Phoenix Area Highways

[Rothman]

Apparently Queen Creek has switched back to Clearview for its newest street blades, despite street blades not being an approved use in the 2023 MUTCD. I wonder if the town did it in protest of the new MUTCD. Clearview is only allowed for freeway guide signs in the 2023 MUTCD. Street blades are not a valid use of Clearview in the 2023 MUTCD.

$10 says they didn't consult the MUTCD at all.

Which is a good thing, IMHO. 

Since when does the Federal Gummint have the authority to control what any city or town does with its own street blades?  In fact, what authority do they have at all, other than on Interstates (maybe)?  As long as the signs are legible and first responders can read them, that's all that matters.  Washington should have no say-so.

They don't, but they can withhold Federal Aid funds.

Which is nothing more than extortion. 

I remember the debacle that was the nationwide 55 MPH speed limit 40-50 years ago.  The Feds had no Constitutional authority to do that, but the states caved in anyway.  Even taking into account that it was supposed to save gas after the Arab oil embargo of 1973, it was beyond the authority of the Federal Government.

There were court cases over the NMSL.  One example was when Nevada was threatened to have their federal funding taken away and they sued and lost. 

I mean, the federal government's authority over its own funding is pretty clear in the Constitution.

[Plutonic Panda]

I-10 might be getting some upgrades near downtown:

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/deck-park-tunnel-to-i10-i17-split-corridor?fbclid=IwdGRleASK4XlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeQl1lNBsB9kQ3ZjYqYYJ1zQ3m4U762LpmG3Nnw2azWteFBR-JVPlUAMdewlo_aem_ZWDinvQVqOTDoErBYW0rpg

[The Ghostbuster]

I'd add congestion-priced tolling to the existing HOV Lanes, as well as add HOT Lanes in locations where there currently aren't any.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'd add congestion-priced tolling to the existing HOV Lanes, as well as add HOT Lanes in locations where there currently aren't any.

No tolls. Double stack the highway for the best results. Double the amount of lanes. That's the best solution here.

[Plutonic Panda]

I-10 might be getting some upgrades near downtown:

https://azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/deck-park-tunnel-to-i10-i17-split-corridor?fbclid=IwdGRleASK4XlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeQl1lNBsB9kQ3ZjYqYYJ1zQ3m4U762LpmG3Nnw2azWteFBR-JVPlUAMdewlo_aem_ZWDinvQVqOTDoErBYW0rpg

An article on this: https://www.axios.com/local/phoenix/2026/06/02/interstate-10-improvements-arizona-department-of-transportation

[Tendies]

There were court cases over the NMSL.  One example was when Nevada was threatened to have their federal funding taken away and they sued and lost. 

I mean, the federal government's authority over its own funding is pretty clear in the Constitution.

I remember reading something about this many years ago. I believe it was a $5 "wasting energy" ticket that was payable on the spot and didn't affect your record.

[Scott5114]

Apparently Queen Creek has switched back to Clearview for its newest street blades, despite street blades not being an approved use in the 2023 MUTCD. I wonder if the town did it in protest of the new MUTCD. Clearview is only allowed for freeway guide signs in the 2023 MUTCD. Street blades are not a valid use of Clearview in the 2023 MUTCD.

$10 says they didn't consult the MUTCD at all.

Which is a good thing, IMHO. 

Since when does the Federal Gummint have the authority to control what any city or town does with its own street blades?  In fact, what authority do they have at all, other than on Interstates (maybe)?  As long as the signs are legible and first responders can read them, that's all that matters.  Washington should have no say-so.

They don't, but they can withhold Federal Aid funds.

Which is nothing more than extortion. 

I remember the debacle that was the nationwide 55 MPH speed limit 40-50 years ago.  The Feds had no Constitutional authority to do that, but the states caved in anyway.  Even taking into account that it was supposed to save gas after the Arab oil embargo of 1973, it was beyond the authority of the Federal Government.

South Dakota v. Dole held that the federal government does, indeed, have the Constitutional authority to withhold highway funds if the states don't do whatever highway-related thing the feds want.

As for "as long as the signs are legible and first responders can read them, that's all that matters"—that's great, but how do you define what "legible" means? For FHWA Series we have data showing that we get 40 feet of legibility per inch of letter height. That's fantastic data to have because you can calculate how big to make the letters based on design speed and braking distance.

