_______________ is overrated (road edition)

[Max Rockatansky]

All the Interstates listed in my signature. (Yes this includes I-57 Arkansas)!

Cancel I-11...

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

Not to agree with I-57 but there is a pretty dubious need for I-11 south of Kingman.  A widening of the existing two lane segments between I-40 and Wickenburg would be more than adequate.  I'd rather ADOT dump money into widening AZ 74 and making US 60 easier to get towards.

Between Las Vegas and Kingman, I-11 is absolutely a valid corridor of need.

[Scott5114]

All the Interstates listed in my signature. (Yes this includes I-57 Arkansas)!

Cancel I-11...

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

Not to agree with I-57 but there is a pretty dubious need for I-11 south of Kingman.  A widening of the existing two lane segments between I-40 and Wickenburg would be more than adequate.  I'd rather ADOT dump money into widening AZ 74 and making US 60 easier to get towards.

Between Las Vegas and Kingman, I-11 is absolutely a valid corridor of need.

I'll reserve judgement on that section of US 93 until I actually drive it (I have yet to come up with a reason to want to visit Phoenix), but I'd be a little concerned that it might devolve into what US 93 north of Kingman has—95% of the traffic having somewhere to be far away and gunning it at 80+ mph, and 5% of traffic randomly slamming on their brakes to whip left turns off to some rural outpost that doesn't even warrant a paved access road.

Interchanges are a safety measure as much as they are a capacity improvement.

[Max Rockatansky]

All the Interstates listed in my signature. (Yes this includes I-57 Arkansas)!

Cancel I-11...

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

Not to agree with I-57 but there is a pretty dubious need for I-11 south of Kingman.  A widening of the existing two lane segments between I-40 and Wickenburg would be more than adequate.  I'd rather ADOT dump money into widening AZ 74 and making US 60 easier to get towards.

Between Las Vegas and Kingman, I-11 is absolutely a valid corridor of need.

I'll reserve judgement on that section of US 93 until I actually drive it (I have yet to come up with a reason to want to visit Phoenix), but I'd be a little concerned that it might devolve into what US 93 north of Kingman has—95% of the traffic having somewhere to be far away and gunning it at 80+ mph, and 5% of traffic randomly slamming on their brakes to whip left turns off to some rural outpost that doesn't even warrant a paved access road.

Interchanges are a safety measure as much as they are a capacity improvement.

My perspective is probably always going to be skewed since I remember when the entirety of US 93 in Arizona was two lanes.  I still remember how much of a time saver it was when the highway expanded to four lanes north of the Joshua Tree Forest through the Burro Creek Wilderness.

It would be pretty amusing to see an interchange and full off ramp for Nothing:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/1h1g73505S

[Scott5114]

It would be pretty amusing to see an interchange and full off ramp for Nothing

It'd be the most accurate guide sign in Arizona!

[gonealookin]

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

Makes me think, if you had chosen I-70 --> I-15 as your route to Vegas your first impression of Arizona would have been pretty great while your first impression of Nevada would have sucked.  So you'd be in...hmmm, maybe Bullhead City?

Leaving the golf tournament in St. George, I had an opportunity to drive the Virgin River Gorge again just yesterday.  It's a very impressive and enjoyable stretch of highway, which I-15 from the mouth of the Gorge to Las Vegas is very much not.

[Scott5114]

Makes me think, if you had chosen I-70 --> I-15 as your route to Vegas your first impression of Arizona would have been pretty great while your first impression of Nevada would have sucked.  So you'd be in...hmmm, maybe Bullhead City?

Well, the whole reason for that trip was to scope out Vegas as a place to live, since my wife is in the casino industry. We were also trying to leave, ah...certain aspects of Oklahoma behind, aspects which Bullhead City has in spades. So even if we had considered the Laughlin market as a place to land, we probably would have gone for the west side of the river.

Also, while the Virgin River Gorge is very nice, I'm not sure it would hit the same on a trip where it was preceded by Glenwood Canyon.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

All the Interstates listed in my signature. (Yes this includes I-57 Arkansas)!

Cancel I-11...

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

OK, I never been to Nevada, OK, I can see why it's underrated, but, I still recognize it as US 93, and I will until it's completed.

[Max Rockatansky]

Makes me think, if you had chosen I-70 --> I-15 as your route to Vegas your first impression of Arizona would have been pretty great while your first impression of Nevada would have sucked.  So you'd be in...hmmm, maybe Bullhead City?

Well, the whole reason for that trip was to scope out Vegas as a place to live, since my wife is in the casino industry. We were also trying to leave, ah...certain aspects of Oklahoma behind, aspects which Bullhead City has in spades. So even if we had considered the Laughlin market as a place to land, we probably would have gone for the west side of the river.

