GM Announces 6 more recalls

[SteveG1988]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101793176#.

[ET21]

May as well recall every GM vehicle at this rate

[jakeroot]

I wish things like this didn't hurt their performance, though it inevitably does. People always trail off about how they should have done it right the first time, but there's very few cars out there that are issue-free their whole lifetime.

[DaBigE]

I wish things like this didn't hurt their performance, though it inevitably does. People always trail off about how they should have done it right the first time, but there's very few cars out there that are issue-free their whole lifetime.

Generally, I would agree. However, two things especially bother me with the GM situation:
1) The amount of time that elapsed (from problem discovery to recall action)
2) How much was swept under the rug/endless finger pointing

At least from my perspective, it also seems like there is a media bias as well. I remember seeing a recall for a Ford product being front-page (main section) material, yet one for Toyota was buried in the business section.

[Billy F 1988]

If GM quits building crappy vehicles that break down more often than others, these recalls wouldn't be taking place. It just pisses me off that GM would find themselves in the belief that their vehicles were built to accomodate those who purchase them only to find out some winging-blinging dohickey breaks down and the whole car or truck has to be rehashed to fix the problem. Look at what's happening to the Corvette, my favorite car of course. There are numerous recalls for them. Impalas are being recalled, Silverados, Tahoes, Suburbans, you name it, there are recalls for those. Cadillac has a few, Buick has some, even GMC. Why so many in such a short period of time? Answer, crappy business antics, and many other reasons I can't think of at the moment. If these GM vehicles are that bad, Ford or Chrysler, LLC may as well just buy all the vehicles and make them better, but oh, wait. That'd piss off the Camaro and Corvette fans because it doesn't have the bowtie any longer. Well boo hoo! GM needs to stop building crappy vehicles that break more than Ford or Chrysler's lineup of vehicles. I'm just fortunate to be driving a Ford product and I'm surprised there hasn't been a recall yet for 2001-2003 Escorts from Ford. The one I'm driving is an '02. Twelve years old and still puttering along. No problems.

[ZLoth]

I think GM has recalled more cars this past year than they manufactured in the past six.

[Billy F 1988]

I wish there was a like button for this comment because you are right on the money. For the fact that more vehicles have been recalled by GM than they were manufactured infuriates me and it just goes to show why I stick with FoMoCo products, or Chrysler products, whichever I end up driving the next time around. Right now my little Escort is running like a champion. Albeit, some panels are falling off and may need some silicone bondo, but other than that, it hasn't been recalled yet. To my knowledge, I haven't heard of any recall from Ford regarding the 2001-2003 Escorts, and that's good so far. I'm just thankful I'm not driving a Crapibu, a Crape Carlo, a Craperado, or any craptastic shitpiece General Motors vehicle at present.

[jakeroot]

Here's Consumer Report's "Most Unreliable Car Brands" for 2013:

1. Mini

2. Lincoln

3. Ford

4. Cadillac

5. Dodge

6. Jeep

7. Nissan

8. Hyundai

9. Volkswagen

10. Ram

All I see for GM is Cadillac. Which is unfortunate because I think their current line-up is rather smashing.

[DaBigE]

Here's Consumer Report's "Most Unreliable Car Brands" for 2013:

1. Mini

2. Lincoln

3. Ford

4. Cadillac

5. Dodge

6. Jeep

7. Nissan

8. Hyundai

9. Volkswagen

10. Ram

Consumer Reports...enough said right there. One of their car buying guides gave the Corvette and Mustang lower ratings due to the fact they didn't make good "family cars" (small backseat, very small trunk). DUH...they were never meant to be family-haulers.

Regarding that list, why are Ram and Dodge listed separately? I know Ford took a hit from CR because of software bugs in their My Ford Touch system...which is a stretch to me since the system is a "bell/whistle", not a requirement to get you from A to B.