For Clearview...who the fuck knows? Meeker said it was more than that, but actual testing said it's less in some situations but not others, so the data we do have is too complicated to boil down to something like the nice round "40 ft per inch" FHWA Series gets us. Lord knows we don't even have that data for Arial or Franklin Gothic or whatever the fuck is going on in Santa Barbara.

So tell me, what's the practical purpose of allowing any of that? To make some suburban municipal official feel good about sticking it to the man? Is Queen Creek run by fifteen-year-olds or something?

[The Ghostbuster]

This article is a day old, but freeway closures are coming (or are already here): https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/story/news/local/phoenix-traffic/2026/06/12/metro-phoenix-freeway-closure/90516482007/.

[Plutonic Panda]

Phase 1 of the SR 347 Improvement Project begins this summer:

https://azdot.gov/news/join-adot-june-17-open-house-sr-347-improvement-project?fbclid=IwdGRleASdv2BleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeNyp7jCSZfLedUoO8N-TJ7-6mG-XDUWXyenp2t93GPF2Yzjlc51PwU4MntDc_aem_iZqfFTQx5DN2zxfjLnUl5w

[Roadwarriors79]

I know this is north of Phoenix, but the I-17 Flex Lanes have been open for awhile now. Pretty good going NB, but sometimes there can be heavy delays at the north end near Sunset Point. Hopefully someday ADOT will extend them north, or add a lane in each direction to the  AZ 69 interchange in Cordes Junction.

[Roadwarriors79]

As far as I can tell, there's less Clearview usage overall in the Phoenix area. Queen Creek may or may not be using them on new street blades, but at new traffic signals, the street names are NOT in Clearview. New traffic signals in Phoenix, Avondale, Peoria, and some of Buckeye still use Clearview signs.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know this is north of Phoenix, but the I-17 Flex Lanes have been open for awhile now. Pretty good going NB, but sometimes there can be heavy delays at the north end near Sunset Point. Hopefully someday ADOT will extend them north, or add a lane in each direction to the  AZ 69 interchange in Cordes Junction.

Really if they would just build decent passenger rail between Tuscon, Phoenix, Sedona, and Flag, widen I-17 to 3 lanes each way no more need for flex lanes atm, and 89A 2 lanes each way from Phoenix to Sedona that would go a long ways to solve a lot of issues in the state for a while.

Arizona is not poor. This is doable. The problem is politics and priorities.

[Plutonic Panda]

And this is probably more suitable for the Arizona thread, but I mean, I think the biggest priority in the state should be fixing I 17 and that whole corridor from Phoenix to Flagstaff.

Real project from Tucson to Flagstaff as a companion project. Maybe some spurs to Cottonwood and Prescott.

Get I-11 done from the 40 to Nevada.

Parts of I-40 need to be repaved.

I don't know much about Tucson, but they don't seem like they're in some dire need of expansions like the Phoenix Metro is. Plus they're a little bit more anti-freeway anyways.

Arizona has it pretty good actually. Yeah there can be some shitty weather on I-40. There is issues with heat buckling. A lot of the state has decent weather a lot of of the year I drive that road over a dozen times a year.

Maricopa and Pima counties both have their own sales tax measures that they used to fund a pretty hefty portion of their own freeway ambition plans.

Not a lot of need for expensive bridges.

US-93 need some remaining four lane projects but honestly I-11 would be super nice, but I wouldn't say it is an extremely high priority right now it's just a number. A divided four lane US-93 could work pretty well for a long time. I would just make it interstate 11 from the Nevada state line to I-40 for the time being.

Again, Arizona has a pretty fucking good. Their states that I look at like Louisiana, or North Carolina, or Texas, or Mississippi, and I think to myself for a variety of reasons whether they don't have the money or state like taxes that's bill bill bill, bill bill, and you think how the fuck are they gonna maintain all these new roads in the future? Or Louisiana, which every other project needs to be a multi billion dollar bridge. Or North Carolina that wants to build 1 million different interstates. Louisiana almost has the same problem with stuff like I-14, I-49, I-69 etc.

Arizona just has I-11 but for whatever reason they're more concerned on building it in the last most least important area that it should be built at. And with unlimited money, I would love to see a redundant interstate going south of Phoenix to the Mexico State border and replace I-19 but I mean as it stands that seems like something I would build on Sim city it's hard to believe there's actually planners working for the state department in Arizona studying this right now.

