Sign locations–disclose or no?

[Alps]

Both added to my itineraries. MDOTFan, would you be willing to share the location with me? Next time I'm out that way I'd love to grab my own photo of it. I can keep quiet - just ask a certain person who found a certain shield in Virginia, and that's all I'm saying about it.

(As long as you're not unusually penisy* about it, because then I delight in giving it away)
*Family Guy reference

[agentsteel53]

I can keep quiet - just ask a certain person who found a certain shield in Virginia, and that's all I'm saying about it.

argh, don't give away what state it's in!

[Alps]

I can keep quiet - just ask a certain person who found a certain shield in Virginia, and that's all I'm saying about it.

argh, don't give away what state it's in!

I'd argue that the state, and usually even the city, are fairly obvious regardless...

[MDOTFanFB]

reminds me of this sign:

Notice how strangely you can see part of "95" through "395"!

Both added to my itineraries. MDOTFan, would you be willing to share the location with me?

Sorry, but the exact location is being kept a secret, to prevent theft or replacement. All I can tell you it's somewhere between U.S. 12/Michigan Avenue and M-85/Fort Street. And what exactly do you mean by "both added"?

[CanesFan27]

Why does a certain song by Black Sabbath come to mind here?

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Why does a certain song by Black Sabbath come to mind here?

Or the Kinks, or Grand Funk Railroad for that matter.

[Alps]

Both added to my itineraries. MDOTFan, would you be willing to share the location with me?

Sorry, but the exact location is being kept a secret, to prevent theft or replacement. All I can tell you it's somewhere between U.S. 12/Michigan Avenue and M-85/Fort Street. And what exactly do you mean by "both added"?

Both = Ian's plus yours. I'm not blabbing the location, I'm certainly not stealing it, nor do I have the means to replace it. Just interested in getting my own photo. Hence not asking you to post it here, just to message me, since I'm out to Michigan at least once a year.

[hbelkins]

Why does a certain song by Black Sabbath come to mind here?

Really. I think you all are being quite goofy over this whole "Ohmigod, if we put the location of an old sign out on the Internet, Podunk DOT will go out and replace it with Clearview" schtick.

[agentsteel53]

Really. I think you all are being quite goofy over this whole "Ohmigod, if we put the location of an old sign out on the Internet, Podunk DOT will go out and replace it with Clearview" schtick.

and have the sign melted down into guardrails.

I'd rather have an, ahem, freelance sign harvester get it, because at least that way it lives on.

there are some DOTs and DPWs that are significantly more aggressive at removing old signs than the demand for replacement would dictate. 

[MDOTFanFB]

Why does a certain song by Black Sabbath come to mind here?

Really. I think you all are being quite goofy over this whole "Ohmigod, if we put the location of an old sign out on the Internet, Podunk DOT will go out and replace it with Clearview" schtick.

That's the same reason why I'm keeping the location of my U.S. 10 unisign secret, if I did give it out, MDOT or the city of Detroit would go out and replace it with a "TO M-10" unisign.

[agentsteel53]

there's about eight or nine of those US-10 unisigns.

[corco]

Because if there's one thing the city of Detroit is spending money on right now, it's sign replacement?

[agentsteel53]

Because if there's one thing the city of Detroit is spending money on right now, it's sign replacement?

California is just as broke, and they dug out every last old porcelain sign at the 5/110 and 101/110 (Four Level) interchanges, just so they can put up new retroreflective signs that say "Parkway".

whoop dee fucking doo.

the old signs were perfectly serviceable. 

[cu2010]

Because if there's one thing the city of Detroit is spending money on right now, it's sign replacement?

Well, considering that there's damn Clearview everywhere now...

[florida]

Really. I think you all are being quite goofy over this whole "Ohmigod, if we put the location of an old sign out on the Internet, Podunk DOT will go out and replace it with Clearview" schtick.

and have the sign melted down into guardrails.

I'd rather have an, ahem, freelance sign harvester get it, because at least that way it lives on.

there are some DOTs and DPWs that are significantly more aggressive at removing old signs than the demand for replacement would dictate. 

Namely, down this way....

