What state posts the worst control cities? The best?

[MattHanson939]

I have a couple updates regarding the use of state capitals as a secondary instead of a primary control city.  As I stated before, Portland is the primary control city on I-5 south from Seattle, and I discovered something; at the interchange with I-90, the secondary control city is actually Tacoma, which is much bigger than Olympia.  And because of that, Olympia only becomes the secondary control after Tacoma.  Conversely, Seattle is the primary control city on I-5 north from Portland, with Olympia as a secondary.  In this image on Google Maps, I-5 north is dual signed Olympia/Seattle.

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8029327,-123.0043896,3a,29.1y,290.6h,85.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRPdixYjcnTWnGDzN1n23Ig!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D4.174478183202041%26panoid%3DRPdixYjcnTWnGDzN1n23Ig%26yaw%3D290.59685706035833!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgxMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

The second update is I discovered was on I-80 in Nebraska.  At the interchange with I-76, I saw I-80 east signed for Omaha instead of Lincoln on an overhead.  So I am convinced Lincoln is the secondary control city in this case.

[MattHanson939]

Redoing mileage signs on New Mexico interstates

I-25 north from Las Cruces to Albuquerque

After Lohman Ave: Jct. US 70, Dona Ana, Albuquerque
After US 70: keep Dona Ana, T or C, Albuquerque
After Radium Springs: change to Socorro, Albuquerque; or Hatch, Albuquerque
After Exit 35: keep Hatch, Jct. US 380 east, Albuquerque
After Exit 41: keep Garfield, Socorro, Albuquerque; or T or C, Socorro, Albuquerque
After Exit 51: Truth or Consequences, Socorro, Albuquerque
After Exit 59: Jct. NM 162, T or C, Albuquerque
After Exit 63: Las Palomas, T or C, Albuquerque
After Las Palomas: T or C, Albuquerque
After T or C: keep Elephant Butte, Jct. US 380 east, Albuquerque
After Exit 83: Exit 89, Socorro, Albuquerque
After Exit 89: keep Jct. US 380, Albuquerque
After Exit 92 and after Exit 100: Jct. US 380, Socorro, Albuquerque; or keep San Antonio, Socorro, Albuquerque
After Exit 115: San Antonio, Socorro, Albuquerque
After US 380: Socorro, Belen, Albuquerque
After Socorro and after Exit 156: Belen, Los Lunas, Albuquerque
After Exit 163: Jct. US 60 east, Belen, Albuquerque
After Exit 175: Belen, Los Lunas, Albuquerque
After Belen: Los Lunas, Isleta Pueblo, Albuquerque
After Los Lunas: Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Denver; or Jct. NM 317, Isleta Blvd., Albuquerque


===Albuquerque city limits, Denver becomes the primary control city, Santa Fe secondary===

I-25 north from Albuquerque to the Colorado state line
At Exit 228: keep Bernalillo, Santa Fe, Denver
Between Exits 233 and 234: keep Bernalillo, Jct. US 550, Denver
After US 550: Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Denver
After Exit 252: Santo Domingo Pueblo, Santa Fe, Denver
After Exit 259: Cochiti Pueblo, Santa Fe, Denver
After Exit 264: La Cienega, Santa Fe, Denver
After Exit 271: Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Denver
After Santa Fe: Jct. US 285 south, Las Vegas, Denver (285 south should be dual signed Clines Corners / Roswell)
After
After Exit 290: Glorieta, Las Vegas, Denver
After Exit 307: San Juan, Las Vegas, Denver
After Exit 319: Jct. NM 3, Las Vegas, Denver
After Las Vegas: Watrous, Wagon Mound, Denver; or Watrous, Raton, Denver
After Watrous: Wagon Mound, Raton, Denver; or Wagon Mound, Springer, Denver
After Exit 404: Springer, Raton, Denver
After Springer: Jct. NM 58, Raton, Denver
After Exit 419: keep Maxwell, Raton, Denver
After Exit 435: keep Jct. US 64, Raton, Denver
After Raton: keep Trinidad, Pueblo, Denver

[michravera]

