Control Cities

[golden eagle]

Wow, this is a really cool website! It brings out the inner roadgeek in me. I see lots I can respond to and talk about. I'll just respond to each one I see by page.

Page 1:

I don't think I've ever seen a control city as far as Miami being in Richmond. Couldn't they've not used Fayetteville, Savannah or Jacksonville? Jacksonville is more than twice as large than Miami (though Miami has a large metropolitan area and much more tourist stuff).

Hellfighter: 75 does come very close to Saginaw and since it is the first significant city from Mackinac, I can justify it being used as a control city.

Revive: I can justify Dayton being used rather than Columbus on I-70. It is a large populated area (albeit not as large as Columbus and with a population dropping like a rock) and though I realize it's not right on I-70 (about ten miles or so south), it's close enough.

Flaroadgeek: I definitely agree with you on using Florida and Mississippi on I-65 in Mobile. If I didn't know a thing about geography, I wouldn't know where the heck I'm going. Same thing with signage for Wisconsin, Iowa and Indiana in the Chicago area. I know want to go to Wisconsin, but what if I want to go to Milwaukee or Madison? 

Urban Prairie: I could never understand why McComb and Grenada are used as control cities on I-55. Nothing against either town, but there's nothing significant there that would use justify usage as a control city. I also know that somewhere in north Mississippi (Desoto County, maybe?) that Batesville is used as a control city. Only thing significant there is the outlet mall on the southbound side on I-55. I also agree with you about Bay St. Louis for I-10. BSL was a lovely town before Katrina hit, but it's not Gulfport or Biloxi.

rmsandw: I saw the Tulsa sign in the St. Louis area. Couldn't they have used Springfield, MO instead?

[golden eagle]

Page 2 comments:

On my most recent trip to Chicago (July), Memphis is used as signage throughout the entire trip southward through Illinois. In fact, all the highway mileage signs use Memphis as a point of reference. I don't recall that ever being the case. I do remember a sign saying Memphis being less than 500 miles a little bit south of Chicago, but don't remember seeing anymore signs until I-55 in Missouri. Speaking of Missouri, I-57 doesn't even have Memphis on its mileage signs. They reference Sikeston.

AARoads: I've seen Tampa being used as the control city on I-75 south of Atlanta around the airport/I-285 area, but are there any chances that it will be used a control city inside Atlanta itself? Currently, they use Macon, but if I'm not mistaken, Tampa and Macon shared control city status south of the city.

I don't recall anyone mentioning this, but when I was Las Vegas, I saw Los Angeles used as the control city for I-15 south. Why could they not use San Diego or at least use both cities as control cities? Los Angeles is about 60 or so miles west of I-15. And speaking of San Diego, why hasn't 15 from I-5 to I-805 been redesignated as simply I-15? I do remember visiting out there in 1996 that that part of the highway wasn't up to interstate standards, but now it is.

[froggie]

Urban Prairie: I could never understand why McComb and Grenada are used as control cities on I-55. Nothing against either town, but there's nothing significant there that would use justify usage as a control city. I also know that somewhere in north Mississippi (Desoto County, maybe?) that Batesville is used as a control city.

I can see Batesville being used since that's where I-55 crosses APC Corridor V.  One could also make an argument for McComb based on the now-4-lane US 98 running east to Hattiesburg and beyond...

And speaking of San Diego, why hasn't 15 from I-5 to I-805 been redesignated as simply I-15? I do remember visiting out there in 1996 that that part of the highway wasn't up to interstate standards, but now it is.

As of early last year, no it isn't.  CA 15 is still substandard in the CA 94 vicinity.

[Bryant5493]

AARoads: I've seen Tampa being used as the control city on I-75 south of Atlanta around the airport/I-285 area, but are there any chances that it will be used a control city inside Atlanta itself? Currently, they use Macon, but if I'm not mistaken, Tampa and Macon shared control city status south of the city.

The only places that I've seen Tampa as a control city is on the I-75 access road from I-285 on the southside, like you stated. It would be interesting to see that on more signage... instead of Air Cargo.


Be well,

Bryant

[myosh_tino]

As of early last year, no it isn't.  CA 15 is still substandard in the CA 94 vicinity.

More specifically, it's the interchange with CA-94 that is substandard due to blind ramps and left exits.  Given California's budget mess, who knows when this will be fixed.

[jdb1234]

Tampa is also used as a control city for I-285 on a few BGS on I-75 north of Atlanta

[golden eagle]

Maybe it's my computer but I can't seem to reply to each post when I hit the quote button. Oh well.

