -> Charlotte -> Greensboro
Especially when it comes to the 3 cities demographics, culture, and industry. Greensboro is much more like Charlotte and Atlanta in those regards, and they all 3 share the same Interstate 85.

[fillup420]

Excellent. now i have a proper place to continue complaining about the 5-to-2 bottleneck at the Durham/Orange county line.

Orange county has really neglected its portion of 85. narrow lanes, and only 4. low bridge at NC 86 that a truck hit 3 years ago. super short entrance ramps at exits 164 and 165. pavement quality has noticeably declined in the last 6 years that i have regularly driven it.

On top of all that, there is 10 miles of crappy 4-lane in between 6+ lanes in Durham and 8 lanes at I-40.

On the other hand, i agree with the above that the section between Charlotte and Greensboro is absolutely wonderful to drive.

[architect77]

Excellent. now i have a proper place to continue complaining about the 5-to-2 bottleneck at the Durham/Orange county line.

Orange county has really neglected its portion of 85. narrow lanes, and only 4. low bridge at NC 86 that a truck hit 3 years ago. super short entrance ramps at exits 164 and 165. pavement quality has noticeably declined in the last 6 years that i have regularly driven it.

On top of all that, there is 10 miles of crappy 4-lane in between 6+ lanes in Durham and 8 lanes at I-40.

On the other hand, i agree with the above that the section between Charlotte and Greensboro is absolutely wonderful to drive.

Is it 10 miles or 8?

I mentioned this in the Charlotte thread as posters wanted to know when the last 10 miles at the SC line would be widened. My response was that states often put the last stretch at the state lines at a lower priority and that I thought this 4 lane anomaly between Durham and the 40/85 duplex should be rebuilt before the Kings Mountain section.

Someone started posting traffic volume comparisons to downplay the need for this Orange Co. bottleneck but I think it's urgent.

The I-40 section near Chapel Hill is being widened now so that will be better soon.

[architect77]

OK I'll go first. It's impressive that out of the 233 miles that I-85 extends through NC that about 170 miles are 6-8 lanes wide and somewhat resemble a freeway in a large metro area for hours and hours.

I used to love the I-85/I-40 duplex and I suffered through the decade it took to build it in the 1990s.

However today I love driving Northbound on I-85 from Charlotte to Greensboro. I think the elegant inclines and declines and exits all create one of the nicest interstate stretches in the US and along the East Coast. I love asking what others think of it from Atlanta when they make road trips to the Northeast.

I-85 is North Carolina's main artery for its citizens to make local trips throughout central NC. It also is the most impressive stretch of the US's up and coming new megaregion from Raleigh to Atlanta.

Although i must say that Georgia is now on top of their game when it comes to rebuilding big freeways and I-85 in Georgia is now awesome and commands respect also.

Raleigh-Charlotte-Atlanta = Southeast cities in Small-Medium-Large.

Except I-85 doesn't touch Raleigh.

Atlanta -> Charlotte -> Greensboro
Especially when it comes to the 3 cities demographics, culture, and industry. Greensboro is much more like Charlotte and Atlanta in those regards, and they all 3 share the same Interstate 85.

Ok you can have that regarding city size, but I don't think Greensboro is more like Atlanta than Raleigh is. You might mean it as a compliment to Raleigh, not sure.

But I will agree that Greensboro and Charlotte have more in common with one another than Raleigh has with the Western Piedmont or Western NC in general.

[jdunlop]

Excellent. now i have a proper place to continue complaining about the 5-to-2 bottleneck at the Durham/Orange county line.

Orange county has really neglected its portion of 85. narrow lanes, and only 4. low bridge at NC 86 that a truck hit 3 years ago. super short entrance ramps at exits 164 and 165. pavement quality has noticeably declined in the last 6 years that i have regularly driven it.

On top of all that, there is 10 miles of crappy 4-lane in between 6+ lanes in Durham and 8 lanes at I-40.

On the other hand, i agree with the above that the section between Charlotte and Greensboro is absolutely wonderful to drive.

Is it 10 miles or 8?

I mentioned this in the Charlotte thread as posters wanted to know when the last 10 miles at the SC line would be widened. My response was that states often put the last stretch at the state lines at a lower priority and that I thought this 4 lane anomaly between Durham and the 40/85 duplex should be rebuilt before the Kings Mountain section.

Someone started posting traffic volume comparisons to downplay the need for this Orange Co. bottleneck but I think it's urgent.

The I-40 section near Chapel Hill is being widened now so that will be better soon.

The volumes were posted not to downplay future needs, but to provide information and to prioritize them.  Of the (approximately) 10 miles of four-lane I-85 in Orange County, the northern two miles, from the Durham line to US 70 has about 65K AADT.  It drops to about 55K south of US 70 over to the I-40 merge.  The section in Durham north of exit 178 (I-885) is about 69K, dropping to 53K over Falls Lake.  The southernmost 10 miles in NC 'has a volume around 45K.

