WWTF is going on with Truck Drivers

[Max Rockatansky]

Anyone who would think U-turning a semi-truck across the fast lane and the median of an Interstate is a good idea is an unmitigated moron in any language.

This.

In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less.  This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.

It's why I was frustrated when the Teamsters kept fighting against the cross-border trucking pilot program, which allowed cross-border long-haul trucking operations between the USA and Mexico, due to supposed safety concerns.  If you've ever seen what truck drivers have to deal with in Mexico, then driving in the USA should be a piece of cake for them, whether they're good at reading English or not.

A Mexican Autopista is way more difficult to traverse than an Interstate.  The gradients are way higher, they generally narrower and have weird stuff going on like unexpected pedestrians (like food vendors).

[1995hoo]

Going back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?

[kalvado]

In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less.  This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.

You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)

[Max Rockatansky]

In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less.  This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.

You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)

From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated.  In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city.  Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).

[kalvado]

In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less.  This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.

You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)

From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated.  In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city.  Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).

I am thinking more about the logic of the road. Divided highway has a strict logic US drivers take for granted. Limited access, well defined access points, signage pattern - including MUTCD standard which is significantly different from Vienna convention. Signs you REALLY need to read. Imperial units on signs. Unspoken rules of the road, like how to treat merging traffic and what is the real speed allowance.

Even a great driver would need time to digest that. 

[Max Rockatansky]

In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less.  This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.

You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)

From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated.  In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city.  Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).

I am thinking more about the logic of the road. Divided highway has a strict logic US drivers take for granted. Limited access, well defined access points, signage pattern - including MUTCD standard which is significantly different from Vienna convention. Signs you REALLY need to read. Imperial units on signs. Unspoken rules of the road, like how to treat merging traffic and what is the real speed allowance.

Even a great driver would need time to digest that. 

Something I've never understood is why Mexico is on Vienna Convention signage.  It often is incredibly abrupt or at least way more so than MUTCD signage.  Strictly following numbered highways in Mexico is far from intuitive given continuity is poorly conveyed.  Me personally I find it easier to just follow gantry control city signage. 

[Bobby5280]

So... nothing much has changed, then?

Nothing except for the steady decline in the quality of truck drivers being hired.

[hbelkins]

The most recent example I saw was from suburban St. Louis in Illinois (interchange of I-64 and I-255). I only saw the knocked-down sign; I didn't see the truck that caused it.

[kphoger]

Going back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?

This is what I wonder every time.

[Molandfreak]

These damn crackers getting behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound vehicle without a care in the world. We need to test their ability to read!

[kalvado]

These damn crackers getting behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound vehicle without a care in the world. We need to test their ability to read!

Clear proof that CDL holders should be illiterate so not to get distracted by text on the screen!

[LilianaUwU]

Underqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.

[kalvado]

Underqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.

One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.

[LilianaUwU]

Underqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.

One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.

And thanks to that, we get the worst of both worlds: companies hiring underqualified truckers from abroad due to a shortage, and the worst people you know using this legitimate issue as an excuse to be racist.

[ElishaGOtis]

Going back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?

It happens so often you'll see this sign on many Florida freeways during a construction project.

Underqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.

One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.

And thanks to that, we get the worst of both worlds: companies hiring underqualified truckers from abroad due to a shortage, and the worst people you know using this legitimate issue as an excuse to be racist.

^^ This...

[Bickendan]

Lack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person. 

Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?

What Would Truckers Fuck?

A giant anthropomorphic beaver mascot.

*side-eyes Corvallis, Oregon*

[LilianaUwU]

Going back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?

As far as I understand it, it's a failsafe measure in case of malfunction.

[Quillz]

I kind of sensed some thinly veiled racism in this thread...

I think something else to be mentioned are small sample sizes. So someone saw "another one," that was their second one? Third one? An article was cited of it happening. Fair enough, but what about all the truck drivers that don't get into issues? Odds would say for every instance of this happening, there's a thousand instances of it not happening.

It's like if you live in a neighborhood and one year, three houses are broken into, but you only hear about it happening once. The next year, two houses are broken into, but this time you hear about it both times. This creates the perceptions break-ins have doubled, when the overall number is about the same or declined.

But bad drivers are bad drivers. I've known plenty of bad drivers who have never had any legal issues. Some people are easily distracted, and if it's not a cell phone, it's a radio, or a conversation, or anything else. Some of the worst drivers I encounter on the road are taxi drivers, who ironically, you'd think would be great drivers, right?

And so what if a sign says "official traffic only." History has shown people aren't always going to obey. It's also very clear it's illegal to rob a bank, murder people, or eat meat on Friday. People do it all the time. Who knows why people do the things they do.

I think the issues with the trucking industry are valid and well known, but that's been a notorious issue forever. It's like retail jobs, no one wants to work them with the low pay and often bad hours, so it's hard to retain people, the ones you do hire tend to only have no other viable options.

[kalvado]

I kind of sensed some thinly veiled racism in this thread...

I think something else to be mentioned are small sample sizes. So someone saw "another one," that was their second one? Third one? An article was cited of it happening. Fair enough, but what about all the truck drivers that don't get into issues? Odds would say for every instance of this happening, there's a thousand instances of it not happening.