I used to live out by the 94 freeway near the Lemon Grove-San Diego line. I never knew that about the 94/15 interchange. But then again, I didn't own a car and didn't go that way much.

As far as McComb being a control city, it's been that way every since I was kid (and I'm 34). I don't think the entire stretch of 98 from McComb to Hattiesburg has been four-laned until the 90s. If we use the four-lane criteria for a control city, then Grenada shouldn't have been used as one in the first place.

[Scott5114]

Not on the same route exactly, but if you go from here to Chicago you pass through two Springfields.

[Duke87]

There's also somewhere in New York City where "New England" is used as a control, but I can't remember where.

Used to be all over the place. For instance,this advance sign for exit 6 off the Hutch. I'd say it dates back to about 2002 or so. I remember vividly the old sign there which read:

I-95 North (shield)
New England Thruway
New England

Up until that time, all of the signs on the Hutch in the Bronx were really old and had quite a few quirks (the most obvious being that none of them had the exit number on them). There definitely also used to be quite a few signs on I-95 itself which read "New England Thruway - New England". Whether any remain is an open question but considering the nature of the area there's probably one tucked away in some quiet corner somewhere that NYSDOT, NYSTA, or NYCDOT overlooked.

The Hutch pretty consistently uses "Merritt Pkwy" as its northbound control point, although a new sign which was installed fairly recently on this overhead gantry now, in NYSDOT boxed text glory, reads:

[HUTCHINSON RIVER PKWY]
Rye Brook
TO
[MERRITT PKWY]

Yeah. "Rye Brook". Because it's last town along the highway before the state line, not because there's anything really significant about it.
And what's more, due to the boxes, it stands out more significantly than the rest of the text on the sign.

NYSDOT needs to stop this boxing nonsense.

[Jim]

NYSDOT needs to stop this boxing nonsense.

I like it in some instances - it becomes clear that the "boxed" text on a BGS refers to a street by name rather than a place (though it's usually obvious anyway).  But I noticed a lot more of those "boxed" street signs in the NYC area referring to the major parkways (as in your examples).  In those cases, it does seem to make the route name, which is what a lot of drivers will be looking for, harder to see on the signs.  For the parkways, I'd like them to use the appropriate shields on the BGSs as they'd do for a state/US/Interstate/county highway.

[wytout]

One of my favorites is on I-84 East Bound in CT around the I-84/I-384 Split. Signage  "I-84 EAST Boston" and "I-384 EAST Providence"  Well...  I-84 ends in Sturbridge, MA at I-90, 70 miles away from Boston.  I-384 is the short spur that would have been a new alignment of I-84 had it actually been built to Providence.  However, it's an 8-mile spur that ends in Bolton, CT at an interchange with US 6 and US 44 not even remotely close to providence or the RI border for that matter.

[deathtopumpkins]

But you can still get to both of those places from there, just VIA a connecting road. That's very common on interstates, especially 3dis.
Take, for instance, I-205 around Portland, OR. Its northbound control city is Seattle, but it itself doesn't go to Seattle, you have to get back on I-5 first. Not the best example, but I'm sure there are many more.

[hbelkins]

But you can still get to both of those places from there, just VIA a connecting road. That's very common on interstates, especially 3dis.
Take, for instance, I-205 around Portland, OR. Its northbound control city is Seattle, but it itself doesn't go to Seattle, you have to get back on I-5 first. Not the best example, but I'm sure there are many more.

And I-57 doesn't go to Memphis. And I-24 doesn't go to St. Louis.

[Duke87]

Okay, this picture could have come out better, but here's what I snagged of that new signage earlier today:

[wytout]

But you can still get to both of those places from there, just VIA a connecting road. That's very common on interstates, especially 3dis.
Take, for instance, I-205 around Portland, OR. Its northbound control city is Seattle, but it itself doesn't go to Seattle, you have to get back on I-5 first. Not the best example, but I'm sure there are many more.

Oh I'm sure it happens a lot.  Truth be told, with 384 I can understand Providence as a control city, because honestly... there's just plain nothin between Hartford and Providence going that way.  I mean, I guess they could use Willimantic, but that's not much of a city. 

[deathtopumpkins]

I would suggest Manchester until after exit 4 or so if there had to be something besides Providence, as that's what I've always used I-384 for (my dad's family is from Manchester), but after that Willimantic for US-6 and Providence for US-44, I guess.

