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Old MUTCD in PDF format?

Started by Quillz, November 15, 2010, 12:45:27 AM

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Quillz

I'm wondering if it's possible to find, say, the 1957 MUTCD online in a PDF format? I'm looking for the earliest one that has detailed dimensions for the original Interstate shield, as well as the same era's dimensions for the US Route shields and any others.

I found bits and pieces of one on the Shield Gallery, but obviously it's not the whole thing. Of course I can find the modern one online, but I would much prefer older specs so I can really get my concepts as accurate as possible.


Dr Frankenstein

I found them before, but I lost the URL. That wasn't too long ago though, so they're probably still there.

Quillz

Did you download them? Can you upload them?

I've looked throughout the FHWA's site and really couldn't find anything useful.

J N Winkler

#3
There is no 1957 MUTCD.  What you are probably looking for is the Interstate signing and marking manual, which came out (IIRC) in 1957 or 1958.  Old MUTCDs in general (but not the Interstate signing and marking manual) are available on Richard Moeur's site:

http://www.trafficsign.us/oldmutcd.html

It has been updated a bit since I last visited--it looks like Gene Hawkins has been able to find some sign drawings to go with the 1927 signing manual.  I don't think anyone has found the complete Appendix D drawings set, however.

To return to the Interstate shield design, there was some discussion of it earlier in the Road-related Illustrations thread.  I am not having any luck finding the specific page, however.  I know myosh_tino and I both presented separate PNGs of a 1957 shield.

Edit:  Found the page:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=575.msg44686;topicseen#msg44686

Edit II:  Caltrans stuck to the 1957 design for independent-mount Interstate shields when it went through the Great Redrawing of the G-series specs in 1971.  So Caltrans' sign specs are your friend if you want a 1957 shield without going through a lot of trouble to find the AASHO manual.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2010, 03:58:12 AM
There is no 1957 MUTCD.  What you are probably looking for is the Interstate signing and marking manual, which came out (IIRC) in 1957 or 1958.

mine I think is adopted Oct '57 and revised Feb '58 to include the business loop and spur shields.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

#5
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2010, 03:58:12 AM
There is no 1957 MUTCD.  What you are probably looking for is the Interstate signing and marking manual, which came out (IIRC) in 1957 or 1958.  Old MUTCDs in general (but not the Interstate signing and marking manual) are available on Richard Moeur's site:

http://www.trafficsign.us/oldmutcd.html

It has been updated a bit since I last visited--it looks like Gene Hawkins has been able to find some sign drawings to go with the 1927 signing manual.  I don't think anyone has found the complete Appendix D drawings set, however.

To return to the Interstate shield design, there was some discussion of it earlier in the Road-related Illustrations thread.  I am not having any luck finding the specific page, however.  I know myosh_tino and I both presented separate PNGs of a 1957 shield.

Edit:  Found the page:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=575.msg44686;topicseen#msg44686

Edit II:  Caltrans stuck to the 1957 design for independent-mount Interstate shields when it went through the Great Redrawing of the G-series specs in 1971.  So Caltrans' sign specs are your friend if you want a 1957 shield without going through a lot of trouble to find the AASHO manual.
Your post pretty much has what I was looking for. Was specifically looking for old Interstate and US Route shield specs.

EDIT: That guy's site is just a bit white page upon loading it again.

agentsteel53

actual layouts are hard as hell to find - it took me years to find the official 1926/1948 US shield shape, complete with lengths and radii of segments needed to build the design.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

J N Winkler

Jake, have you found a pre-1979 SHS?  If so, where?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

#8
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2010, 12:41:17 PM
Jake, have you found a pre-1979 SHS?  If so, where?

I have not.  Just some photocopies of a 1948 that dealt with US highway markers: state-named 16" cutout and 24" number-only white square for intersections.  Oh and a larger sign with JUNCTION and then multiple route shields that I have not yet studied in detail.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

agentsteel53

oh I've also got a 1966 Pennsylvania layout sheet that describes the US shield that would become the 1970 federal standard - but that's vile and obscene, so who wants to see that??
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

#10
The '61 spec shield was the last good one, imo.

I just recently did this, to sort of modernize it a bit:



Obviously, it's not a true replication of the '61 spec, but it's based quite heavily on it. Using some pic I found on the shield gallery that had a few dimensions posted, I think the numeral size and borders are accurate, and the '61 spec was the most recent one to use compressed numerals for 3di shields. Since some shields did use Series A before it was discontinued, I used Clearview 1-B here.