It's like if you live in a neighborhood and one year, three houses are broken into, but you only hear about it happening once. The next year, two houses are broken into, but this time you hear about it both times. This creates the perceptions break-ins have doubled, when the overall number is about the same or declined.

But bad drivers are bad drivers. I've known plenty of bad drivers who have never had any legal issues. Some people are easily distracted, and if it's not a cell phone, it's a radio, or a conversation, or anything else. Some of the worst drivers I encounter on the road are taxi drivers, who ironically, you'd think would be great drivers, right?

And so what if a sign says "official traffic only." History has shown people aren't always going to obey. It's also very clear it's illegal to rob a bank, murder people, or eat meat on Friday. People do it all the time. Who knows why people do the things they do.

I think the issues with the trucking industry are valid and well known, but that's been a notorious issue forever. It's like retail jobs, no one wants to work them with the low pay and often bad hours, so it's hard to retain people, the ones you do hire tend to only have no other viable options.

Whatever it worth, but looks like US went through minimum of fatal accidents, both total and commercial, in 2010s. Rates are rising since beginning of COVID. Which is generally strange, as safety features of newer vehicles are improving, and older less safe vehicles are leaving roads.
It's not a strong trend in terms of numbers, but it just goes the wrong way.
Same is true for commercial vehicles.
I am not sure why that happens. It seems too fast of a trend to blame decay in road engineering (although likely a contribution), and vehicle design should move things other way. So there has to be something about who drives and how they drive.

[formulanone]

More trucks on roads each year
More cars on roads almost every year
Limited increase in overall lane-miles
Stagnant driver pay
Greater requirements for any driver
More unnecessary distractions
Ridiculous physical/time demands on drivers
Cherry-picking news stories

There's your answer.

[Chris]

Bridge strikes do occur in Europe, but not nearly as much as in North America it seems. An overpass on I-10 in Houston was hit 75 times in just over a year.

My theory is that this has to do with flatbed trailers. These trailers are far more common in the U.S. and Canada than in Europe, where most of these trucks use curtainside / tautliner trailers, which have roofs, so they are much less likely to result in overheight loading. Most bridge strikes I read about in Europe involve open flatbed trailers with construction materials (excavators in particular).

Another issue could be immigrant drivers who are not familiar with feet and inches. A flatbed driver has a different load several times per week, so they need to take a close look at their loading height compared to van trailers.

[CoreySamson]

I just want to clarify my stance, since there seem to be claims of racism in this thread, and I think I made the most provocative comment. I have no problems with immigrants getting driver's licenses and CDLs and driving trucks. As an example, my roommate last year, who is on a student visa from Zambia, got an Oklahoma driver's license over the summer, and I would have no problem if he decided to get training for a CDL. What I do have a problem with is states giving out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal migrants) who don't understand American road rules and may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident. The color of one's skin or that person's culture has nothing to do with that. It seems to me that at least part of the real issue is that, due to the increased demand for trucking, states have given out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal immigrants legitimately looking for a job, to no real fault of their own), which has led to unnecessary crashes and deaths.

Do I understand that there are other conflating factors that make this discussion more complex, which have been duly noted in this thread? Yes.
Do I recognize that many on the right are using this as an excuse to be racist towards immigrants? Absolutely.

[Quillz]

So there has to be something about who drives and how they drive.

On my car, the safety features are more like a buzzer or a ding, and can be ignored if I so desire. Things like adaptive cruise control require me to turn them on, and I can override the emergency braking if I want to. The car will warn me if I'm drifting, but has no way to stop me. If I'm tired, distracted, etc, it's not going to matter. How often have you followed people who have their turn signal on for miles? People are easily distracted and tune things out.

The issue has always been "bad drivers." Yesterday, today, tomorrow.

[kalvado]

I just want to clarify my stance, since there seem to be claims of racism in this thread, and I think I made the most provocative comment. I have no problems with immigrants getting driver's licenses and CDLs and driving trucks. As an example, my roommate last year, who is on a student visa from Zambia, got an Oklahoma driver's license over the summer, and I would have no problem if he decided to get training for a CDL. What I do have a problem with is states giving out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal migrants) who don't understand American road rules and may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident. The color of one's skin or that person's culture has nothing to do with that. It seems to me that at least part of the real issue is that, due to the increased demand for trucking, states have given out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal immigrants legitimately looking for a job, to no real fault of their own), which has led to unnecessary crashes and deaths.

Do I understand that there are other conflating factors that make this discussion more complex, which have been duly noted in this thread? Yes.
Do I recognize that many on the right are using this as an excuse to be racist towards immigrants? Absolutely.

I specifically re-read every single post in the thread. I am still struggling to see any sign of

thinly veiled racism in this thread...

It may exist in the wild, but over here discussion never went in that direction. Someone can show an example of otherwise.
Most what was brought up is an ability to read and understand English and units used on US roads - IMHO pretty valid discussion points. Which is not limited to immigrants. Numbers like 20-25% of US adults being at, or below, 6th grade reading level are thrown around all the time. Anecdotally, I heard about NYS DOT employees being illiterate (maybe it was not direct employee but a contractor, though).

[Quillz]

I am still struggling to see any sign of

Because different people interpret things differently. If you don't see it, fine. Others might.