On second though, just stick with Providence. 

[golden eagle]

But you can still get to both of those places from there, just VIA a connecting road. That's very common on interstates, especially 3dis.
Take, for instance, I-205 around Portland, OR. Its northbound control city is Seattle, but it itself doesn't go to Seattle, you have to get back on I-5 first. Not the best example, but I'm sure there are many more.

Oh I'm sure it happens a lot.  Truth be told, with 384 I can understand Providence as a control city, because honestly... there's just plain nothin between Hartford and Providence going that way.  I mean, I guess they could use Willimantic, but that's not much of a city. 

I-240 in Memphis uses Nashville as the control city going eastbound and Jackson, MS going westbound. I-459 in the Birmingham area has Montgomery, Gadsden, Atlanta (east/northbound) and Tuscaloosa (west/southbound).

[hm insulators]

Golden eagle: I've had the same issues with my computer when I try to use the "quote" button. Maybe the moderators can sit down and figure out what's up.

[DBrim]

Another interesting/distant one: At the beginning of 8 in Casa Grande, the control city is "San Diego".  No mention of Yuma.

[golden eagle]

Golden eagle: I've had the same issues with my computer when I try to use the "quote" button. Maybe the moderators can sit down and figure out what's up.

One of the moderators sent me a PM about it. If I have it, I'll forward it to you.

[agentsteel53]

can you forward me that PM too?  it very likely should be published in the "Welcome" area, unless it reveals the location of our Secret Admin Castle!

[SP Cook]

I agree with HB mostly relative to WV. 

On 64 it should be Lexington KY, Huntington, Charleston, Beckley, but I think Lewisburg is OK.  After that Lexington VA is fine.  Richmond is very far away and not where most people are going.  64 west used to be Lexington KY, but they changed it to Ashland, which is silly. 

On 77 it should be Wytheville, Bluefield (Bluefield has been a control city since before there were control cities), Beckley, Charleston, but then I would go with Cleveland.  Parkersburg is a meaningless town of little help.  This is particularly true when one is going just north of Charleston and are presented with "N 77 Parkersburg" or "N 79 Clarksburg".  Two tiny towns of no significance.  Should be "Cleveland or Pittsburgh".  At least Morgantown which is known because of the school.   The multiplexed part of the Turnpike also bugs me because it uses Parkersburg as the second control city.  The vast majority of the traffic is going to 64. not 77.  There is not one "Huntington" sign.  There even is a sign at the last rest area reading "next rest area 52 miles" which is the next 77 area, but no mention of the closer 64 area, after the two roads split.

79 is a mess.  Charleston-Clarksburg-Fairmont-Morgantown-Washington PA.  Really it should just be Charleston-Morgantown, with some secondary Pittsburgh signage-Pittsburgh.  Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Washington PA are meaningless.  68's only control city is Cumberland MD.  Should be Washington DC/Baltimore MD.  The control city for Corridor G south should be Pikeville KY, rather than Logan. 

Kentucky uses Ashland on 64, rather than Huntington.  Silly.  I do not recall what they use on 75 south of Lexington, but is it not Richmond?  Should be Knoxville.

There needs to be signage at the 79-19 split that uses something like "Charlotte" for 19.  I know it is far, but maybe 15% of the leaving the state south traffic stays on 79, which is 45 miles out of the way.  Northbound at 77/64 - 19 split, Morgantown would be OK. 

While it has not been done yet, as Corridor H is finished (if it ever is) I would advocate for I-79 Weston-Elkins-I-66/81 Strasburg, VA - To Washington DC.  The intermediate mountain towns are meaningless.

After a very long point of Roanoke-Winchester, I-81 quickly starts a string of small towns, Martinsburg-Hagerstown-Chambersburg.  This is particular confusing at the 70-81 junction, where the primary control cities are Hancock - Martinsburg -Chambersburg - Frederick.  It should be Morgantown WV/PA TPK Pittsburgh - Roanoke - Harrisburg PA - Baltimore-Washington.

Some out of state ones.  NC mostly uses "Ft. Chiswell" rather than "Wytheville".  Nobody even remembers when the interstate ended at Ft. Chiswell.  This is being corrected.  NC's use of Elkin on 77 is also silly.  South of Wytheville, I would just go with Charlotte, maybe Statesville.  The so-called I-74 uses Mt. Airy, where it should be Winston-Salem.  The other part of the so-called 73/74, south of Greensboro, should be Greensboro-Rockingham.

