gas stations

[agentsteel53]

I have had the amazing luck of the one time I left a pump unattended, its automatic shutoff didn't work!  I was sitting in the car, reading the map, and starting to think "this is surely taking a long time!" and next thing you know, I've salted the earth with six gallons of gasoline.  Note to self, never leave the pump unattended!

Jerry cans, indeed you have to fill those manually.  Luckily their capacity is well-known, and usually they are empty when they need filling, so filling them by reading the gauge is easy.

[agentsteel53]

and regarding gas gauges - they are the farthest thing from being linear, and therefore quite difficult to correlate with actual quantity of gas in the tank.  When the gauge reads "full", the tank itself is usually 2-3 gallons, if not more, away from capacity.  Similarly, when it reads "empty", it still has about 1-2 gallons.

Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way.  Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.

[Bryant5493]

Re: agentsteel53's posts -- unattended pump/gas gauge

Wow! Wasted money. I know you were peeved. Heck, I know would've been.

----

I've noticed the thing about gas gauges. Mine looks one way when the car's turned on. But, when I I relase the brake and start to drive, the gauge drops down a few pegs.


Be well,

Bryant

[Truvelo]

To add to Jonathons comments - it's common over here (UK) to hear clicking sounds at gas stations as people try to defeat the backpressure and get that last drop of fuel into their tanks. This is not only pointless but highly dangerous as there's been countless incidents where excess diesel has spilled onto the road because a trucker has overfilled his tank. Along comes a biker who then spins off around a bend or roundabout because of the diesel spillage and results in serious injury or death.

A difference I've seen between UK and US nozzles is the US ones have a rubbery shield around the nozzle which appears to make the filler cap airtight. UK ones don't have this so I wonder if the shutoff systems used in both countries is different.

[Bryant5493]

^^ Dang!

Be well,

Bryant

[Chris]

Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way.  Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.

Yeah this happens with European cars too. I can do 220 miles with half a tank of diesel, and it gets nearly empty in another 100 miles. Then I pump, and it turns out the tank was only 2/3rd empty. Those gauges suck... I usually watch the trip odometer. (My tank only has a 13 gallon capacity)

A difference I've seen between UK and US nozzles is the US ones have a rubbery shield around the nozzle which appears to make the filler cap airtight. UK ones don't have this so I wonder if the shutoff systems used in both countries is different.

I have seen this in some European countries too.

[agentsteel53]

and in case you're wondering what happens when a gas pump overflows, the attendants definitely have a cleanup procedure and materials readily at hand.  Luckily this was during the day ... for nighttime, there tends to be a phone number posted to call in case of a spill.  (But don't call using your cell phone, we know those can throw sparks that can cause your spilled gas to ignite in a horrible, horrible inferno that will cause all airplanes in a 50 mile radius to turn into pumpkins!)

[Bryant5493]

^^


Yeah, I've noticed signs denoting not to use cellular devices or get back in your car while pumping gas, because of spontaneous combustion from static electricity.


Be well,

Bryant

[Chris]

Is that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?

I sometimes get statically charged when getting out of the car, and I have to touch the exterior first before pumping.

[agentsteel53]

I always grab the car exterior first when getting out, and sometimes it's quite the shock!  The Pontiac G6 seems extra susceptible to this behavior.

[Bryant5493]

Is that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?

I don't know. I've used my cell phone a few times while pumping, and I'm still here. So...


Be well,

Bryant

[mightyace]

Is that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?

I sometimes get statically charged when getting out of the car, and I have to touch the exterior first before pumping.

The cell phone thing is an urban legend.

The "Mythbusters" show on Discovery Channel tested this and they couldn't make a cell phone start a fire in a 1 or 2 cubic yard enclosure saturated with gasoline fumes.

Now, static charge from yourself, I think it's possible but still a remote possibility.

[J N Winkler]

Re. pump collars, those are actually vapor-catchers.  The flat collars tend to be used in states which have lax vapor-catching requirements.  There is another type of collar, folded like a concertina, which extends almost all the way to the tip of the nozzle.  It forms a better seal against the filler opening and for that reason is commonly found in states with strict air quality requirements.

I don't think the flat collars have much effect on pump shutoffs since they don't form a tight seal around the tank opening, but I'm not sure about the concertina type.  (As an aside, the concertina acts like a spring when it is compressed, so getting the nozzle to stay in the tank opening is sometimes not easy.)

Where fuel and air pollution is concerned, the UK tends to lag the US by 10-15 years in some respects.  In the US oxidation catalyst has been the law since 1975, so new cars produced in that and succeeding model years have not been able to use leaded gasoline.  In the UK cars continued to be built to use leaded fuel throughout the 1980's (I think 1994 was the last year in which such cars were made).  It was already exceptional to find leaded gasoline in the US in the early 1990's when I started driving, but in the UK phasing-out of "four-star" (as leaded gasoline was called) did not start until 1999 or so when Lead Replacement Petrol (LRP) was marketed in its place.  The working drawings for traffic signs which accompanied TSRGD 1994 included a symbol for four-star (consisting, predictably, of four eight-pointed stars in a square) and a two-pump symbol (one pump black, the other pump green) to indicate that service stations so signed had unleaded fuel available.