I generally like states that post large cities (and out of state locations if needed) instead of every small town on the way, so for that, I think Ohio's control cities are pretty good, at least on the interstates. The state also doesn't really use secondary control cities as much as I've seen in other states on the 2di; they stick to the primaries. Here's my opinion on Ohio's control cities, and what I think could be changed, on 2di interstates and non-interstate expressways/freeways in the state from the Fixing Control Cities thread:

Ohio's 2di control cities are generally pretty good, and what you would expect.
I-70: Indianapolis, Dayton, Columbus, Wheeling (No changes)
I-71: Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland (No changes)
I-74: Indianapolis, Cincinnati (No Changes)
I-75: Lexington, Cincinnati, Dayton, Toledo, Detroit (No changes)
I-76: Lodi, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh
- I would change Lodi west of Akron to Columbus. Even though I-76 doesn't physically go to Columbus, most of the traffic on I-76 west of Akron are going to turn onto I-71 south, which heads to Columbus.

I-77: Marietta, Canton, Akron, Cleveland
- Marietta could be changed to Parkersburg, as the latter city is larger and only 10 miles south of Marietta.
- Between Marietta and Canton, I've only seen Marietta and Cleveland used as controls, notably at the I-70 interchange. I think Canton could be used NB until you get to Canton, then Akron, then Cleveland. The SB control cities are like this in the reverse order.

I-80: Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, Youngstown, NYC (No changes)
- I've seen people complain about NYC as a control in Ohio, but what other notable large city is in PA and NJ between Youngstown and NYC on I-80? State College? nah

I-90: Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, Erie (No changes)
- Minor nitpick, Erie could be printed as either 'Erie PA' or just 'Erie', instead of 'Erie Pa' that's currently in use.

I'm fine with the new signage that lack control cities on I-270 and I-275, as I find control cities on beltways somewhat confusing. Control routes could be used on I-270 however, like what I-275 does, if people want some sense of direction.

Will add US and State route freeways here later.

Will add US and State route freeways here later.

Currently, it seems like that Ohio likes to use every county seat as controls on US route and State route freeways. Every county seat is good for 2 lane roads, but for expressways and freeways, I think they should be treated to just a level below the standards as 2di interstates. Here's my opinions on more spaced out control cities that are more useful for long-distance drivers

OH 161/16: Columbus, Newark, Coshocton
- First of all, remove Columbus as a WB control city on the OH 16 split from the freeway and give it to the freeway continuation. No one is going to use the 2 lane OH 16 over the freeway to Columbus from Granville; it's not even one of the route options on Google Maps.
- With Columbus used on the freeway, New Albany could be removed or signed as a secondary.
- East of Newark, the only real option is Coshocton.
- This ties into my fictional idea to swap 161 and 16 west of Granville, to keep a single route number and exit number sequence on the whole freeway section. Because 161's western terminus is west of 16's, currently, the mileposts and exit numbers drop down from where 161 ends and 16 continues the freeway, causing some duplicated exit numbers on the freeway. Two of the digits are the same, so white-out should be adequate for turning 161 signage to 16 

US 23/OH 15: Portsmouth, Chillicothe, Columbus, (Delaware), (Marion), (Findlay), Toledo
- For the section south of I-270, Bye Circleville, Bye Piketon
- I placed Delaware in parenthesis as I think it's better than Toledo for NB 23 at the I-270 interchange. It's a busy 4 lane arterial between Columbus and Delaware, and traffic to Toledo also have the option to use I-71 then switch to US 36 and US 23 at Delaware. For SB, Delaware isn't necessary.
- Marion could be used too for its size, and home to an Ohio State regional campus, but it's close to Delaware, and not on any major junctions.
- Findlay could be added in for NB, as it's where OH 15 meets I-75 and is a sizable city. I chose to not include it though.

US 30: Ft Wayne, Lima, Mansfield, Canton
- Ft Wayne, Mansfield and Canton are no-brainers
- Lima isn't on US 30, but it's the only sizable city between Ft Wayne and Mansfield and is close to the junction with I-75, so I chose it.
- East of Canton, it's no longer a freeway or expressway

OH 32: Cincinnati, Athens, Parkersburg
The almost 200 mile distance between Cincinnati and Athens may be a bit long, but there's not really any good options between them on OH 32. If Corridor D used US 50 instead of OH 32, Chillicothe would be perfect. But that's not the case. Also, Cincinnati is signed WB as a control city in Athens.