[jakeroot]

Regarding that list, why are Ram and Dodge listed separately? I know Ford took a hit from CR because of software bugs in their My Ford Touch system...which is a stretch to me since the system is a "bell/whistle", not a requirement to get you from A to B.

Ram and Dodge are like Chevrolet and Buick. Both owned by the same company (Fiat vs GM) but legally they aren't the same company anymore.

As far as the MyFord Touch shit, anything that makes you have to return the car to the shop for repair lowers the reliability of the car.

MyFord Touch is something you interact with on a consistent basis. It HAS to work. People have had to pull over and restart their car to get the things responding again. That should never have to happen.

From the article:

When it comes to Ford and its luxury brand, Lincoln, Fisher says the brand appears to have tried to have made too many changes at once. The magazine says of the 31 Ford models in its survey, only one was above average, the F-150 pickup with a 3.7-liter V-6 engine. Ford vehicles took a hit for confusing infotainment systems, its MyFord Touch with Sync, a problem that the company has acknowledged and said is fixing.

[JREwing78]

Here's Consumer Report's "Most Unreliable Car Brands" for 2013:

1. Mini

2. Lincoln

3. Ford

4. Cadillac

5. Dodge

6. Jeep

7. Nissan

8. Hyundai

9. Volkswagen

10. Ram

Consumer Reports...enough said right there. One of their car buying guides gave the Corvette and Mustang lower ratings due to the fact they didn't make good "family cars" (small backseat, very small trunk). DUH...they were never meant to be family-haulers.

You're confusing their road-test evaluations (which can be occasionally ridiculous) with their reliability rankings. The reliability rankings are the result of a massive survey of their subscribers, who report what items have necessitated repair work over the past year. It's easily the best source of information about how a car should hold up that's out there, and in my experience has been very accurate.

GM trucks in general are solid goods. GM has certainly earned its reputation with its cars though. They struggle with consistently producing quality cars that hold up over time, usually because the bean counters are so obsessed with short-term profits. Get burned enough times, and even die-hard Detroit buyers can't help but eye an Accord or Camry next time instead of a Malibu or an Impala.

[SP Cook]

CR is not an objective orginization.  It has a point of view and that if fine, but its not the same as statistical analysis of any subject

Anyway, back to GM.  I would NEVER consider buying any product of the so-called American (worldwide companies making and selling cars around the world which happened to be founded in the distant past in the US) product.  Simply too low in quality.  Rather buy so-called foreign (worldwide companies making and selling cars around the world which happend to be founded in the distant past elsewhere).  The "big 3" simply do not care about me, the customer.  Not management, not labor, no one there cares.

[PHLBOS]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a recall yet for 2001-2003 Escorts from Ford. The one I'm driving is an '02. Twelve years old and still puttering along. No problems.

That's partly because that Escort platform (the sedan was fleet-only for 2001 and dropped after that model year; the (Escort) ZX2 coupe existed for 2002-2003) was already around for several years (styling dates back to 1997) and hardly changed at all during its run.  One typical advantage of an older-designed platform is that most of the so-called first-year bugs/issues were long since addressed/sorted out.

Side bar: My mother has a 2001 Escort, a former-Enterprise rental, and has no real issues with it either.

[Billy F 1988]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a recall yet for 2001-2003 Escorts from Ford. The one I'm driving is an '02. Twelve years old and still puttering along. No problems.

That's partly because that Escort platform (the sedan was fleet-only for 2001 and dropped after that model year; the (Escort) ZX2 coupe existed for 2002-2003) was already around for several years (styling dates back to 1997) and hardly changed at all during its run.  One typical advantage of an older-designed platform is that most of the so-called first-year bugs/issues were long since addressed/sorted out.

Side bar: My mother has a 2001 Escort, a former-Enterprise rental, and has no real issues with it either.