Of these sections, I'd expect the northern Durham section has the highest growth rate due to the opening of I-885 in 2022.  (Volumes quoted are mostly 2023 AADT.).  However, I do think the DCHC MPO (now called Triangle West TPO) is prioritizing the Orange County two miles from 147 to 70 above the section from 885 to about Glenn School Road.  And both above the rest of the Orange County section, (not that I'd expect them to prioritize either over ped/bike projects.)  On the other end, I'd expect the Gaston County MPO is prioritizing the section from US 321 to US 74 higher than the last ten miles to the SC line. 

From what I know about the SPOT process, I think if all were submitted as projects, the prioritizing order (for Statewide tier) would be about the same, with the SC line project behind the other three (two if you combine the two Orange County sections.)

[Dirt Roads]

Another issue along I-85 in Orange County is the condition of its 1950's-era overpass bridges.  There are ten (10) of these narrow bridge underpasses in this stretch, many located in areas of frequent accidents.  Due to heavy traffic conditions, it is becoming increasingly difficult to reconstruct the concrete guardrail structure when destroyed by collision. 

This bridge along the "southbound" lanes over Orange Grove Road has needed guardrail sections replaced at least 4 times in the past 10 years and is currently missing almost the entire farthest half of the railing from the most recent accident (making 5 times in 10 years).  (In this image, you can see six sections has been replaced, and the closest two sections in serious need of replacement as of the image date of April 2024).  It appears that NCDOT has given up and has installed a temporary steel guardrail with a unique tubular funnelpost design.  The "northbound" bridge over US-70 at Exit 170 experiences at least one major accident during morning rush hour every month, and was in worse shape than the other one.

In comparison, here is a comparable structure in the Gaston County stretch.  I might have forgotten something, but I believe that these bridges over NC-216 at Exit 2 (plus this ancient US-29 northbound flyover merge) are the only ones between the South Carolina line and the US-74 merge.

[Strider]

Another issue along I-85 in Orange County is the condition of its 1950's-era overpass bridges.  There are ten (10) of these narrow bridge underpasses in this stretch, many located in areas of frequent accidents.  Due to heavy traffic conditions, it is becoming increasingly difficult to reconstruct the concrete guardrail structure when destroyed by collision. 

This bridge along the "southbound" lanes over Orange Grove Road has needed guardrail sections replaced at least 4 times in the past 10 years and is currently missing almost the entire farthest half of the railing from the most recent accident (making 5 times in 10 years).  (In this image, you can see six sections has been replaced, and the closest two sections in serious need of replacement as of the image date of April 2024).  It appears that NCDOT has given up and has installed a temporary steel guardrail with a unique tubular funnelpost design.  The "northbound" bridge over US-70 at Exit 170 experiences at least one major accident during morning rush hour every month, and was in worse shape than the other one.

In comparison, here is a comparable structure in the Gaston County stretch.  I might have forgotten something, but I believe that these bridges over NC-216 at Exit 2 (plus this ancient US-29 northbound flyover merge) are the only ones between the South Carolina line and the US-74 merge.

Both of these sections of I-85 will eventually get widened with all bridges along both sections will be replaced anyway, so it will not stay 4 lanes for long.

[jdunlop]

While I believe the overall Orange County corridor improvement project is still active for prioritization (if not funded or scheduled) the MPO is submitting one interchange project, the NC 86 one (speaking of bad bridges.).


The NC 216 bridges in Cleveland County are the same era as the Orange County Orange Grove Road ones (1958/1957) but their sufficiency ratings are considerably higher.

[architect77]

Over thanksgiving weekend I noticed that 75% of the highway lights from Mebane to Greensboro were not working, so I submit a request to NCDOT and I emailed the towns along the way. Most responded saying they had already sent requests.

Hopefully they can come up with a permanent solution like using aluminum wire or something to stop the copper wire from being pulled.

I hate the type of criminal who causes so much harm to thousands of people for months if not years in addition to great expense to repair all over a few bucks to benefit them for a couple of days.

[Plutonic Panda]

It seems like this could be an easy fix if they would target the recyclers.

[architect77]

It seems like this could be an easy fix if they would target the recyclers.

Those people running scrap yards probably would avert the rules. And how far away do you try to enforce a ban on this stolen copper? Catalytic converters and air conditioning condenser units are being stripped nationwide.

I wish they could add a colored alloy or something to wire specifically for this purpose to identify it. Aluminum supposedly isn't as ideal but if it works for highway lighting i say use it.