US 33: Columbus, Athens
- I have no idea what to do with the freeway portion northwest of Columbus, as it ends in Bellefontaine, but Marysville is a larger city. Could keep both, but it would be inconsistent to the rest of what I want to do here. Fort Wayne is another option, but it's a bit far as it's mostly 2 lane to there.
- Between Columbus and Athens, those two cities should be the primary controls. So bye Lancaster and Logan.
- Southeast of Athens, it's a 2 lane

US 35: Dayton, Chillicothe, Charleston
- Dayton is obvious
- Chillicothe is where US 35 meets US 23, and a people on US 35 WB heading to cities like Columbus or Detroit would turn north onto US 23 here.
- US 35 doesn't physically reach Charleston, but it's close enough and is the next point for long distance traffic, as there isn't any other major point in the middle.

I also prefer large cities, and I don't like states that refuse to post out of state cities, like California.

It's not as bad as you think! California's "Other Desert Cities" have a total population about twice that of Yuma. Yeah, it's nothing compared to Phoenix (about 20 times smaller), but people on I-10 *ARE* trying to get to Cathedral City and Palm Desert which are close, as well as Phoenix (which, at that point, is fairly far away). ... And Phoenix is an "Other Desert City"

Yes, US-50 is signed as "South Lake Tahoe" rather than "Carson City". But, I-80 is signed as "Reno" and I-5 is often signed as "Portland".

[hobsini2]

It's pretty simple to me guys.
Use primary control cities at every interstate/freeway junction.
Use good secondary control cities at the more minor interchanges.
Sign the mileage signs with the next city or exit, then the next secondary and the next primary.
Oh look. Illinois does exactly that.

Now you can argue what constitutes a good control city as a secondary.
But IMO a good secondary has one or more of these criteria...
1. The city is over 50k and is far enough away (say 25-50 miles) from a bigger primary city. This eliminates the inner suburbs. Example being Joliet or Elgin or Waukegan and Chicago. OR the city is over 10k and the next major city is over 100 miles away. Hays KS comes to mind.
2. The city is at a major junction that some people have heard of. This would be like your Albert Lea, Effingham, Tomah, etc. Cove Fort not so much.
3. The city has a major university. Places like DeKalb, St Cloud, Rolla, etc.
4. The city is a major tourist destination. Places like Wisconsin Dells, Branson, Hot Springs, etc.

Now a bad control city, even for a secondary, would be like East St Louis and West Memphis when the major city is literally across the river or state line.

[kphoger]

But IMO a good secondary has one or more of these criteria...
1. The city is over 50k and is far enough away (say 25-50 miles) from a bigger primary city. This eliminates the inner suburbs. Example being Joliet or Elgin or Waukegan and Chicago. OR the city is over 10k and the next major city is over 100 miles away. Hays KS comes to mind.
2. The city is at a major junction that some people have heard of. This would be like your Albert Lea, Effingham, Tomah, etc. Cove Fort not so much.
3. The city has a major university. Places like DeKalb, St Cloud, Rolla, etc.
4. The city is a major tourist destination. Places like Wisconsin Dells, Branson, Hot Springs, etc.

Now a bad control city, even for a secondary, would be like East St Louis and West Memphis when the major city is literally across the river or state line.

How about Ames, IA?  Too close or far enough away from Des Moines?

[hobsini2]

But IMO a good secondary has one or more of these criteria...
1. The city is over 50k and is far enough away (say 25-50 miles) from a bigger primary city. This eliminates the inner suburbs. Example being Joliet or Elgin or Waukegan and Chicago. OR the city is over 10k and the next major city is over 100 miles away. Hays KS comes to mind.
2. The city is at a major junction that some people have heard of. This would be like your Albert Lea, Effingham, Tomah, etc. Cove Fort not so much.
3. The city has a major university. Places like DeKalb, St Cloud, Rolla, etc.
4. The city is a major tourist destination. Places like Wisconsin Dells, Branson, Hot Springs, etc.