Based on this experience, I would give it a few years before the collars make their way to petrol pumps in the UK.

As an aside, US pollution control standards are very unforgiving to diesels, including turbodiesels, so it is less of a straightforward economic decision to buy a diesel in the US than it is in Europe where you are pretty much guaranteed to come ahead if you do more than 20,000 miles a year.  The stereotypical American diesel driver is the long-distance highway commuter who doesn't care about good acceleration and must have a Mercedes no matter what.

Re. static electricity, copper is your friend--it doesn't spark and for that reason is used in shell hoists and other implements for handling live ammunition.

[agentsteel53]

(As an aside, the concertina acts like a spring when it is compressed, so getting the nozzle to stay in the tank opening is sometimes not easy.)

It took me about three years to learn that I was allowed to un-compress the concertina.  I thought the whole purpose of it was to disengage the gas pump in case of inattention.

For the longest time I used to stand there, forcing it in to its maximum depth while the gas pumped. 

[agentsteel53]

one pump black, the other pump green

does that mean the availability of both gasoline and diesel?

In the US, black means unleaded gasoline, and green means diesel.  Completely the opposite of how it is in Iceland and Norway, and perhaps other places in Europe too! 

[Michael]

A few comments:

• Prepay pumping can be a hassle, but I can usually guess how much I need
• If I am wrong, I like to overpay and get change
• If I do use the entire prepay amount, the pump slows down at about 50 cents left and takes forever to complete
• I've never had automatic shutoff problems
• If I do trigger the automatic shutoff, I keep pumping to a five or ten cent or full dollar amount (ex: $15.46 to $15.50 or $23.94 to $24.00)
• I've noticed that the levers that hold the trigger open have been removed from a lot of places
• Now, there are signs saying to not hold the trigger open with an object

[J N Winkler]

Re. green and black pump symbols, the DFT's working drawings subsite is here:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/

The current version of the symbols in question (S47) is here:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/generalsseries/s47petroldieselandlpgfuel.pdf

Black pump means both diesel and leaded petrol, while green pump means unleaded petrol.  However, the current version does not show superimposed pumps.  I recall that such a symbol existed but I would have to double-check.

These working drawings were prepared to accompany TSRGD 2002 (the latest repeal and re-enactment of TSRGD).  It replaced TSRGD 1994, earlier enactments having come out in 1981, 1975, and 1964.  Working drawings for TSRGD 1994 were never put online by the DFT (although they were eventually scanned in and made available through several technical information services); instead they were sold at a cost of £30 for a complete set.

[florida]

I have had the amazing luck of the one time I left a pump unattended, its automatic shutoff didn't work!  I was sitting in the car, reading the map, and starting to think "this is surely taking a long time!" and next thing you know, I've salted the earth with six gallons of gasoline.  Note to self, never leave the pump unattended!

You're lucky you didn't "drive off", tearing off the hose and having gasoline showering down in the immediate area. (I still don't know how that guy did it.)

There is a station on US 17 between Charleston and Georgetown, SC where the pump did the same thing to me as I stood there and held it while pumping.

[agentsteel53]

I tend to remember to take out the pump before I leave!

[Duke87]

A lot of stations that I go to have "Do Not Top Off" stickers, talking about vapor reclamation or something of the like.

I'm more fond of the "Contains up to 10% ethanol" stickers. I think it would be hilarious to make a t-shirt with that on it and wear it to the bar.

regarding gas gauges - they are the farthest thing from being linear, and therefore quite difficult to correlate with actual quantity of gas in the tank.  When the gauge reads "full", the tank itself is usually 2-3 gallons, if not more, away from capacity.  Similarly, when it reads "empty", it still has about 1-2 gallons.

Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way.  Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.

I've noticed several trips take me from 3/4 to 1/2 on the way there and 1/2 to 3/8ths on the way back. So, yeah.

Also, the gauge moves when you face up or downhill. Because, you know, the gas in the tank is no longer level with respect to the car and that artificially drives the instrument up or down. They areby no means hyper accurate. Gas station pumps, however, are. I believe I just bought 8.546 gallons when it tells me that.

[agentsteel53]

Gas pumps are very accurate.  Especially in the state of Florida.  The state's department of weights and measures certification is headed by Charles Bronson.  You definitely don't want to mess with him.

[Scott5114]

If I have to prepay, I generally amble into the convenience store, toss a green piece of paper featuring Andrew Jackson on the counter, mutter "Twenty on six", and leave. It rarely does anything near close to filling up my tank, but I never have to get change, either.

The more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.

[deathtopumpkins]

The more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.

Most pumps around here have the number on a large plain sticker near the top facing the storefront for this very reason--so you can look out the window from the register and see it. Some pumps have a sticker on the front of the pump too, but not all.

[agentsteel53]

The more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.

usually they are good at identifying "the one the blue car is parked in front of".

my worst problem is identifying which side of the car the gas cap is on, and also if it is internal or external release.  Different rental car every week, same problem ...

[allniter89]

my worst problem is identifying which side of the car the gas cap is on, and also if it is internal or external release.  Different rental car every week, same problem .

I've noticed on several models of cars,  the instrument cluster fuel gauge will have a icon like this ">" or "<"  pointing to the side the gas cap is on.