Also, while the Virgin River Gorge is very nice, I'm not sure it would hit the same on a trip where it was preceded by Glenwood Canyon.

Laughlin and Bullhead have a lot of awesome road items too, they just aren't freeways.  AZ 68 and NV 163 are both pretty impressive expressway corridors.  Christmas Tree Pass and Oatman Highway are just a couple of the awesome back roads.

[Rothman]

All the Interstates listed in my signature. (Yes this includes I-57 Arkansas)!

Cancel I-11...

So how much time have you spent on I-11, anyway?

It was my first exposure to the state of Nevada (I drove in from Norman, Oklahoma using I-40→US 93→I-11). The first few miles of I-11 through the mountains along the Boulder City Bypass (which carried the I-11 designation from opening day) make a great first impression for the state. Within two years I ended up moving here.

If an Interstate can be so impressive it makes someone want to move there, I'd say there's a fair chance it's underrated, wouldn't you?

Not to agree with I-57 but there is a pretty dubious need for I-11 south of Kingman.  A widening of the existing two lane segments between I-40 and Wickenburg would be more than adequate.  I'd rather ADOT dump money into widening AZ 74 and making US 60 easier to get towards.

Between Las Vegas and Kingman, I-11 is absolutely a valid corridor of need.

I'll reserve judgement on that section of US 93 until I actually drive it (I have yet to come up with a reason to want to visit Phoenix)

I've liked my visits to Phoenix.  Neat more modern city than most of our American cities.

[gonealookin]

Laughlin and Bullhead have a lot of awesome road items too, they just aren't freeways.  AZ 68 and NV 163 are both pretty impressive expressway corridors.  Christmas Tree Pass and Oatman Highway are just a couple of the awesome back roads.

I'm in Lake Havasu City following the golf in St. George for my favorite cheap-ass beach vacation.  I've never been to Oatman, and while I'd normally return to Tahoe via I-40/CA 58/US 395, it's not that much longer to go through Kingman, Vegas and Tonopah so I'll drive the Oatman route on the way out this time.

[Rothman]

Laughlin and Bullhead have a lot of awesome road items too, they just aren't freeways.  AZ 68 and NV 163 are both pretty impressive expressway corridors.  Christmas Tree Pass and Oatman Highway are just a couple of the awesome back roads.

I'm in Lake Havasu City following the golf in St. George for my favorite cheap-ass beach vacation.  I've never been to Oatman, and while I'd normally return to Tahoe via I-40/CA 58/US 395, it's not that much longer to go through Kingman, Vegas and Tonopah so I'll drive the Oatman route on the way out this time.

When I was in high school, my father took my brother, sister and I on a cross-country escapade to meet up with his parents in Quartzsite while they were snowbirding with the other 100,000 octogenarians there.  We took a drive up to Lake Havasu and while I was sitting at a table by the London Bridge, a guy walked by that looked like a classmate of mine, but it couldn't have been, since it was Lake Havasu.

Came into school after the break and turns out that yep, it was my classmate, who had the same thoughts I did when he saw me down there.  We still laugh about it to this day.

[gonealookin]

I've liked my visits to Phoenix.  Neat more modern city than most of our American cities.

Yuck.  Sure it's "modern" because it's all been built in the last half-century.  The Phoenix area is the worst example of desert sprawl due to low cost of land you're ever going to see.

The area was relatively compact when I first went there in the 1970s.  I-17 was complete and connected to I-10, which had a little dead-end spur toward downtown which ended west of the airport.  Those were the only freeways (maybe part of US 60 toward Mesa too?  I don't specifically recall that one); I-10 was still years from being completed from the airport through the downtown area and west past Goodyear.  To go from Phoenix toward LA you had to drive an interminable "Temporary Interstate 10" which was a four-lane farm road with many grade-level intersections until you finally reached freeway probably 25 miles west of downtown Phoenix.

Now you have Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303 and the other freeways.  It has spread out absurdly and I bet "time spent in a car per capita" is the highest of any metropolitan area in the US.  There's going to be a point later in this century where they have an Armageddon over the lack of water and it's because of the insanely uncontrolled growth they've done over the last several decades.

[Rothman]

I've liked my visits to Phoenix.  Neat more modern city than most of our American cities.

Yuck.  Sure it's "modern" because it's all been built in the last half-century.  The Phoenix area is the worst example of desert sprawl due to low cost of land you're ever going to see.

The area was relatively compact when I first went there in the 1970s.  I-17 was complete and connected to I-10, which had a little dead-end spur toward downtown which ended west of the airport.  Those were the only freeways (maybe part of US 60 toward Mesa too?  I don't specifically recall that one); I-10 was still years from being completed from the airport through the downtown area and west past Goodyear.  To go from Phoenix toward LA you had to drive an interminable "Temporary Interstate 10" which was a four-lane farm road with many grade-level intersections until you finally reached freeway probably 25 miles west of downtown Phoenix.