Now a bad control city, even for a secondary, would be like East St Louis and West Memphis when the major city is literally across the river or state line.

How about Ames, IA?  Too close or far enough away from Des Moines?

Ames is a very good secondary.
Big enough pop and a major university.

[kphoger]

Oh, sorry, I thought you were saying Joliet and Elgin were too close to Chicago.  You were saying they're not.

[hobsini2]

Oh, sorry, I thought you were saying Joliet and Elgin were too close to Chicago.  You were saying they're not.

Correct. Ex-burbs are good secondaries.
Take LA for example.
To me, San Bernardino and Santa Ana are suburbs even though they are big cities in their own right. So I would say they are great secondary cities for I-10 and I-5.

[bassoon1986]

Here's another question for primary or secondary choice. US 75 north from I-30 in Dallas. Used to be Sherman, is now McKinney. Good choices or still too close to be considered Dallas suburbs?

[Scott5114]

Here's another question for primary or secondary choice. US 75 north from I-30 in Dallas. Used to be Sherman, is now McKinney. Good choices or still too close to be considered Dallas suburbs?

God forbid TxDOT acknowledge Durant.

[CoreySamson]

Here's another question for primary or secondary choice. US 75 north from I-30 in Dallas. Used to be Sherman, is now McKinney. Good choices or still too close to be considered Dallas suburbs?

I don't personally always have a problem with suburbs as control cities. In this case, I think McKinney is the best option, maybe with Tulsa as the primary once you leave McKinney going NB. With secondary controls, I think you could be much more liberal, using Richardson, Plano, Sherman, Durant, and McAlester respectively as you go north.

[Road Hog]

Here's another question for primary or secondary choice. US 75 north from I-30 in Dallas. Used to be Sherman, is now McKinney. Good choices or still too close to be considered Dallas suburbs?

It's been McKinney since the mid-Aughts but should have been Plano, which was and still is a much larger city of 350K population. You wouldn't see it, however, anywhere else than overhead gantries. Urban median fractional signs prevail well past McKinney these days, almost to Anna.

[architect77]

North Carolina will have signs naming towns as control cities where NC highways begin or terminate. My small hometown North of Raleigh has 2 NC highways that begin, 2 state routes that continue through, and 1 US highway running through.

As a result there is a sign on 3 nearby interstates that seem like an obscure place to most people who only recognize larger city destinations.

[kphoger]

As a result there is a sign on 3 nearby interstates that seem like an obscure place to most people who only recognize larger city destinations.

440, 540, and 885?

That's not really a control city, though, right?  Just an exit destination?  Hmmmmmm...  Scratch that.  I do see it being used as a control city on the state routes...

[architect77]

As a result there is a sign on 3 nearby interstates that seem like an obscure place to most people who only recognize larger city destinations.

440, 540, and 885?

That's not really a control city, though, right?  Just an exit destination?  Hmmmmmm...  Scratch that.  I do see it being used as a control city on the state routes...

It's the county seat of Franklin Co., Louisburg, NC.

It is mentioned twice on I-85 for NC56, US401 at the Virginia border, for NC561 on I-95, for NC39 on I-87, and several signs in Raleigh use it as a control city on I-440, I-540 and US1 for US401.

In Louisburg where NC561 begins, the control cities are for far away destinations, with a mileage sign to RICH SQUARE and AHOSKIE. both somewhere way up in Northeastern NC.

[hobsini2]

Here's another question for primary or secondary choice. US 75 north from I-30 in Dallas. Used to be Sherman, is now McKinney. Good choices or still too close to be considered Dallas suburbs?

McKinney is a good secondary. Sherman I consider a secondary. Honestly, I would have Tulsa be the primary for US 75. Both US 75/US 69 freeway and the US 75 2 lane are quicker to Tulsa than I-35 to I-44 by about 30 minutes.

[SkyPesos]

It's pretty simple to me guys.
Use primary control cities at every interstate/freeway junction.
Use good secondary control cities at the more minor interchanges.
Sign the mileage signs with the next city or exit, then the next secondary and the next primary.
Oh look. Illinois does exactly that.

