exit numbering in California

[agentsteel53]

so what was deemed so bad about exit numbers in 1971 that CA decided to put up only a handful and then stop putting up any more?

[myosh_tino]

so what was deemed so bad about exit numbers in 1971 that CA decided to put up only a handful and then stop putting up any more?

I think it wasn't about "numbering exits is bad" but more about numbering all the freeway exits in California would be very, very expensive and it would be cheaper to get a waiver from FHWA on exit numbering.  As for why only sign a handful of exits?  I believe the 1971 signs were a "test".

Also, around that time, wasn't Jerry Brown governor?  If so, I recall my dad telling me that his transportation "expert" advised him to kill just about all the road and freeway projects in the state and to focus on public transportation instead.  That's why freeways like CA-85 and CA-87, which were supposed to be built in the 1970's weren't actually built until the early 1990's.  I also know the sudden halt to funding resulted in the ghost ramps that were at the then unfinished 280/680/101 interchange in San Jose.  If Jerry Brown was governor then there might be a relation between his actions and the test of exit numbering in L.A.

[agentsteel53]

did they really think that they could get a permanent waiver on exit numbers?    maybe a retroactive one, sure, but for all new signs they should've been made mandatory.  Then we wouldn't have nearly as much of a mess with the hideous retrofits of small squares with the number just below the exit.

[roadfro]

I do believe the exit numbers will be of benefit to the traveling public. For those long-time Californians that refer to exit by name/route, they'll probably continue to navigate that way. Adding numbers will aid those unfamiliar with exit names and who are more used to navigating by exit number.

The point brought up previously about similar names along a stretch of freeway is a perfect example of this problem.  California has many cities with similar street names, sometimes located close to one another.  This tripped me up a few years ago as I was heading to an event somewhere.  We had to exit the freeway (can't recall which route) at Mission Blvd, and did so. Unfortunately, the Mission Blvd we really wanted was another 5-10 miles south of where we were, and we lost about half an hour trying to figure out where our wrong turn was.  Had the Mapquest directions been able to refer to a specific exit number for Mission Blvd, that whole ordeal could've been easily avoided.

[agentsteel53]

you are likely referring to I-680 in the southeast bay area, around Fremont.  Mission Boulevard is old CA-17 and intersects 680 twice.

I wonder how confusing it gets with even longer parallels between new and old alignments.  I'm just glad that the business loops off the 99 freeway are not *all* labeled Golden State Highway, still!  I seem to remember such a thing happening on some interstate freeway (parallel to an old US route) somewhere else in the US, but do not recall the details.  Was it Lee Highway somewhere in Virginia, maybe?

[TheStranger]

mynosh_tino: I do know Jerry Brown is specifically responsible for the Route 160 bridge in Antioch being only one lane in each direction, when the crossing was planned to be four lanes...
could he also be part of the reason why the 210 east of 57 was not even started until the late 1990s?

California's rationale for button copy - extreme durability and long periods between sign replacement - probably had to do a little bit with why they were reluctant to extend adding tabs and replacing signs in this regard after the additions to Los Angeles-area routes (110, 10, and three or four exits on the northernmost part of the Santa Ana Freeway from 710 to the San Bernardino Split), since they had just changed over from the white-on-black to the green-on-black in the last decade.

Obviously nowadays, sign replacement is not only shorter-term, but expected to be as such, providing the opportunity for number installation in the last few years.

[agentsteel53]

in 1971, CA was not quite yet using button copy for its overhead signs... they were porcelain non-reflective signs with underlighting.

but yes, they certainly were designed to last.  I believe they were intended to be serviceable for 30 years.  The oldest overhead guide sign I know of in CA goes back to sometime between 1949 and 1951, and it's still working fine!

[TheStranger]

but yes, they certainly were designed to last.  I believe they were intended to be serviceable for 30 years.  The oldest overhead guide sign I know of in CA goes back to sometime between 1949 and 1951, and it's still working fine!

That reminds me...looking at AARoads and Google Maps, CalTrans has an amazing juxtaposition at the North Mission Road exit off of the Santa Ana Freeway (US 101) in Los Angeles - a modern, 2008-era retroreflective sign with exit numbers (and proper route acknowledgment for 101) AND a 1950s-era tiny green sign on a gantry!

[TheStranger]

you are likely referring to I-680 in the southeast bay area, around Fremont.  Mission Boulevard is old CA-17 and intersects 680 twice.

Old Route 9 actually (interestingly, three of the former segments of Route 9 were given a sequential set of numbers in 1964 - 236, 237, 238).  IIRC, south of the second Mission Boulevard segment (Route 262), I THINK 17 used that for a bit before hitting up Oakland Road.

In addition to the exit numbers delineating the difference between the two Mission Boulevard exits, I suspect this is why Route 262 ultimately got signed at the northern terminus at 680, to attempt to reduce driver confusion a bit.  (262 is the southern portion of the segment that used to be Route 21 as well)

I wonder how confusing it gets with even longer parallels between new and old alignments.  I'm just glad that the business loops off the 99 freeway are not *all* labeled Golden State Highway, still! 

IIRC, there's only four or so of those?  Bakersfield, Turlock, Fresno being the three that come to mind immediately.

[agentsteel53]

Old Route 9 actually (interestingly, three of the former segments of Route 9 were given a sequential set of numbers in 1964 - 236, 237, 238).  IIRC, south of the second Mission Boulevard segment (Route 262), I THINK 17 used that for a bit before hitting up Oakland Road.

oh yes, I always get 9, 17, 21 confused in that area.  Kind of a pinch point with the bay in the way and all!  I'd love to see a detailed map from about 1947 that showed the surface street alignments through there.

IIRC, there's only four or so of those?  Bakersfield, Turlock, Fresno being the three that come to mind immediately.

there used to be plenty more.  Until about a year ago, there was an early 1960s white-and-black BUSINESS banner in either Tipton or Pixley.  The US-99 shield was, of course, long gone.

[TheStranger]

One thing that I may have brought up in another thread, but certainly would fit in nicely:

Can someone explain why the I-80/US 50 & Business 80 junction in West Sacramento and the eastbound US 50/Route 99/Business 80 junction in Oak Park did NOT receive exit numbers when they received new signs in fall 2009?

Many other freeway-to-freeway junctions have received numbers in recent years (i.e. 433B for 80 splitting off of 101 in San Francisco, 518 for the 50/5 junction, 6B/6C for 50 west intersecting Route 99 and Business 80 respectively), and metro Sacramento has had numbers added to almost all exits, starting in 2007-2008.