Now you have Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303 and the other freeways.  It has spread out absurdly and I bet "time spent in a car per capita" is the highest of any metropolitan area in the US.  There's going to be a point later in this century where they have an Armageddon over the lack of water and it's because of the insanely uncontrolled growth they've done over the last several decades.

Heh.  There's more to Phoenix than just the highways.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Phoenix Metro area was fine at 3,000,000 residents.  People started moving there in droves and it began to kind of suck.  I love Arizona but I have no desire to reside in Phoenix again.

Then again, what areas actually stay nice after population booms?  I feel as though Fresno is experiencing the same phenomenon currently, just more slowly.  At least we'll have solid equity here that will only increase with time.

[kphoger]

I never been to Nevada, OK

Nevada is in Missouri, not Oklahoma.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

I never been to Nevada, OK

Nevada is in Missouri, not Oklahoma.

[Scott5114]

OK, I never been to Nevada, OK, I can see why it's underrated, but, I still recognize it as US 93, and I will until it's completed.

What difference worth a hill of beans does you recognizing it matter to anyone? Is the opinion of someone who's never been to Nevada supposed to affect the highway designations here?

I'll go with what NDOT says, thanks.

Laughlin and Bullhead have a lot of awesome road items too, they just aren't freeways.  AZ 68 and NV 163 are both pretty impressive expressway corridors.  Christmas Tree Pass and Oatman Highway are just a couple of the awesome back roads.

AZ 68 and NV 163 are pretty neat. Already checked those off my list. Oatman Highway is a "maybe some day when I'm in the area anyway and I don't have my wife in the car". I also want to get the Peach Springs alignment of US 66—vaguely considered it on my recent trip but after the rotten luck I was having with bridges being closed on that trip it felt too much like pushing my luck.

I've liked my visits to Phoenix.  Neat more modern city than most of our American cities.

I don't have feelings about it one way or another given that I've never been there, but without a specific reason to go there, like an event, it would be really weird to choose to explore it before one of the other nearby cities I haven't been to, like, you know. Los Angeles. San Francisco.

[gonealookin]

The Phoenix Metro area was fine at 3,000,000 residents.  People started moving there in droves and it began to kind of suck.  I love Arizona but I have no desire to reside in Phoenix again.

Then again, what areas actually stay nice after population booms?  I feel as though Fresno is experiencing the same phenomenon currently, just more slowly.  At least we'll have solid equity here that will only increase with time.

That was my thought about the St. George area as well.  It used to be an attractive area in the desert sense with a number of small towns separated by a few miles.  Now the whole thing has spread out and merged so it's too much like Scottsdale, AZ.

Once us Boomers discover a place and turn it into a retirement haven, it's time to look elsewhere.  I need to settle on a place to live out my final years, as Tahoe isn't very practical when physical issues start presenting challenges, and it won't be the desert, Florida or any Boomer-favored Sun Belt location.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Phoenix Metro area was fine at 3,000,000 residents.  People started moving there in droves and it began to kind of suck.  I love Arizona but I have no desire to reside in Phoenix again.

Then again, what areas actually stay nice after population booms?  I feel as though Fresno is experiencing the same phenomenon currently, just more slowly.  At least we'll have solid equity here that will only increase with time.

That was my thought about the St. George area as well.  It used to be an attractive area in the desert sense with a number of small towns separated by a few miles.  Now the whole thing has spread out and merged so it's too much like Scottsdale, AZ.

Once us Boomers discover a place and turn it into a retirement haven, it's time to look elsewhere.  I need to settle on a place to live out my final years, as Tahoe isn't very practical when physical issues start presenting challenges, and it won't be the desert, Florida or any Boomer-favored Sun Belt location.

Amusingly my brother moved from Boise to St. George.  He was a long term Phoenix resident and now seems to be chasing all the trendy places to relocate to.

[SkyPesos]

Route 66. Digging into OP's name a bit, but also this year I've mainly seen US 66 being celebrated for the 100th anniversary when it no longer exists, while many other US routes that still exist and have as expansive as a history (if not more) are ignored.

[Max Rockatansky]

Route 66. Digging into OP's name a bit, but also this year I've mainly seen US 66 being celebrated for the 100th anniversary when it no longer exists, while many other US routes that still exist and have as expansive as a history (if not more) are ignored.

66 only ever matched the hype between Santa Fe and Cajon Pass.  Even then most of the lore and legacy bits were inherited from the National Old Trails Road.  Oatman Highway is one of the few places where the history is more 66 versus the NOTR.

Now where 66 got interesting from a historical perspective is all the weird jumping around it did at the western terminus.  One of my all-time favorite things that I dug out of the AASHTO database was finding out that 66 ended at Fletcher Drive/San Fernando Road instead of 7th and Broadway.  The 66 folks were incorrectly using the NOTR terminus in downtown Los Angeles for decades.