Now you can argue what constitutes a good control city as a secondary.
But IMO a good secondary has one or more of these criteria...
1. The city is over 50k and is far enough away (say 25-50 miles) from a bigger primary city. This eliminates the inner suburbs. Example being Joliet or Elgin or Waukegan and Chicago. OR the city is over 10k and the next major city is over 100 miles away. Hays KS comes to mind.
2. The city is at a major junction that some people have heard of. This would be like your Albert Lea, Effingham, Tomah, etc. Cove Fort not so much.
3. The city has a major university. Places like DeKalb, St Cloud, Rolla, etc.
4. The city is a major tourist destination. Places like Wisconsin Dells, Branson, Hot Springs, etc.

Now a bad control city, even for a secondary, would be like East St Louis and West Memphis when the major city is literally across the river or state line.

A few questionable primary control cities in Illinois:
- Sterling and Rock Falls on I-88 at the I-80 junction. Could go with Aurora, as Chicago traffic would probably stay on I-80 as the non-tolled option.
- Jacksonville on I-72 at the I-55 junction. I think it could be signed directly for Hannibal or Quincy there.
- I like Wisconsin and Indiana as control states on I-90/94 as it reduces overhead sign clutter, both routes enter both states at different points, and aren't too far from the state line. Otoh, Iowa on I-80 could be replaced with one of the Quad Cities.
- "Interstate 270" on I-255 between I-55/70 and I-270. Sign Alton, and unify the exit numbers between I-255 and IL-255

Regarding the control states, I dislike Indiana signing "Ohio" on I-80/90 more than "Iowa" on I-80. At least I-80 is part of the route to most of the major population centers in Iowa. Meanwhile, traffic from Chicago for 2 of the 3C cities would've left I-80 or 90 at the I-65 interchange already.

[kphoger]

- Sterling and Rock Falls on I-88 at the I-80 junction. Could go with Aurora, as Chicago traffic would probably stay on I-80 as the non-tolled option.

I'd go with DeKalb instead.

[hobsini2]

It's pretty simple to me guys.
Use primary control cities at every interstate/freeway junction.
Use good secondary control cities at the more minor interchanges.
Sign the mileage signs with the next city or exit, then the next secondary and the next primary.
Oh look. Illinois does exactly that.

Now you can argue what constitutes a good control city as a secondary.
But IMO a good secondary has one or more of these criteria...
1. The city is over 50k and is far enough away (say 25-50 miles) from a bigger primary city. This eliminates the inner suburbs. Example being Joliet or Elgin or Waukegan and Chicago. OR the city is over 10k and the next major city is over 100 miles away. Hays KS comes to mind.
2. The city is at a major junction that some people have heard of. This would be like your Albert Lea, Effingham, Tomah, etc. Cove Fort not so much.
3. The city has a major university. Places like DeKalb, St Cloud, Rolla, etc.
4. The city is a major tourist destination. Places like Wisconsin Dells, Branson, Hot Springs, etc.

Now a bad control city, even for a secondary, would be like East St Louis and West Memphis when the major city is literally across the river or state line.

A few questionable primary control cities in Illinois:
- Sterling and Rock Falls on I-88 at the I-80 junction. Could go with Aurora, as Chicago traffic would probably stay on I-80 as the non-tolled option.
- Jacksonville on I-72 at the I-55 junction. I think it could be signed directly for Hannibal or Quincy there.
- I like Wisconsin and Indiana as control states on I-90/94 as it reduces overhead sign clutter, both routes enter both states at different points, and aren't too far from the state line. Otoh, Iowa on I-80 could be replaced with one of the Quad Cities.
- "Interstate 270" on I-255 between I-55/70 and I-270. Sign Alton, and unify the exit numbers between I-255 and IL-255

Regarding the control states, I dislike Indiana signing "Ohio" on I-80/90 more than "Iowa" on I-80. At least I-80 is part of the route to most of the major population centers in Iowa. Meanwhile, traffic from Chicago for 2 of the 3C cities would've left I-80 or 90 at the I-65 interchange already.