So it pays to have a reliable car like what your mother drives or what I drive. See, I believe Ford and Chrysler have recalled less vehicles than GM in the past 15 years. The reason GM has recalled so many, maybe as much as 10 to 15 million within the last 15 years or so, is the fact that they are a) outsourcing components from somewhere other than USA, b) some people were either killed or injured in some form of accident related to a faulty component. Look at what happened to the early Toyota Prius with the throttle situation. Saturn recalled some Auras because of some willy nilly transmission cable that won't allow you to shift from drive to park if the cable is broken possibly due to abuse or corosion. Dodge and Chrysler just recalled some Caravans and T&C minivans because of a delay in the side curtain airbags.

Just to add insult to injury, a Forbes.com report suggesets 20 million GM vehicles have been recalled and, get this, there could be a severe fine issued to General Motors by the U.S. Department of Transportation. They've already paid a huge fine to them, but I believe this one will be more huge if GM doesn't get their shit together NOW and fix the problem vehicles.

What infuriates me is that how could 1 million dollars console families of loved ones killed or injured in ignition related accidents? That's what GM was offering, and if I was with a family of someone who died in a GM built car because of some ignition problem, I don't think 1 million dollars is going to do anything. I'd tell GM to stick it up their you-know-what as far as it can go because 1 million dollars for ignition related claims just doesn't hold water to me.

And what really pisses me off is that it's said that GM's reputation can be quickly recovered. Bullshit. Plain and simple. I'm not giving General Motors, especially the bitch that runs the company ANY credibility or respect AT ALL! The fact that these recalls are occurring more often from this manufacturer is just somethng else. You can't have this kind of issue happening and tell me "our reputation will recover quickly". That's bullshit in itself. The more recalls General Motors issues, the less people will buy their products and the lesser people will trust them and they will move on to another product from, let's say, Ford or Mercury, or something like Dodge or Chrysler that they believe WILL be a reliable vehicle. I just think GM is shittastic bucket of fuck the way this is going.

[PHLBOS]

So it pays to have a reliable car like what your mother drives or what I drive.

In our eyes, yes; in the eyes of the manufacturer or magazine reviewer (the latter is known to slam a vehicle for having an old or antiquated desgin despite its reliability), not so much.  It should be noted that the early years of the Focus, the car that ultimately replaced both the Escort and the Contour, had its share of recall issues.

Many of the newer-design Ford models on the market today, have had their share of recalls recently... not including the associated MyTouch issues.

Look at what happened to the early Toyota Prius with the throttle situation.

Actually, the Toyota recall(s) are probably the one case where such didn't damage its reputation as much as one would think.  At the time of the recall, my brother spoke w/a Toyota dealer in MA and he stated that the recall was the best thing to happen to them saleswise.  Many were trading in their old recalled Toyota models for new Toyota models; very strange.  In contrast, it took Audi roughly 15 to 20 years to recover in terms of US sales following their issues from the mid-80s (that only involved one model equipped one way).

The more recalls General Motors issues, the less people will buy their products and the lesser people will trust them and they will move on to another product from, let's say, Ford or Mercury, or something like Dodge or Chrysler that they believe WILL be a reliable vehicle.

In terms of new cars, Mercury (w/its classic Grand Marquis) hasn't been around since 2010-2011.

[DaBigE]

Look at what happened to the early Toyota Prius with the throttle situation.

Actually, the Toyota recall(s) are probably the one case where such didn't damage its reputation as much as one would think.  At the time of the recall, my brother spoke w/a Toyota dealer in MA and he stated that the recall was the best thing to happen to them saleswise.  Many were trading in their old recalled Toyota models for new Toyota models; very strange.

I agree, very strange. There are many Toyota owners I tend to equate to Apple users with how loyally they follow, no matter what happens. In the end, it's all about how good your PR department is and how desperate the media is for a story on a given day. No matter what brand loyalists tell you, every manufacturer makes a lemon from time to time...no production line is flawless.