[Ian]

I don't mind giving the location to most old signs to fellow road sign enthusiasts. You can trust someone like Steve with the signs' location. But like Jake said, I'd rather have someone steal it than have it be replaced.

[ctsignguy]

I kinda feel a bit whipsawed on this one....if i find a sign, i would want to try to get it legally...but as has happened to Alex myself, and others, sometimes alerting in an effort to get a sign for the collection, ends up with no sign and a gem lost forever....

but i wouldnt ever do a wrench discount unless sanctioned by the local garage (did that once, and boy did THAT feel odd as traffic was driving by me as i was cutting)...as tall as i am, i would be too obvious i am afraid....

[hbelkins]

there are some DOTs and DPWs that are significantly more aggressive at removing old signs than the demand for replacement would dictate. 

But it's not like people from their sign shops hang out here or m.t.r. or the Yahoo groups, just looking for people to reveal the location of an old sign so they can go take it down. Adam's right, it is paranoia and it's foolish, IMHO.

[florida]

But it's not like people from their sign shops hang out here or m.t.r. or the Yahoo groups, just looking for people to reveal the location of an old sign so they can go take it down. Adam's right, it is paranoia and it's foolish, IMHO.

I partially agree since one cannot fight a road widening or to a lesser extent, resurfacing....but when there are perfectly functional signs (which may be at least 30 years old) on side roads getting replaced or going missing for no good reason it does make us vintage sign fan folk get all foolishly paranoid.

Edit: Maybe this whole conversation should be split from this thread....?

[CanesFan27]

Wait, ctsignguy, aren't you defeating your own purpose by asking or them to remove a sign for yourself...but you don't want anyone to share the location of other in case someone finds out and takes it down.

It sounds contradictory to me.

[ctsignguy]

No, i would share with you guys....if i could have located my notes, i would have shared where that US 6 was (I did try, but it turned out my location was a bit off...my notes werent quite as good as i thought....)...i dont see many signs in the wild i would want (and some of them are well-known anyway)...the 6 was odd

(some of the wild signs i would have wanted are old-style Connecticut signs that arent route markers, and generally not of as much interest here...)

[Scott5114]

Topic split from the "Old signs on the internet" thread.

[Duke87]

I think the fear is mostly unfounded. I mean, if you've got an old sign sitting right in plain sight out on a state highway, there's no way the DOT doesn't know it's there. And if it's off on a locally maintained side street, the DOT isn't going to take responsibility for it.

Although, I can also see somewhat where it might depend on the DOT. Some states are aggressive about removing old signs and could conceivably make a special order to get one replaced if they heard through the grapevine that it existed. Others don't care and would not expend the effort to replace just one sign.


As for it getting stolen, I will concur that that is far better than it getting scrapped.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

After I get my photograph, I don't care what happens to the sign. Be it replaced, retired, or stolen.
This being secretive about locations is a ploy by those to exert power or infleunce on other folks here, other locations where like-minded folks congregate, and (mistakingly) over DOTs and engineer depts.
I'd rather see people do useful activities to draw attention to themselves than what I described above.

[J N Winkler]

This being secretive about locations is a ploy by those to exert power or influence on other folks here, other locations where like-minded folks congregate, and (mistakingly) over DOTs and engineer depts.

I don't think that it is necessarily a power play.  I believe there are very good arguments on both sides of this issue.  My personal view is that disclosure is always good in the long run, but the short-term costs of disclosing information are often so enormous that I cannot agree there is a moral duty for individual roadgeeks to disclose sign locations or that there should be no censorship whatsoever of sign locations.  I just think that if there is to be censorship, it should be done according to guidelines agreed in advance and having broad consensual support--much the way classification works in governmental circles.  There should never be a question of gagging through arbitrary action.

Frankly, this whole thread makes me grateful that no-one on this forum has (yet) sought to publicize information which I personally would be uncomfortable seeing aired in public.  If (God forbid) such a thing ever happened, my approach would be to write privately to the person publicizing it, explain what I think are the likely negative repercussions of the disclosure, and ask if that person would consider editing his or her post to remove the information.