Eternal Green Lights

SkyPesos · April 06, 2026, 10:43:43 PM

A few in the St Louis area:
- Murdoch Ave at I-44 WB ramp
- Berry Rd at I-44 EB ramp
- MO 141 NB at US 40 WB ramp
- MO 141 SB at MO 364 EB ramp
- Chesterfield Pkwy at US 40 EB frontage road

Some removed examples:
- Delmar Blvd at I-170 NB ramp. Replaced with a normal signal when the pedestrian crossing was added
- Jefferson Ave at US 40 WB ramp. Removed when the other half of the diamond interchange was completed
- 5th St at I-70 WB. Removed when signals for the ramp coming off I-70 WB was added, before the entire interchange was converted to a DDI.

The_Ginger · April 07, 2026, 07:45:36 PM

Here's one on US-60 southeast of Charleston:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4ishZcrSLJ4vG9hY9

Revive 755 · April 07, 2026, 09:31:59 PM

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 06, 2026, 10:43:43 PMA few in the St Louis area:
- Murdoch Ave at I-44 WB ramp
- Berry Rd at I-44 EB ramp
- MO 141 NB at US 40 WB ramp
- MO 141 SB at MO 364 EB ramp
- Chesterfield Pkwy at US 40 EB frontage road

Also:

RobbieL2415 · April 08, 2026, 01:20:28 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2026, 10:37:14 AMHow common is it in the USA for the through movement to just not have any signal at all?

Something like these examples from Mexico:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nko72CRxr9EtknP18
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vi1FZ3x1RAgu5iMb6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WAZeGK479HszhDsU6

Framingham, MA (the EB signal is for a crosswalk, its a MassDOT thing)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2988268,-71.3940228,3a,55.8y,91.38h,94.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFFbjHjGrtZXCnuuommJWYQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-4.096933786261289%26panoid%3DFFbjHjGrtZXCnuuommJWYQ%26yaw%3D91.38207656314755!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQwNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

fwydriver405 · April 08, 2026, 01:50:23 PM

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 08, 2026, 01:20:28 PMFramingham, MA (the EB signal is for a crosswalk, its a MassDOT thing)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2988268,-71.3940228,3a,55.8y,91.38h,94.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFFbjHjGrtZXCnuuommJWYQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-4.096933786261289%26panoid%3DFFbjHjGrtZXCnuuommJWYQ%26yaw%3D91.38207656314755!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQwNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I was initially hesitant (leaning towards DQ'ing) to count this Long Beach example (GSV, YouTube) due to the fact the EB thru movement is signalised (but only for the crosswalk) on possibly the same controller as the intersection (but on a different phase), not sure if we're counting pedestrian crosswalks here. The only EB conflicts for the Long Beach one is the pedestrians, Ximeno Ave SB must turn right at Livington.

jakeroot · April 08, 2026, 02:39:56 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2026, 10:37:14 AMHow common is it in the USA for the through movement to just not have any signal at all?

I think it might be just as common in Washington for there to be no through signal.

Example in Renton: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cxpb9Kb1HAbcJWnj9 --

More examples with no through signal:

Benson Drive at I-405, Renton: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RFcitGCZR7pNznUu6

Edit: actually, maybe they're not as common as I thought. I remembered a couple examples right away but I'm drawing a blank as to where more might be. Especially any with an additional left-side merge.

I do remember this example in Colorado Springs with a dual permissive left (FYA displays) and no through signal: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ng1vw1nrvmo7MaQL8

SkyPesos · April 09, 2026, 01:29:28 PM

Quote from: Revive 755 on April 07, 2026, 09:31:59 PM
NB Carondelet at the SB I-55 entrance ramp (complete with a non-standard shared head for the left+thru lane)
SB Germania at the NB I-55 entrance ramp (also with a non-standard shared head)

Do the non-standard shared heads have an eternal green ball for the through direction, and the two spaces below it are for the left turn arrows? First time seeing them.

Looks like there used to be one at Kingshighway and I-44 WB ramp as well, before it got replaced by a FYA. I was looking for an eternal green straight arrow here earlier didn't see a signal for the through movement, which seems to be the exception in the STL area compared to other cities in this thread.

fwydriver405 · April 10, 2026, 10:31:32 PM

Come to think of it, the following types of intersections also generally seem to also have no signal for the through movement, which may make this semi-common if these intersection types are prevalent in such areas:

- The left turn crossover of a Continuous-flow intersection (CFI), prior to the actual intersection (Example 1, 2),
- The U-turn points of a signalised Michigan U-Turn and/or Restricted Crossing U-Turn (RCUT),
- Some B4 parclo interchanges (or variations of it), if the right turn coming off the freeway does not have signal control, and
- Certain Seagull / Continuous Flow T (as green ball, FYA) intersections, where cross street traffic wanting to turn left onto the main road must merge, and there is no crosswalk on the main road with the thru freeflow direction.