1. Sterling and Rock Falls are fine for secondaries but should not be primaries. DeKalb or Aurora should be the primary with Chicago from 88/80. Joliet and Chicago should be the primary for I-80. By doing that, you're giving the driver a better idea of what part of Chicagoland they are going through.
2. Absolutely. Jacksonville is a secondary. Quincy could be the primary until US 36 is completely freeway across Missouri then I would consider Kansas City as at least a co-primary.
3. Moline-Rock Island (on the Illinois side) and Davenport (on the Iowa side) should be primaries. The metro is big enough at 500k.
4. Yes it should be Alton.
5. Again, can't disagree. Toledo or Cleveland should be used on the Indiana Toll Rd. I-80 used to use Toledo as far west as I-55 back in the mid 1980s. I get changing it to Indiana but once in Indiana, use both Detroit and Toledo or Detroit and Cleveland on the Borman. I-65 does use Toledo for I-80 East.

[kphoger]

Because both I-88 and I-80 lead to Chicago (even though neither one enters Chicago city limits), I don't think either one should be signed as only Chicago at the 88/80 junction.

DeKalb / Joliet ??

But one thing is for sure:  there should be an I-80 city listed for Exit #1A here.

[JayhawkCO]

Because both I-88 and I-80 lead to Chicago (even though neither one enters Chicago city limits), I don't think either one should be signed as only Chicago at the 88/80 junction.

DeKalb / Joliet ??

But one thing is for sure:  there should be an I-80 city listed for Exit #1A here.

The only reason I'm mildly okay with your last point is because at that point, I-80 is part of the Quad Cities beltway heading south, and if you continued going south when the beltway turned again, you'd be on I-74 heading towards Peoria.

[kphoger]

meh.  The next two exits sign it for Joliet, as does the previous one.

(Yes, I know there's a difference between primary and secondary control cities.)

[hobsini2]

meh.  The next two exits sign it for Joliet, as does the previous one.

(Yes, I know there's a difference between primary and secondary control cities.)

Joliet is well enough known that it should be on the sign with Peoria since you wouldn't take 88 to get to Joliet.

OR you could put Peoria, Joliet and Chicago on as the control for 80 East at that junction. There are 3 line control cities in Illinois. See Bloomington with Southbound 55 being St Louis, Decatur and Indianapolis and Northbound 55 being Chicago, Peoria and Rockford.

[thenetwork]

I-76: Lodi, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh
- I would change Lodi west of Akron to Columbus. Even though I-76 doesn't physically go to Columbus, most of the traffic on I-76 west of Akron are going to turn onto I-71 south, which heads to Columbus

I-76 West from the I-77 North split down to US-224/I-277 (aka the Kenmore Leg) is signed for Barberton as is I-277/US-224 West from I-77. 

I would keep the Lodi control city as is, as US-224 is a well-traveled truck route west to US-250 (Norwalk-bound traffic) or all the way to Findlay.

[SkyPesos]

Because both I-88 and I-80 lead to Chicago (even though neither one enters Chicago city limits), I don't think either one should be signed as only Chicago at the 88/80 junction.

DeKalb / Joliet ??

But one thing is for sure:  there should be an I-80 city listed for Exit #1A here.

Could sign both for Chicago in addition to Dekalb or Aurora for I-88 and Joliet for I-80. Shows that there are two routings you could take to Chicago.

I-76: Lodi, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh
- I would change Lodi west of Akron to Columbus. Even though I-76 doesn't physically go to Columbus, most of the traffic on I-76 west of Akron are going to turn onto I-71 south, which heads to Columbus

I-76 West from the I-77 North split down to US-224/I-277 (aka the Kenmore Leg) is signed for Barberton as is I-277/US-224 West from I-77. 

I would keep the Lodi control city as is, as US-224 is a well-traveled truck route west to US-250 (Norwalk-bound traffic) or all the way to Findlay.

Eh, I-71/US 30/OH 15 is probably faster than US 224 for Lodi to Findlay, and I don't think Norwalk (or Findlay) are big enough to affect control city choices.

Looking back at my thoughts on Ohio's control cities, I don't like Wheeling as a primary on I-70 EB as much as before. It's smaller than secondaries on other interstates in the state (Lima, Findlay, Mansfield, etc), so using Pittsburgh EB from Columbus is preferable imo (Washington, PA is part of the Pittsburgh metro area).