OFF-TOPIC: I just realized that "PDF format" is redundant like "ATM machine" or "PIN number."

agentsteel53

that's basically the cutout variant of the '48 spec.  the shield generator has the white-square version available; but some states used cutouts.

live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

Oh, I thought it was the '61 spec. Well, either way, both '48 and '61 are much better than the current '71 spec.

Which reminds me... Iowa still uses the '61 spec shield, but against a black square, right? They definitely don't use the bloated '71 shields like almost every other state does.

J N Winkler

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 15, 2010, 01:05:23 PMI have not.  Just some photocopies of a 1948 that dealt with US highway markers: state-named 16" cutout and 24" number-only white square for intersections.  Oh and a larger sign with JUNCTION and then multiple route shields that I have not yet studied in detail.

Do you have a title for it?  It didn't always used to be called Standard Highway Signs and it might be possible to find a full copy lurking in a state library or transportation resource center somewhere if we have bibliographical data.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2010, 02:27:17 PM
Do you have a title for it?

I'll look when I get home, but these were photocopies of individual pages and I don't remember them having title info
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

agentsteel53

Quote from: Quillz on November 15, 2010, 01:59:48 PM

Which reminds me... Iowa still uses the '61 spec shield, but against a black square, right? They definitely don't use the bloated '71 shields like almost every other state does.

that is the definition of '61 spec: classic shield shape on black square.  Mississippi also uses the classic shield shape a lot, as does Arkansas.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

Interesting info. California and Virginia use the '71 cutouts, right?

agentsteel53

Quote from: Quillz on November 15, 2010, 03:34:31 PM
Interesting info. California and Virginia use the '71 cutouts, right?

CA uses the 1957 spec, which first appeared in the 1961 MUTCD.  It has US and the number.

Virginia, until recently, used 16" cutouts with just the number.  That was never any formal spec, but it most closely resembles 1948.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

The '57 spec is different from the '61 spec, though, because when comparing California to Iowa, they aren't quite the same. (Iowa's kind of looks like the concept I did earlier, so it seems like the '61 is based on the '48...)

All these specs are getting confusing...

agentsteel53

yes, there are several different shield styles that appear in '61 federal literature: intersection marker (black square), regular reassurance (16" cutout with state name) and interstate-multiplexed US route freeway reassurance (California style)
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

J N Winkler

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 15, 2010, 01:14:57 PMoh I've also got a 1966 Pennsylvania layout sheet that describes the US shield that would become the 1970 federal standard - but that's vile and obscene, so who wants to see that??

I would like to see it.  I think the current US route shield is grrrreat!  I'm a back-to-Forbes fundamentalist and it makes it easy to fit in Series D digits.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

agentsteel53

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2010, 11:18:16 AM
I would like to see it.  I think the current US route shield is grrrreat!  I'm a back-to-Forbes fundamentalist and it makes it easy to fit in Series D digits.

who is Forbes?

the D digits fit just fine into the '61 spec.



if a bit more space is needed, expand the shield size so the tips touch the outer edge, as opposed to being about an inch in.

(btw I am quite sure I put that spec onto the disc I burned you back in the day.  Check under Pennsylvania.)
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

mightyace

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 15, 2010, 01:14:57 PM
oh I've also got a 1966 Pennsylvania layout sheet that describes the US shield that would become the 1970 federal standard - but that's vile and obscene, so who wants to see that??

Gee, first the '70 US shield spec now Clearview.

<sarcasm>A real thanks to the state I was born and raised in!</sarcasm>
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

agentsteel53

it's been a while since Pennsylvania did awesome things like this:



(even that, though - the text-instead-of-shields thing - I can't say Penna invented it since I've seen it in use as early as 1919, but it's still kinda lame)
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2010, 11:18:16 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 15, 2010, 01:14:57 PMoh I've also got a 1966 Pennsylvania layout sheet that describes the US shield that would become the 1970 federal standard - but that's vile and obscene, so who wants to see that??

I would like to see it.  I think the current US route shield is grrrreat!  I'm a back-to-Forbes fundamentalist and it makes it easy to fit in Series D digits.
I had no issues with the current US Route shield until I joined this board. Now I can't stand it. Anything later than '61 makes me cringe.

And yet I'm probably the lone Clearview fan here. Go figure.



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