[Thing 342]

Over thanksgiving weekend I noticed that 75% of the highway lights from Mebane to Greensboro were not working, so I submit a request to NCDOT and I emailed the towns along the way. Most responded saying they had already sent requests.

Hopefully they can come up with a permanent solution like using aluminum wire or something to stop the copper wire from being pulled.

I hate the type of criminal who causes so much harm to thousands of people for months if not years in addition to great expense to repair all over a few bucks to benefit them for a couple of days.

NC seems to have a consistent problem keeping highway lights lit, last time I drove NC 540, I noticed that almost half of the mast lights had become blue-violet due to the phosphor layer failing prematurely.

[architect77]

Over thanksgiving weekend I noticed that 75% of the highway lights from Mebane to Greensboro were not working, so I submit a request to NCDOT and I emailed the towns along the way. Most responded saying they had already sent requests.

Hopefully they can come up with a permanent solution like using aluminum wire or something to stop the copper wire from being pulled.

I hate the type of criminal who causes so much harm to thousands of people for months if not years in addition to great expense to repair all over a few bucks to benefit them for a couple of days.

NC seems to have a consistent problem keeping highway lights lit, last time I drove NC 540, I noticed that almost half of the mast lights had become blue-violet due to the phosphor layer failing prematurely.

So that is what is happening now since you understand all of that. A couple of years ago they appeared to have installed some defective lights that were also purple in color but I thought they were scheduled to be replaced.

Charlotte's I-85 lights are all working and look good.

[Finrod]

I've been driving to eastern NC from Atlanta for Christmas since 2001 so I've seen things change on the I-85 corridor.  It was nice when I-85 was redirected around Greensboro, going through Death Valley there was somewhat harrowing early on.  I saw I-73 and I-74 start popping up not long after that, I-85 intersects both near Greensboro.  The I-85 redo on the northeast side of Charlotte was very welcome when it finally was finished, that one took years.  Nowadays the most harrowing part is I-85 west of Charlotte, I hear that one's on the redo list.

[architect77]

I've been driving to eastern NC from Atlanta for Christmas since 2001 so I've seen things change on the I-85 corridor.  It was nice when I-85 was redirected around Greensboro, going through Death Valley there was somewhat harrowing early on.  I saw I-73 and I-74 start popping up not long after that, I-85 intersects both near Greensboro.  The I-85 redo on the northeast side of Charlotte was very welcome when it finally was finished, that one took years.  Nowadays the most harrowing part is I-85 west of Charlotte, I hear that one's on the redo list.

I also have done the drive to Atlanta since the early 1990s. I remember when I-85 from Charlotte to the SC line was rebuilt from 4-6 lanes, like wise in SC from Greenville to Anderson. All of it was just 4 lanes when I started coming to Atlanta in 1989.

A additional lane will be added to I-85 from Charlotte through Gastonia. The first section is supposed to be starting now, and the remaining section will require 2 new overpasses for train tracks to be built. As with I-885 in Durham it took forever for the railroad companies to get their part completed for I-885 to open (about 1.5 miles in length).

I don't know about the final 10 miles of the 4 lane stretch from Kings Mountain to the SC line, but there are a few remaining short stretches of I-85 in NC that are still just 4 lanes. Maybe the Kings Mountain section will be the first to be widened, but don't think that NC will extend the 8 lanes to the SC line, likely only to where the 3rd lane drops off now.

[Beltway]

The finally fixed the pavement disaster between Henderson and the state line. That was horrendously worn for over 20 years.

[bob7374]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

[Dirt Roads]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  Hopefully, an advance APL will improve traffic at the split.  Even with two diagrammatic signs spaced about one mile and two miles from the split, there are way too many cars heading for I-40 that get confused.  One last week got turned sideways trying to cut from the I-85 side to the I-40 side (which was terrible for that poor lady, since this section is still under construction).

[architect77]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  Hopefully, an advance APL will improve traffic at the split.  Even with two diagrammatic signs spaced about one mile and two miles from the split, there are way too many cars heading for I-40 that get confused.  One last week got turned sideways trying to cut from the I-85 side to the I-40 side (which was terrible for that poor lady, since this section is still under construction).

I used to be so impressed with the 85/40 duplex through this area. It took a long time to build but was done well and looked like you were in a large metro area when you actually weren't.

Now, compared to I-85 North of Charlotte through Salisbury which is near perfection in it's width and execution, the 85/40 duplex section feels not wide enough, not really relaxing to drive along, and the pavement is really in bad condition.

I stopped at the Bucees construction site at Trollingwood Rd. and they are doing all kinds of interchange improvments. The actual Bucees building isn't up yet, I guess with 120 gas pumps there are a lot of underground storage tanks to install first.