The_Ginger · April 11, 2026, 06:10:16 PM

I found three on WV 10 in Logan, W. Va.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pcbsps1Kojww3Pkv9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/V32WcQnKMYW7dAME7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CToTiVd8TqpyAfUb8

freebrickproductions · April 12, 2026, 05:42:28 PM

There's a bunch more around Alabama that I haven't shared yet, so here's a list of the ones I can think of that I haven't posted yet (trying again because Cloudflare decided to erase my original post entirely when I went to preview it so I could make sure the links were all right

jakeroot · April 13, 2026, 12:55:32 AM

Quote from: freebrickproductions on April 12, 2026, 05:42:28 PMUS 431 & Bynum Leatherwood Road, Anniston:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7175791,-85.8675091,3a,43y,279.26h,90.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snaRMRiPbEAJg51T78zN1tg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-0.1255193103053216%26panoid%3DnaRMRiPbEAJg51T78zN1tg%26yaw%3D279.25972748999476!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQwOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

It's great to see a second left turn signal on the far left corner, I know they are rare in Alabama. I feel like these should be a must with seagull-type intersections. The spirit of the MUTCD really should be to have supplemental displays for the important movement at an intersection; at seagull intersections, the green up arrows aren't really the most critical displays; the roadway itself usually makes it clear you can keep moving. The left turn signal is far more important since it actually changes, and should have a redundant/second/supplemental display.

kphoger · April 13, 2026, 09:49:16 AM

Quote from: freebrickproductions on April 12, 2026, 05:42:28 PM(trying again because Cloudflare decided to erase my original post entirely when I went to preview it so I could make sure the links were all right )

When I type a post that's long enough for me to suspect Cloudfare might cause problems, I make sure to hit Ctrl+A Ctrl+C right before clicking the Preview button.

freebrickproductions · April 14, 2026, 02:08:42 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2026, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on April 12, 2026, 05:42:28 PM(trying again because Cloudflare decided to erase my original post entirely when I went to preview it so I could make sure the links were all right )

When I type a post that's long enough for me to suspect Cloudfare might cause problems, I make sure to hit Ctrl+A Ctrl+C right before clicking the Preview button.

I had to do that when posting as well, lol.

Tendies · July 12, 2026, 11:28:35 PM

Theoretically permanent green arrow/red circle where a road dead ends at a half diamond, near the southern terminus of Los Patrones Parkway (Continuation of CA-241). There is also a theoretically permanent red facing where traffic would otherwise come out of the dead end. Note the traffic lane and bicycle gutter going the opposite direction, where there is no way for traffic to legally get to due to the no U turn. I suppose you could technically park on the unused pavement beyond where the road curves into NB LPP, then head back westbound, although that just seems like a U turn with extra steps. I also dont know if the light is even programmed to cycle.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fazgmKo2ixaXJ6vw9

JustDrive · July 17, 2026, 09:14:01 PM

Quote from: JustDrive on December 10, 2024, 11:34:48 AMNB Oxnard Blvd at Robert Ave, Glenwood Dr, and Citrus Grove Lane in Oxnard, CA have eternal green lights

EB Ventura Blvd at the SB 101 on-ramp in Woodland Hills, CA also has an eternal green.

Before CA 71 was upgraded to a freeway, it had a couple of them (SB at 2nd Street in Pomona, NB at Old Pomona Rd)

SB Sepulveda Blvd at the 405 entrance in Sherman Oaks (exit 63A) has an eternal green.

SB Overland Ave at the EB 10 entrance in West L.A. also has an eternal green.

mrsman · July 27, 2026, 09:18:13 PM

Quote from: Tendies on July 12, 2026, 11:28:35 PMTheoretically permanent green arrow/red circle where a road dead ends at a half diamond, near the southern terminus of Los Patrones Parkway (Continuation of CA-241). There is also a theoretically permanent red facing where traffic would otherwise come out of the dead end. Note the traffic lane and bicycle gutter going the opposite direction, where there is no way for traffic to legally get to due to the no U turn. I suppose you could technically park on the unused pavement beyond where the road curves into NB LPP, then head back westbound, although that just seems like a U turn with extra steps. I also dont know if the light is even programmed to cycle.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fazgmKo2ixaXJ6vw9

I don't even understand this traffic signal. I can see putting in a signal infrastructure to get ready for the possibility that Chiquita Canyon is ever extended. But why power the signal at all. There are no conflicting movements. Just cover the signal heads and turn off the power until such time as the signal becomes warranted.