I used to own a first-generation US Ford Focus. At one point I think it held the recall crown. The big difference, all the recalls came out in short order, within the first 2-3 years I owned the car. Other than the typical wear and tear items, it was a damn-reliable and problem-free car for me until I sold it a few years ago. If I didn't want a bit more space for hauling stuff, I'd still have that car today.

In contrast, it took Audi roughly 15 to 20 years to recover in terms of US sales following their issues from the mid-80s (that only involved one model equipped one way).

In some cases Ford has never recovered from the Pinto fiasco. The Pinto was the first reference some made when Ford had recall issues with the current generation Escape and potential engine fires.

[formulanone]

I agree, very strange. There are many Toyota owners I tend to equate to Apple users with how loyally they follow, no matter what happens. In the end, it's all about how good your PR department is and how desperate the media is for a story on a given day. No matter what brand loyalists tell you, every manufacturer makes a lemon from time to time...no production line is flawless.

Having gone through that at the dealerships myself, probably 90-95% of my customers shrugged their shoulders...after all, they either didn't have the problem, the dealer had the parts in stock when the campaign/recall is declared, and they are usually equipped with staff to deal with their issues. Even out of that 5-10%, most of those would get over it once they realized every car manufacturer has some sort of recall, although many of them had no actual incidents occur in the field.

You'd get a few who thought they had related issues, but then they also had zero verification nor data to back it up. Or, couldn't figure out how to read the manual or program their radio stations. But mostly, they'd buy another one because it didn't have expensive problems over a 5-7 year span, and it mostly drives like the appliance they expect it should be. Doesn't matter, even NASA couldn't even find an unintended acceleration problem.

In some cases Ford has never recovered from the Pinto fiasco. The Pinto was the first reference some made when Ford had recall issues with the current generation Escape and potential engine fires.

Let's not forget that most members of media who are not in the automotive sector nor have any passion for it would just pull whatever thing resonates with the Gamma/Delta-Skilled Averages With Eighth Grade Reading Level, those who are inspired by an hour of clickbait per day, or those only objectively watch and regurgitate Our News, while pledging allegiance either for, or against, The President. The same goes with just about any technological medium; the average news writer has little to no clue on computers, internet connectivity, science, engineering, so just dumb it down enough to the article isn't too lengthy nor takes more than 30 seconds to explain. To be fair, the last probably is not helped by a constantly-depleted staff who has to gather 40 hours' worth of news in a 24-hour cycle, and beat the Other News Conglomerate to the punch.

To be honest, I'm not a big GM fan, but engineering which continually faced budget restrictions and deadlines from parts suppliers, for whom they did not want to publicly expose, for fear of breaking a 60-year-old alliance, also muddies things a bit. It's easy to blame the union worker, but the fact is, they just install the parts. The part was defective, not the installation method. (Although, that 120 screws in that other recall might be because of that.) This planning dated back over a decade ago, so it's way before it became Government Motors. This is a massive wake-up call for a lot of the multi-layered management structure that existed at GM to take a permanent vacation, and stop fostering a the fear from getting fired, because they have to mention that something isn't right from the start.

[bugo]

anti-GM malarkey

My 1998 Chevrolet Cavalier has 202,000 miles on it and is still running strong. 

[bugo]

CR, which is legendarily anti-American car, rated the new Chevrolet Impala as the best sedan they have ever tested.

[bugo]

Look at what happened to the early Toyota Prius with the throttle situation.

Actually, the Toyota recall(s) are probably the one case where such didn't damage its reputation as much as one would think.  At the time of the recall, my brother spoke w/a Toyota dealer in MA and he stated that the recall was the best thing to happen to them saleswise.  Many were trading in their old recalled Toyota models for new Toyota models; very strange.

I agree, very strange. There are many Toyota owners I tend to equate to Apple users with how loyally they follow, no matter what happens. In the end, it's all about how good your PR department is and how desperate the media is for a story on a given day. No matter what brand loyalists tell you, every manufacturer makes a lemon from time to time...no production line is flawless.

