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Pennsylvania

Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
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74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
Mob-Rule:  https://mob-rule.com/user/markkos1992

Gnutella

Here's a couple of bridge projects on I-80 in western Pennsylvania:


Canoe Creek Bridges replacement (Clarion County)

North Fork Bridges replacement (Jefferson County)


Both projects also appear to involve realigning the eastbound bridge approaches to eliminate substandard curves.

Dough4872

I will never get how Pennsylvania had US highways like US 202 and the former US 309 when US 2 and US 9 never entered Pennsylvania.

Bitmapped

Quote from: Dough4872 on July 26, 2026, 11:05:35 AMI will never get how Pennsylvania had US highways like US 202 and the former US 309 when US 2 and US 9 never entered Pennsylvania.

That's not uncommon. US 220 enters Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and North Carolina even US 20 never goes near them. Same thing with US 522 in Maryland and Virginia. The 3-digit child just needed to touch its parent somewhere, and that could be hundreds of miles away in another state.

vdeane

Quote from: Bitmapped on July 26, 2026, 11:42:09 AM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 26, 2026, 11:05:35 AMI will never get how Pennsylvania had US highways like US 202 and the former US 309 when US 2 and US 9 never entered Pennsylvania.

That's not uncommon. US 220 enters Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and North Carolina even US 20 never goes near them. Same thing with US 522 in Maryland and Virginia. The 3-digit child just needed to touch its parent somewhere, and that could be hundreds of miles away in another state.
This is why I don't get the US route system numbering.  A "spur" route should be somehow related to serving the interests of people traveling the main route it's a spur of.  It shouldn't be a completely separate corridor that (hopefully) intersects its parents (or another spur of the parent) at some point.  3dis are generally good with that.  3dus routes, on the other hand, are so bad at this that I struggle to think of any that ever fit those criteria.  And some, like US 202, travel such roundabout routes that I can't think of what the purpose of the route even existing in the first place even is.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

pderocco

Quote from: vdeane on July 26, 2026, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on July 26, 2026, 11:42:09 AM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 26, 2026, 11:05:35 AMI will never get how Pennsylvania had US highways like US 202 and the former US 309 when US 2 and US 9 never entered Pennsylvania.

That's not uncommon. US 220 enters Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and North Carolina even US 20 never goes near them. Same thing with US 522 in Maryland and Virginia. The 3-digit child just needed to touch its parent somewhere, and that could be hundreds of miles away in another state.
This is why I don't get the US route system numbering.  A "spur" route should be somehow related to serving the interests of people traveling the main route it's a spur of.  It shouldn't be a completely separate corridor that (hopefully) intersects its parents (or another spur of the parent) at some point.  3dis are generally good with that.  3dus routes, on the other hand, are so bad at this that I struggle to think of any that ever fit those criteria.  And some, like US 202, travel such roundabout routes that I can't think of what the purpose of the route even existing in the first place even is.
There are a lot more US routes than Interstates, so a lot of 3dus routes would have been better numbered as 2dus, but we would have run out of 2dus routes before we got half way across the country. Think US-191 and US-395, both of which are very long, and neither of which contact their "parent". Also, I don't think US-202 is particularly "roundabout". On a macro scale, it's a fairly straight diagonal spur route.

Revive 755

Quote from: pderocco on July 26, 2026, 08:43:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 26, 2026, 03:26:40 PMThis is why I don't get the US route system numbering.  A "spur" route should be somehow related to serving the interests of people traveling the main route it's a spur of.  It shouldn't be a completely separate corridor that (hopefully) intersects its parents (or another spur of the parent) at some point.  3dis are generally good with that.  3dus routes, on the other hand, are so bad at this that I struggle to think of any that ever fit those criteria.  And some, like US 202, travel such roundabout routes that I can't think of what the purpose of the route even existing in the first place even is.
There are a lot more US routes than Interstates, so a lot of 3dus routes would have been better numbered as 2dus, but we would have run out of 2dus routes before we got half way across the country. Think US-191 and US-395, both of which are very long, and neither of which contact their "parent". Also, I don't think US-202 is particularly "roundabout". On a macro scale, it's a fairly straight diagonal spur route.

While the width of the US almost requires some of the more major north-south US routes to use 3 digit designations, things aren't helped by having about 200 miles between US 31 and US 51 along with skipping numbers (37, 39, 47) and misallocating numbers (33, 35, 73, 79).  There's probably cases where some of the 2dus odd designations could have been made longer and replaced at least parts of the 3dus routes. US 202 looks like a candidate - part of it could have been taken over by a southern extension of US 7 or a northern extension US 13 (the former could also have lead to US 7 replacing US 301).

storm2k

Quote from: vdeane on July 26, 2026, 03:26:40 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on July 26, 2026, 11:42:09 AM
Quote from: Dough4872 on July 26, 2026, 11:05:35 AMI will never get how Pennsylvania had US highways like US 202 and the former US 309 when US 2 and US 9 never entered Pennsylvania.

That's not uncommon. US 220 enters Maryland, West Virginia, Virginia, and North Carolina even US 20 never goes near them. Same thing with US 522 in Maryland and Virginia. The 3-digit child just needed to touch its parent somewhere, and that could be hundreds of miles away in another state.
This is why I don't get the US route system numbering.  A "spur" route should be somehow related to serving the interests of people traveling the main route it's a spur of.  It shouldn't be a completely separate corridor that (hopefully) intersects its parents (or another spur of the parent) at some point.  3dis are generally good with that.  3dus routes, on the other hand, are so bad at this that I struggle to think of any that ever fit those criteria.  And some, like US 202, travel such roundabout routes that I can't think of what the purpose of the route even existing in the first place even is.

US Route numbering logic really doesn't make much sense in the slightest. Most of the various x22's stretch into other states where their parents don't venture (322 going through southern NJ nearly a hundred miles south of its parent that it doesn't touch in NJ). 209 doesn't even touch its parent in NY anymore (ending at 9W) but it stretches a good way into PA. Neither 2 nor 6 pass through NJ but 202 and 206 both stretch a decent way through NJ. Yet NJ also has 46, which runs completely within state borders and would be just fine as a state route instead of a US Route. Trying to make sense of this is enough to make your head hurt. I'd say this is where the interstate system at least tried to have better rules for numbering, but they're also not perfect and we know where congressional hubris has punched huge holes in the logic.

74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
Mob-Rule:  https://mob-rule.com/user/markkos1992

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Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

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