[Scott5114]

66 only ever matched the hype between Santa Fe and Cajon Pass.  Even then most of the lore and legacy bits were inherited from the National Old Trails Road.  Oatman Highway is one of the few places where the history is more 66 versus the NOTR.

While the Oklahoma portion's history isn't all that interesting (despite not being tied to the NOTR in any way), it's got a lot of the chintzy tourist trap stuff still intact. Plus because much of it was bypassed by a toll road, it's still on the state system, so one can enjoy the nostalgia bait without playing in the World Series of Bridge Out that one runs into in New Mexico. (In fact, many of the original truss bridges are still in service, and there's the fun sleight of hand ODOT did by replacing that extra long pony truss with a girder but stapling the old ponies to the side to make it still feel like you're on the original bridge.)

I would say it's still overrated, but its proper rating is still higher than, say, US 56 or US 77 or something like that.

[Max Rockatansky]

66 only ever matched the hype between Santa Fe and Cajon Pass.  Even then most of the lore and legacy bits were inherited from the National Old Trails Road.  Oatman Highway is one of the few places where the history is more 66 versus the NOTR.

While the Oklahoma portion's history isn't all that interesting (despite not being tied to the NOTR in any way), it's got a lot of the chintzy tourist trap stuff still intact. Plus because much of it was bypassed by a toll road, it's still on the state system, so one can enjoy the nostalgia bait without playing in the World Series of Bridge Out that one runs into in New Mexico. (In fact, many of the original truss bridges are still in service, and there's the fun sleight of hand ODOT did by replacing that extra long pony truss with a girder but stapling the old ponies to the side to make it still feel like you're on the original bridge.)

I would say it's still overrated, but its proper rating is still higher than, say, US 56 or US 77 or something like that.

From what I can surmise US 101 seems to have the second largest following after 66.  I'm probably the one who is most surprised that my super active 101 history Facebook group has over 20,000 members. 

Others that have a decent following seem to be 99, 6, 40, 20 and 1.

[Scott5114]

66 only ever matched the hype between Santa Fe and Cajon Pass.  Even then most of the lore and legacy bits were inherited from the National Old Trails Road.  Oatman Highway is one of the few places where the history is more 66 versus the NOTR.

While the Oklahoma portion's history isn't all that interesting (despite not being tied to the NOTR in any way), it's got a lot of the chintzy tourist trap stuff still intact. Plus because much of it was bypassed by a toll road, it's still on the state system, so one can enjoy the nostalgia bait without playing in the World Series of Bridge Out that one runs into in New Mexico. (In fact, many of the original truss bridges are still in service, and there's the fun sleight of hand ODOT did by replacing that extra long pony truss with a girder but stapling the old ponies to the side to make it still feel like you're on the original bridge.)

I would say it's still overrated, but its proper rating is still higher than, say, US 56 or US 77 or something like that.

From what I can surmise US 101 seems to have the second largest following after 66.  I'm probably the one who is most surprised that my super active 101 history Facebook group has over 20,000 members. 

Others that have a decent following seem to be 99, 6, 40, 20 and 1.

I'm surprised that there's not more of one for 91, given *gestures wildly at the Nevada portion*

[Max Rockatansky]

66 only ever matched the hype between Santa Fe and Cajon Pass.  Even then most of the lore and legacy bits were inherited from the National Old Trails Road.  Oatman Highway is one of the few places where the history is more 66 versus the NOTR.

While the Oklahoma portion's history isn't all that interesting (despite not being tied to the NOTR in any way), it's got a lot of the chintzy tourist trap stuff still intact. Plus because much of it was bypassed by a toll road, it's still on the state system, so one can enjoy the nostalgia bait without playing in the World Series of Bridge Out that one runs into in New Mexico. (In fact, many of the original truss bridges are still in service, and there's the fun sleight of hand ODOT did by replacing that extra long pony truss with a girder but stapling the old ponies to the side to make it still feel like you're on the original bridge.)

I would say it's still overrated, but its proper rating is still higher than, say, US 56 or US 77 or something like that.

From what I can surmise US 101 seems to have the second largest following after 66.  I'm probably the one who is most surprised that my super active 101 history Facebook group has over 20,000 members. 

Others that have a decent following seem to be 99, 6, 40, 20 and 1.

I'm surprised that there's not more of one for 91, given *gestures wildly at the Nevada portion*

Sadly the one pop culture reference I recall for US 91 was the festival name at Mandalay Bay.  The Route 91 Harvest even used a fairly decent US Route graphic in the logo. 

91 is one of my favorite US Route corridors to do research on.  There was a lot of previously unknown items to find from Barstow northward.