Toyota owners are the most brainwashed group in the world.  They think their cars' exhaust fumes don't stink, and they think their cars are the best cars made anywhere on the planet.  The company is still coasting on the "reliability" issue when 99% of the cars built today (even Maseratis) are reliable.  They once built good cars, but now their cars are average or below.  I've had the "pleasure" of driving a pair of late model Corollas and hated both of them.  I drove one of them all over town, and every time I hit a bump the car would swerve into the other lane.  There was nothing "wrong" with this car (except for the "Toyota" badge), it was just poorly engineered.  The other Toyota I drove was just as bad.  My 15 year old Cavalier drives better, handles better, has a much better ride, more power, and better all around performance.  As far as Toyota's "reliability" reputation, my sister bought a Camry and it broke down within a month.  She traded it for a Ford Mustang and had no problems with it at all.  I drove a 1992 Toyota MR2 which was a great car: it handled as well as just about any car I've ever driven (partially because of its mid engined layout) but wasn't very practical, so I didn't buy it (I bought a Mazda-engineered Ford Probe instead.)  It's sad how far Toyota has fallen.  Part of it is poor engineering, part of it is a lack of quality, and part of it is because they have been decontented to save a few bucks.

[jakeroot]

Look at what happened to the early Toyota Prius with the throttle situation.

Actually, the Toyota recall(s) are probably the one case where such didn't damage its reputation as much as one would think.  At the time of the recall, my brother spoke w/a Toyota dealer in MA and he stated that the recall was the best thing to happen to them saleswise.  Many were trading in their old recalled Toyota models for new Toyota models; very strange.

I agree, very strange. There are many Toyota owners I tend to equate to Apple users with how loyally they follow, no matter what happens. In the end, it's all about how good your PR department is and how desperate the media is for a story on a given day. No matter what brand loyalists tell you, every manufacturer makes a lemon from time to time...no production line is flawless.

Toyota owners are the most brainwashed group in the world.  They think their cars' exhaust fumes don't stink, and they think their cars are the best cars made anywhere on the planet.  The company is still coasting on the "reliability" issue when 99% of the cars built today (even Maseratis) are reliable.  They once built good cars, but now their cars are average or below.  I've had the "pleasure" of driving a pair of late model Corollas and hated both of them.  I drove one of them all over town, and every time I hit a bump the car would swerve into the other lane.  There was nothing "wrong" with this car (except for the "Toyota" badge), it was just poorly engineered.  The other Toyota I drove was just as bad.  My 15 year old Cavalier drives better, handles better, has a much better ride, more power, and better all around performance.  As far as Toyota's "reliability" reputation, my sister bought a Camry and it broke down within a month.  She traded it for a Ford Mustang and had no problems with it at all.  I drove a 1992 Toyota MR2 which was a great car: it handled as well as just about any car I've ever driven (partially because of its mid engined layout) but wasn't very practical, so I didn't buy it (I bought a Mazda-engineered Ford Probe instead.)  It's sad how far Toyota has fallen.  Part of it is poor engineering, part of it is a lack of quality, and part of it is because they have been decontented to save a few bucks.

My father has purchased Toyotas since at least 1997. I can attest to the recent engineering faults...the newer models (since about 07) seem really cheap. That said, the only Toyota we have ever owned that had reliability issues was an '03 Avalon which got lemon-law'd. He drives a Camry now, which has a very quite interior even on the freeway and very good interior quality. He drove a Carolla (2011) before and it was just shit. The torque steer was unbelievably bad. Dangerous in fact.

I think Lexus is still right at the top for reliability and quality, though.

[bugo]

I saw a Toyota ad tonight where they were bragging that their cars would go 100,000 miles.  Uh, virtually all cars will go way over 100K and have for decades.  The 100K ceiling was something to worry about in the '70s, not today.  Have they really fallen this far?  Their rival, Honda, still makes high quality cars.  Toyota has decontented and engineered all of the quality out of their vehicles.

