Letting a Car sit around for a Long Time

[Dirt Roads]

From the <Igo car shoppin'> thread:

The other thing that I'd like to hear more about with plug-in hybrids is how they deal with the potential problem of stale gas if you drive on electric power enough that you don't fill up very often. Car and Driver said the gas tanks are sealed even more tightly than on normal cars to prevent fuel oxidization, but they didn't mention anything about whether the car's electronics are sophisticated enough to know whether to turn on the gas engine periodically to cycle the fuel even if it wouldn't otherwise be needed.

I have an old beat-up pickup truck that get occasional usage.  I always keep it filled with ethanol-free (which is usually listed as mid-grade, but tends to be the same old 92-octane low-grade regular from days gone by).  Just like with a gas-powered lawnmower, whenever I know that I'm going to run the tank all the way down I will run regular E10 gas (10% ethanol) then refill with non-ethanol before I store the truck for more than 2 weeks. 

The weather here has been cool and dry for the past 2 months, and I've practically been using the truck for everything.  Still got a half-tank of non-ethanol, when I could have been running on E10.  That could have been a mistake, except that the price of my last tank of non-ethanol was only 30 cents more than the going rate for E10 around here ($4.49⁹/gal).

Also note that this older truck has a few minutes of "hiccups" each time I switch back-and-forth (I'm sure that this isn't good for the atmosphere, but I do live in the only "clean county" in the region).  I've heard that cars built in 2001 or newer (which can run off of E15 gasoline) don't get those hiccups, but I'm cheap so I've never bothered trying to switch back-and-forth with a normal-use car.

All that being said, it would make sense to me to always use non-ethanol fuel in a plug-in hybrid car (presuming that your main purpose is to run in EV mode as much as possible).  But whenever you go on a long trip through the mountains, you could always bump up to regular E10 gasoline as long you don't store the car with hardly any ethanol in the tank for more than 2 weeks when you get home.  (Ask if not sure how).

[1995hoo]

I'm not sure where in my area I would even find non-ethanol gas.

[kphoger]

I fill up my lawnmower with no-ethanol gasoline as well.  I also run it dry after the last mowing and store it empty.  However, I can easily go half the summer on a single gas can, and that can typically sits on the shelf in the shed all winter—with an open nozzle, and the shed roof has cracks.

Remember that, whatever 'bad gas' is sitting in your tank, if you fill up the tank the rest of the way, then the bad-ness gets diluted.  I think the main thing is just to fill up your tank before the first mowing of the season, rather than trying to start it on a mostly-empty tank that might have started to go 'bad'.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the gas in a hybrid car going 'bad' unless I planned to not fill it up at all within, say, six months.  Maybe even longer.

[kphoger]

I'm not sure where in my area I would even find non-ethanol gas.

https://www.pure-gas.org

BP, Catlett:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/sSFDEDkGREbrr3px6

Reportedly, and also on Reddit, a Liberty station in Arlington and a Sunoco station in Ashburn too, but I can confirm neither one on GSV.

Not much in your area other than that.

[1995hoo]

Thanks for the link. No way would I drive all the way down to Catlett unless I had some other reason to head that way (and the main reason, to play golf, is no longer valid because the golf course that used to be in Midland went out of business).

[kphoger]

In contrast, there's a big station less than a mile from my house that advertises their no-ethanol price instead of premium grade right there on the big sign, and 60% of their pumps offer it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTqhyw866MeMA9J36

[Beltway]

I have aimed to drive my 1954 MG TF at least once a week, but usually it is more time than that. I dragged my feet on getting a new battery and it was over 3 months last time. Installed the new battery and the car started fine. Gasoline was over 3 months old but I only use E0 93 octane gasoline.

[Beltway]

Thanks for the link. No way would I drive all the way down to Catlett unless I had some other reason to head that way (and the main reason, to play golf, is no longer valid because the golf course that used to be in Midland went out of business).

Per the link -- stations in Arlington, Ashburn, Berryville and Spotsylvania. Like with Richmond, NOVA has relatively few.

Some metros are loaded with stations with E0.

[1995hoo]

Thanks for the link. No way would I drive all the way down to Catlett unless I had some other reason to head that way (and the main reason, to play golf, is no longer valid because the golf course that used to be in Midland went out of business).