So it seems to me that Arizona is in a pretty good situation but they're pretty much focused on spending billions on I-11 south of Phoenix.

[howlincoyote2k1]

And this is probably more suitable for the Arizona thread, but I mean, I think the biggest priority in the state should be fixing I 17 and that whole corridor from Phoenix to Flagstaff.

Real project from Tucson to Flagstaff as a companion project. Maybe some spurs to Cottonwood and Prescott.

Get I-11 done from the 40 to Nevada.

Parts of I-40 need to be repaved.

I don't know much about Tucson, but they don't seem like they're in some dire need of expansions like the Phoenix Metro is. Plus they're a little bit more anti-freeway anyways.

Arizona has it pretty good actually. Yeah there can be some shitty weather on I-40. There is issues with heat buckling. A lot of the state has decent weather a lot of of the year I drive that road over a dozen times a year.

Maricopa and Pima counties both have their own sales tax measures that they used to fund a pretty hefty portion of their own freeway ambition plans.

Not a lot of need for expensive bridges.

US-93 need some remaining four lane projects but honestly I-11 would be super nice, but I wouldn't say it is an extremely high priority right now it's just a number. A divided four lane US-93 could work pretty well for a long time. I would just make it interstate 11 from the Nevada state line to I-40 for the time being.

Again, Arizona has a pretty fucking good. Their states that I look at like Louisiana, or North Carolina, or Texas, or Mississippi, and I think to myself for a variety of reasons whether they don't have the money or state like taxes that's bill bill bill, bill bill, and you think how the fuck are they gonna maintain all these new roads in the future? Or Louisiana, which every other project needs to be a multi billion dollar bridge. Or North Carolina that wants to build 1 million different interstates. Louisiana almost has the same problem with stuff like I-14, I-49, I-69 etc.

Arizona just has I-11 but for whatever reason they're more concerned on building it in the last most least important area that it should be built at. And with unlimited money, I would love to see a redundant interstate going south of Phoenix to the Mexico State border and replace I-19 but I mean as it stands that seems like something I would build on Sim city it's hard to believe there's actually planners working for the state department in Arizona studying this right now.

So it seems to me that Arizona is in a pretty good situation but they're pretty much focused on spending billions on I-11 south of Phoenix.

I think I agree with most of your post but IMO priority #1 should be resurfacing US 93 north of Kingman (and some spots south as well). The road quality has gone past bad, it's just an absolute travesty and embarrassment to ADOT that they've let the road deteriorate this much in quality.

That said, I still just don't understand (well, perhap$ I do under$tand) why ADOT is so hell-bent on building a redundant Interstate through uninhabited desert. Just improve the one freeway we have now! Is that so hard?

I-11 should be Phoenix <==> Las Vegas and DONE.

[Plutonic Panda]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

[pderocco]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

Trying to discourage Arizona residents from losing their life savings in Vegas?

[Max Rockatansky]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

Trying to discourage Arizona residents from losing their life savings in Vegas?

Laughlin casinos have better odds on machines anyways.  AZ 68 right there and ready to funnel traffic into southern Clark County.   

[Plutonic Panda]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

Trying to discourage Arizona residents from losing their life savings in Vegas?

Not before they wanna spend billions of dollars building a new interstate through Desert land so developers can further buildup and increase sprawl. I'm sure they really care about the people.

[Plutonic Panda]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

Trying to discourage Arizona residents from losing their life savings in Vegas?

Laughlin casinos have better odds on machines anyways.  AZ 68 right there and ready to funnel traffic into southern Clark County.   

You know I'm not sure why, but I got it confused with US 66 northeast of Kingman. That's the road. I was thinking of that's in horrible shape.

[pderocco]

US-93 north of Kingman is an atrocity. Almost every time ADOT posts someone inevitably posts about that and I for the life of me do not understand why they don't fix this.

Trying to discourage Arizona residents from losing their life savings in Vegas?

Laughlin casinos have better odds on machines anyways.  AZ 68 right there and ready to funnel traffic into southern Clark County.   

You know I'm not sure why, but I got it confused with US 66 northeast of Kingman. That's the road. I was thinking of that's in horrible shape.

US-93 north of Kingman is pretty awful for part of it's length.