[DaBigE]

I saw a Toyota ad tonight where they were bragging that their cars would go 100,000 miles.  Uh, virtually all cars will go way over 100K and have for decades.  The 100K ceiling was something to worry about in the '70s, not today.  Have they really fallen this far?  Their rival, Honda, still makes high quality cars.  Toyota has decontented and engineered all of the quality out of their vehicles.

Yet another Toyota PR gem for the sheeple. Did I forget to mention the Toyota lady annoys the hell out of me?

My family hasn't ever owned a car that has failed to eclipse the 100K mile mark. ANY car, with regular upkeep/maintenance will go >100K miles.

[SP Cook]

Having been responsible for several fleets of vehicles in various jobs over the years, I would not expect a GM vehicle to make it to 100K.  Far too low in quality.  The more complex the vehicle, the more things there are that will probably break down.  And management doesn't care, the dealers don't care, labor doesn't care.    Fords and Mopars are slightly better, but also far below "foreign" levels.

The last piece of the General's garbage I personally ever had (sort of) was my mother's last Caddy.  She was a long time Caddy loyalist.  Hanger queen.  In the shop over two dozen times in 18 months.  Garbage.  (and the previous Caddy was garbage, as was the one before).  It was simply too complex of a device for GM to build.  Complained to the service manager and he laughed at me and said "what did you expect?" 

Too many parts and functions just mean too many things to fall off.  Finally she totalled it (steering failure, after the steering had be "repaired" for the third time three days earlier).  She wasn't hurt and I took her and State Farm's check straight to the Lexus lot.  Bought a car that outlasted her.  Never repaired.  Never needed to be.  Because I got, from Toyota, what I, the customer, deserve and expect.  A properly built automobile that works properly.  GM lacks the ability (or more properly, insulated from the Market, the desire) to build one.

[bugo]

Having been responsible for several fleets of vehicles in various jobs over the years, I would not expect a GM vehicle to make it to 100K.  Far too low in quality.  The more complex the vehicle, the more things there are that will probably break down.  And management doesn't care, the dealers don't care, labor doesn't care.    Fords and Mopars are slightly better, but also far below "foreign" levels.

The last piece of the General's garbage I personally ever had (sort of) was my mother's last Caddy.  She was a long time Caddy loyalist.  Hanger queen.  In the shop over two dozen times in 18 months.  Garbage.  (and the previous Caddy was garbage, as was the one before).  It was simply too complex of a device for GM to build.  Complained to the service manager and he laughed at me and said "what did you expect?" 

Too many parts and functions just mean too many things to fall off.  Finally she totalled it (steering failure, after the steering had be "repaired" for the third time three days earlier).  She wasn't hurt and I took her and State Farm's check straight to the Lexus lot.  Bought a car that outlasted her.  Never repaired.  Never needed to be.  Because I got, from Toyota, what I, the customer, deserve and expect.  A properly built automobile that works properly.  GM lacks the ability (or more properly, insulated from the Market, the desire) to build one.

Tell that to my Cavalier, which has 202,xxx on it and the engine runs as well as it did when it came off the showroom floor.  It's had a few wear and tear items replaced (alternator, etc) but that is to be expected on a 16 year old car with 200K on it.  You're just using typical conservative hyperbole. 

And the fact that you think Chryslers are more reliable than GM cars invalidates anything you ever have and ever will say.  My sister had two engines put in her Neon when my Cavalier, one year newer, is still running on the same engine that was put in it in Michigan in 1998.  Her Grand Cherokee is better, but it's largely a Mercedes.  I've heard horror stories about Chryslers and although I like(d) some of their cars (before the Fiat takeover) I will just admire them from afar.  Do you really think the Chrysler Sebring is a better car than the Chevy Malibu?

Remember the old adage: GM cars run badly longer than most cars run at all.