Per the link -- stations in Arlington, Ashburn, Berryville and Spotsylvania. Like with Richmond, NOVA has relatively few.

Some metros are loaded with stations with E0.

Yeah, a few minutes ago I looked at the link. I know where that Liberty station in Arlington is, but I notice it says the ethanol-free gas is 90 octane. My car specifies 91 or higher. I suppose if it were a situation where I weren't going to be driving it at all I might consider a tank of 90 as an interim measure. I'm not going to drive to those other locations for rather obvious reasons (all too far to make sense).

It doesn't surprise me that Northern Virginia has very few stations selling ethanol-free because we are also the part of the Commonwealth where our vehicles are subject to the emissions inspection every other year (mine is due this year). Supposedly air pollution is one of several reasons for the ethanol in gas.

[Max Rockatansky]

This is a concern with my Challenger.  I run the car for at least 20 minutes during the summer and 40 minutes during the winter.  Usually I'll run it close to empty and put five gallons of fresh gas in the tank (unless I'm going somewhere with it).  The bigger issue has been more about keeping the battery charged, especially in winter months.

I'm uncertain the specifics of gas blends in Mexico but usually every vehicle we have down there gets run once a week.  The gas does begin to break down though since it tends to sit for several months.  Usually a couple drive cycles along with fresh fuel resolves things when I'm on trips down there.

[kphoger]

I notice it says the ethanol-free gas is 90 octane. My car specifies 91 or higher.

FYI...  I used to own a vehicle whose manual said it recommended 89 or higher.  But then, in another section of the same manual, it said it required 87 or higher.  Note the difference in terminology:  recommend vs require.  After I read that, I switched to filling up with 87 from then on—even used 85 in higher elevations in Colorado.

[Beltway]

Some metros are loaded with stations with E0.

Yeah, a few minutes ago I looked at the link. I know where that Liberty station in Arlington is, but I notice it says the ethanol-free gas is 90 octane. My car specifies 91 or higher. I suppose if it were a situation where I weren't going to be driving it at all I might consider a tank of 90 as an interim measure. I'm not going to drive to those other locations for rather obvious reasons (all too far to make sense).
It doesn't surprise me that Northern Virginia has very few stations selling ethanol-free because we are also the part of the Commonwealth where our vehicles are subject to the emissions inspection every other year (mine is due this year). Supposedly air pollution is one of several reasons for the ethanol in gas.

No emissions tests in Richmond area.

The station I use for E0 93 octane is 35 miles away in Powhatan C.H. I have driven the MG there a couple times, but my usual practice is to take my Enclave out there and fill two 5-gallon portable fuel containers and bring them back home. That is enough for a couple months. Heavier usage I would just get 2 more cans.

[Beltway]

I would hope that the difference between 90 and 91 would be small enough that it would not matter.

[Dirt Roads]

I know where that Liberty station in Arlington is, but I notice it says the ethanol-free gas is 90 octane.

That must be a Sunoco station (or a distributor of Sunoco non-ethanol gas, such as Valero).  Sunoco is unique in that they still blend gasoline in the old-school method, starting with raw gasoline (promoted as 90-octane Recreational REC-90) and then custom-blending up the various concoctions.  Virtually all other brands are pre-blended before being transported to the gas station, and since the non-ethanol gasoline is essentially the same as the stuff mixed with ethanol it needs to have a higher octane (typically 92 or 93).  I suspect that my old pickup would do well on 90-octane REC.

By the way, it begs to mention that boating and other marine uses should use non-ethanol gasoline (as should any other small engine application).

I would hope that the difference between 90 and 91 would be small enough that it would not matter.

Unfortunately, it probably does.  Assuming that 90% octane is roughly equivalent to 10% heptane in the fuel mix (in real life, it's got less heptane and a much higher percentage of other not-quite-as-nasty stuff) but the difference between 90-octane and 91-octane is (again roughly equivalent) to a 10% improvement in the fuel mix.  regardless, if the manufacturer's requirement is for 91-octane or higher, you run the risk of invalidating the warranty (which they will happily do so, if you so desire).  Otherwise, you just get a bit more knocking when "running on empty".