Scott5114 · July 27, 2026, 10:01:28 PM

Quote from: mrsman on July 27, 2026, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: Tendies on July 12, 2026, 11:28:35 PMTheoretically permanent green arrow/red circle where a road dead ends at a half diamond, near the southern terminus of Los Patrones Parkway (Continuation of CA-241). There is also a theoretically permanent red facing where traffic would otherwise come out of the dead end. Note the traffic lane and bicycle gutter going the opposite direction, where there is no way for traffic to legally get to due to the no U turn. I suppose you could technically park on the unused pavement beyond where the road curves into NB LPP, then head back westbound, although that just seems like a U turn with extra steps. I also dont know if the light is even programmed to cycle.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fazgmKo2ixaXJ6vw9

I don't even understand this traffic signal. I can see putting in a signal infrastructure to get ready for the possibility that Chiquita Canyon is ever extended. But why power the signal at all. There are no conflicting movements. Just cover the signal heads and turn off the power until such time as the signal becomes warranted.

In Las Vegas what they do in this situation is install all the conduits and masts and everything but not put arms on them. So all that's there is what appears to be a particularly beefy-looking streetlight, which it is, other than having a place to install an arm later. Example

Tendies · July 27, 2026, 10:35:55 PM

Quote from: mrsman on July 27, 2026, 09:18:34 PM
Quote from: Tendies on July 12, 2026, 11:28:35 PMTheoretically permanent green arrow/red circle where a road dead ends at a half diamond, near the southern terminus of Los Patrones Parkway (Continuation of CA-241). There is also a theoretically permanent red facing where traffic would otherwise come out of the dead end. Note the traffic lane and bicycle gutter going the opposite direction, where there is no way for traffic to legally get to due to the no U turn. I suppose you could technically park on the unused pavement beyond where the road curves into NB LPP, then head back westbound, although that just seems like a U turn with extra steps. I also dont know if the light is even programmed to cycle.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fazgmKo2ixaXJ6vw9

I don't even understand this traffic signal. I can see putting in a signal infrastructure to get ready for the possibility that Chiquita Canyon is ever extended. But why power the signal at all. There are no conflicting movements. Just cover the signal heads and turn off the power until such time as the signal becomes warranted.

If it ever gets built. But aside from a utility truck once every few months, that red light facing nothing sees zero use. I wonder if it even has any active detection system.
Formerly it was a single left/straight left, and according to google earth's satellite view, it was converted to a double left in 2023 (2023-01 satellite vs 2024-01 GSV)

I found a temporary geometric analog due to contruction, where there was only one allowable movement that was also unimpeded. The traffic signals were temporarily deactivated, but not turned or covered.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/me46GvBFDqJAdvTC9

I agree though, signalizing this one way curve as it sits currently is entirely pointless. It's fairly common to power signal heads facing unused roads, I know of a few that never saw real use for years, if ever. Although those are almost always the unused fourth side of what effectively functions as a 3 way intersection.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2026, 10:01:28 PMIn Las Vegas what they do in this situation is install all the conduits and masts and everything but not put arms on them. So all that's there is what appears to be a particularly beefy-looking streetlight, which it is, other than having a place to install an arm later. Example

Same thing is currently happening in Surprise, Az along 163 av. Couldnt find an example on GSV but some of them even have the street name sign installed as well

jakeroot · July 27, 2026, 11:23:23 PM

Quote from: Tendies on July 27, 2026, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 27, 2026, 10:01:28 PMIn Las Vegas what they do in this situation is install all the conduits and masts and everything but not put arms on them. So all that's there is what appears to be a particularly beefy-looking streetlight, which it is, other than having a place to install an arm later. Example
Same thing is currently happening in Surprise, Az along 163 av. Couldnt find an example on GSV but some of them even have the street name sign installed as well

This is also common in WA. I suspect it's common throughout the west and in new-build areas generally.

Scott5114 · July 28, 2026, 12:10:04 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on July 27, 2026, 11:23:23 PMI suspect it's common ... in new-build areas generally.

Unfortunately spending money on planning ahead is not a lot of states' strong suits.

News:

Eternal Green Lights