In South Carolina, the particular short cut to Myrtle Beach involves 7 route number changes.  SC keeps you going with "Beach Traffic", which is appreciated, but "traffic" ?  Why not "The Grand Strand" ?

Lots of roads in SE Ohio, such as OH 32, use Athens.  Hardly a place anyone has heard of.

New Jersey, on 78 which I drive somewhat frequently, uses "Newark".  Really?  You don't think people might be going to New York City?  They also have a sign at the split between 22 and 78 that reads "78 Lehigh Univ - 22 Lehigh Valley's Other Colleges".  Gee, I'm glad I didn't go to some places "other colleges".

The use of "Miami" out of state should be illegal.  Jacksonville is certainly a large enough town.  "Florida" would even be OK over "Miami". 

At the borders, every time I have been near Canada, the last control "city" is, well "Canada".  Do you think you could be more specific?  Near Mexico, "International Boundry" seems popular.  I was up in Montreal recently and they seem to have reverted to English relative to the autoroutes that connect to the US interstates.  They used to have "USA" in French which is like "EUA" and "etate des New York" and "ville des New York", rather than New York City or an appropriate town in NYS like Platsburgh. 

[Scott5114]

can you forward me that PM too?  it very likely should be published in the "Welcome" area, unless it reveals the location of our Secret Admin Castle!

Just as long as they don't know the secret keypad code is 55625##5563*6**53422##46, we'll be safe.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky uses Ashland on 64, rather than Huntington.  Silly.  I do not recall what they use on 75 south of Lexington, but is it not Richmond?  Should be Knoxville.

Both Richmond and Knoxville. For I-64 east it is Winchester/Ashland, for I-75 north it's Georgetown/Cincinnati and for I-64 west it's Frankfort/Louisville. At least Kentucky acknowledges that a significant amount of the traffic on the interstates is only heading to the next town/county seat.

While it has not been done yet, as Corridor H is finished (if it ever is) I would advocate for I-79 Weston-Elkins-I-66/81 Strasburg, VA - To Washington DC.  The intermediate mountain towns are meaningless.

Post that on MTR and let's watch Randy's head explode.

After a very long point of Roanoke-Winchester, I-81 quickly starts a string of small towns, Martinsburg-Hagerstown-Chambersburg.  This is particular confusing at the 70-81 junction, where the primary control cities are Hancock - Martinsburg -Chambersburg - Frederick.  It should be Morgantown WV/PA TPK Pittsburgh - Roanoke - Harrisburg PA - Baltimore-Washington.

Unless things have changed since I was last there in February, I-81's control cities on I-70 are Harrisburg/Roanoke. The pic below is from 2004 but the cities were the same when I was there this winter.

Supplemental destinations are shown in this pic, also from 2004:

Some out of state ones.  NC mostly uses "Ft. Chiswell" rather than "Wytheville".  Nobody even remembers when the interstate ended at Ft. Chiswell.  This is being corrected.  NC's use of Elkin on 77 is also silly.  South of Wytheville, I would just go with Charlotte, maybe Statesville.  The so-called I-74 uses Mt. Airy, where it should be Winston-Salem.  The other part of the so-called 73/74, south of Greensboro, should be Greensboro-Rockingham.

Freewayjim's new video shows the sign as listing both Mt. Airy and Winston-Salem. This photo from '04 also shows it to be the case:



Edited for image width. -S.

[froggie]

Parkersburg is a meaningless town of little help.

Perhaps, but it's also where I-77 intersects Corridor D/US 50, which is important enough of an east-west corridor to warrant a control city.  A similar argument could be made for having Cambridge, OH as a control city (the I-70/I-77 junction).

79 is a mess.  Charleston-Clarksburg-Fairmont-Morgantown-Washington PA.  Really it should just be Charleston-Morgantown, with some secondary Pittsburgh signage-Pittsburgh.  Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Washington PA are meaningless.

A fair point with Fairmont, but Clarksburg is the Corridor D junction and Washington is the I-70 junction.

68's only control city is Cumberland MD.  Should be Washington DC/Baltimore MD.

Cumberland is the main town in western Maryland.  One could also make an argument for having Hancock as a control city (I-68/I-70 JCT).

The control city for Corridor G south should be Pikeville KY, rather than Logan.

I'd hazard a guess that Logan is used because the WV 73/WV 10/WV 80 corridor between 119 and US 52 at Gilbert is on the National Highway System.