[Road Hog]

You can buy cans of ethanol-free at stores like Tractor Supply, but OMG you'll pay through the nose. Stores are hit-or-miss around me but within a 30-minute drive of me, I know of a Buc-ee's, one Murphy USA that's open and another opening nearby, and a Casey's up in Sherman that sell ethanol-free at the pump.

[kphoger]

By the way, it begs to mention that boating and other marine uses should use non-ethanol gasoline (as should any other small engine application).

This is why the other no-ethanol vendors in his area are all marinas.

[1995hoo]

I know where that Liberty station in Arlington is, but I notice it says the ethanol-free gas is 90 octane.

That must be a Sunoco station (or a distributor of Sunoco non-ethanol gas, such as Valero). ....

I don't know whether Liberty obtains gas from someone else. I do know that near where I live, there's a Liberty station next door to a Sunoco station, which would suggest the former doesn't buy from the latter, but neither one of those locations sells the no-ethanol stuff and thus the situation isn't necessarily comparable.

[kphoger]

I do know that near where I live, there's a Liberty station next door to a Sunoco station, which would suggest the former doesn't buy from the latter

Haven't seen a tanker truck there to know which ones fill up the tanks, huh?

[1995hoo]

I do know that near where I live, there's a Liberty station next door to a Sunoco station, which would suggest the former doesn't buy from the latter

Haven't seen a tanker truck there to know which ones fill up the tanks, huh?

Haven't paid attention. If I'm not stopping to buy gas, I'm paying attention to the traffic because those stations are in a busy area with a two-way left-turn lane, three gas stations, a McDonald's, a mid-block crosswalk, and a nearby high school (with a new speed camera).

[CoreySamson]

In contrast, there's a big station less than a mile from my house that advertises their no-ethanol price instead of premium grade right there on the big sign, and 60% of their pumps offer it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTqhyw866MeMA9J36

One of my local Buc-ee's advertises it too:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qqz2JabGdfzvKmdd9

Most of them in the area offer ethanol free, but I think this is the only one that advertises the price.

[kphoger]

In contrast, there's a big station less than a mile from my house that advertises their no-ethanol price instead of premium grade right there on the big sign, and 60% of their pumps offer it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTqhyw866MeMA9J36

One of my local Buc-ee's advertises it too:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qqz2JabGdfzvKmdd9

Most of them in the area offer ethanol free, but I think this is the only one that advertises the price.

QT stations do too here:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/hgBQfeRd65bShMYv9

[CoreySamson]

In contrast, there's a big station less than a mile from my house that advertises their no-ethanol price instead of premium grade right there on the big sign, and 60% of their pumps offer it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTqhyw866MeMA9J36

One of my local Buc-ee's advertises it too:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qqz2JabGdfzvKmdd9

Most of them in the area offer ethanol free, but I think this is the only one that advertises the price.

QT stations do too here:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/hgBQfeRd65bShMYv9

Kind of an interesting observation I just made: the colors for the ethanol price are different on all three signs (the first one is white, the second is blue, and the third is red). I think it's interesting how we associate green with diesel and red with normal gasoline. Are there any examples of gas stations using electronic signs with different colors?

[kphoger]

Kind of an interesting observation I just made: the colors for the ethanol price are different on all three signs (the first one is white, the second is blue, and the third is red). I think it's interesting how we associate green with diesel and red with normal gasoline.

In Mexico, green is associated with regular, red is associated with premium, and black is associated with Diesel.  That's how Pemex does things, and Pemex was the only game in town for years and years.

Now that other chains have been allowed to move in, some of them are using different colors.

Blue for regular at this Valero:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/vrYaeA8BUoMdkFwF9
Blue for regular at this Gulf:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/1dHnDgXKY6AU3mDA6
Blue for premium at this BP:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/Nf1ydhiJES3rJ83r9
No color coding at all at this Mobil:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/BndUMcY52S8jUXmk8

[1995hoo]

I know of a BP station that uses green for everything: https://maps.app.goo.gl/zh3Q64gJa685V94w8

[kphoger]

Are there any examples of gas stations using electronic signs with different colors?

I can't think of any offhand that mess with red and green (especially green), but...

The price for regular with a gift card gets top billing in orange numbers at Stripes stations:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/D92aowViHayuga2F6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6jedt7vntMfc591L9