[AlmaPinnix]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  Hopefully, an advance APL will improve traffic at the split.  Even with two diagrammatic signs spaced about one mile and two miles from the split, there are way too many cars heading for I-40 that get confused.  One last week got turned sideways trying to cut from the I-85 side to the I-40 side (which was terrible for that poor lady, since this section is still under construction).

I used to be so impressed with the 85/40 duplex through this area. It took a long time to build but was done well and looked like you were in a large metro area when you actually weren't.

Now, compared to I-85 North of Charlotte through Salisbury which is near perfection in it's width and execution, the 85/40 duplex section feels not wide enough, not really relaxing to drive along, and the pavement is really in bad condition.

Yeah, because both stretches of interstate are 8 lanes total. Of course, the main difference is one stretch is two interstates in one and is going through part of the Carolina Core. Honestly, that whole stretch should be 12 total lanes, much like the 40/421 section in West Greensboro.

[architect77]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  Hopefully, an advance APL will improve traffic at the split.  Even with two diagrammatic signs spaced about one mile and two miles from the split, there are way too many cars heading for I-40 that get confused.  One last week got turned sideways trying to cut from the I-85 side to the I-40 side (which was terrible for that poor lady, since this section is still under construction).

I used to be so impressed with the 85/40 duplex through this area. It took a long time to build but was done well and looked like you were in a large metro area when you actually weren't.

Now, compared to I-85 North of Charlotte through Salisbury which is near perfection in it's width and execution, the 85/40 duplex section feels not wide enough, not really relaxing to drive along, and the pavement is really in bad condition.

Yeah, because both stretches of interstate are 8 lanes total. Of course, the main difference is one stretch is two interstates in one and is going through part of the Carolina Core. Honestly, that whole stretch should be 12 total lanes, much like the 40/421 section in West Greensboro.

It won't happen for extended lengths because NCDOT believes after 4 continuous lanes, any additional suffer from less efficiency and diminishing returns vs. costs.

But I agree that the 85/40 is not pleasurable driving due to the volume of traffic, the extreme crowning of the pavement, and seemingly less shoulder widths.

[Dirt Roads]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  <snipped>

This APL lane closure affects the leftmost lane of [eastbound] I-85/I-40 covering both of the existing diagrammatic BGSs (and keeps the left lane closed between the two).  It's been in effect since early last week.  Looking backwards, I'm not so sure that the temporary right lane closures (just east of the Buckhorn weigh station) has anything to do with this closure,  but it sure would be nice for folks to have more notice than the current gantries spaced at "two miles ahead" and "one mile ahead".  As discussed upthread, there are way too many Raleigh travellers that get surprised right at the split.

On a side note, I can imagine that the location of this closure is quite painful during the morning rush towards Raleigh/Durham (or should I correctly say Durham -and- Raleigh, in the proper order of those control cities.  Just wondering if the rush hour pain would be easier in [westbound] lanes, since I-85 [westbound] is still narrowed to two lanes in the entire approach to the merge area.  The resultant 2+2=3 merge would be much safer than the normal 3+2=3 merge during other lane closures in this stretch.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Looks like they're closing down the far left lane of I-85 South/I-40 West in Orange County for a month and a half so that they can install a new overhead APL in the other direction for the I-85/I-40 split when the I-40 widening project is complete:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-03-17-orange-lane-closure-85-40.aspx

That explains a few things.  On Tuesday last week, there was a temporary right lane closure on I-85/I-40 [eastbound] between Efland (Exit 160) and Buckhorn (Exit 157) after 9PM.  Then on Wednesday early in the evening, NCDOT was staging cones in the same area in the [westbound] direction.  Hopefully, an advance APL will improve traffic at the split.  Even with two diagrammatic signs spaced about one mile and two miles from the split, there are way too many cars heading for I-40 that get confused.  One last week got turned sideways trying to cut from the I-85 side to the I-40 side (which was terrible for that poor lady, since this section is still under construction).

I used to be so impressed with the 85/40 duplex through this area. It took a long time to build but was done well and looked like you were in a large metro area when you actually weren't.

Now, compared to I-85 North of Charlotte through Salisbury which is near perfection in it's width and execution, the 85/40 duplex section feels not wide enough, not really relaxing to drive along, and the pavement is really in bad condition.

Yeah, because both stretches of interstate are 8 lanes total. Of course, the main difference is one stretch is two interstates in one and is going through part of the Carolina Core. Honestly, that whole stretch should be 12 total lanes, much like the 40/421 section in West Greensboro.

It won't happen for extended lengths because NCDOT believes after 4 continuous lanes, any additional suffer from less efficiency and diminishing returns vs. costs.

But I agree that the 85/40 is not pleasurable driving due to the volume of traffic, the extreme crowning of the pavement, and seemingly less shoulder widths.

This is probably wayyyy off crazy, but could it be cheaper to upgrade us 64 from I85 to Apex than widen the existing facility.