Anyone know exactly when Virginia changed shield designs?

[NE2]

The shield gallery claims the style with the state seal and large numbers is to 1924 specs (as opposed to the small-number style for SR 33), but the 1933 log still shows the old style, and all the shields are for numbers that existed after 1933. Does anyone have any better information on this change, as well as the change to a simple cutout and the change to a rectangle (on state installations)?

[Mapmikey]

I can now answer this question better after my recent trip to the Virginia State Library.

This mostly comes from an Article in the Dec 1952 issue of the Virginia Highway Bulletin.

Virginia did NOT post its primary routes in the 1918-22 system, despite what Auto Trail Maps say.

The marker for 1922-25 was a V (1 ft tall) with a small A inside, with the number above that and even with the top of the V.  The article says the numbers were only 4 inches tall.  They were painted on poles, trees, etc and apparently had no freestanding signs.  I have never seen a photo containing this marker, but Official maps and commercial maps both show the marker in their legends.

The spade shield with the tiny numbers, seal, and "State Highway Commission" words came out in 1925.  The article did not say when the larger numerals with smaller seal/words changed to "Department of Highways" came out but did say the numbers were twice as big.  Official maps had the shields in their legends up through 1933 and it appears the change occurred in 1931.

The simple cutout was introduced "eventually".  The 1950 Official resumed showing markers but in a cartoonish style that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  Here is a picture taken no later than Dec 1952 of VA 147 at the Huguenot Br (opened in 1947 IIRC) with standard cutout.  My guess is that simple cutouts showed up in the late 1940s.  I have not seen the bulletins from 1946-52 yet so maybe one of them has this info...the cover of the 1949 route log has just the simple cutout (1941 cover had the seal etc).

I don't know when US routes had the state name removed but I suspect it was around the same time.  I know 1 example made it to 1960.



Mapmikey

[agentsteel53]

I don't know when US routes had the state name removed but I suspect it was around the same time.  I know 1 example made it to 1960.

I have a photo of a 'simple' US 1 (just a number 1) from July, 1951.

do you know when VA dabbled with white squares instead of cutouts?

and, any idea what's going on here?

[hbelkins]

do you know when VA dabbled with white squares instead of cutouts?

At least one white square in Abingdon survived into the 1990s. There were a bunch the last time I was in downtown Roanoke, but with those being city installs, anything can go.

and, any idea what's going on here?

Never seen anything like that.

[Mapmikey]

The Roanoke ones (all mini signs) are all new installs replacing the cutouts that Michael Summa photographed in the 1990-91 timeframe.  Alexandria installed full-sized white border signs for its 400-402 routes that were born in 1981.  There might still be a 400 and/or a 401 left up...pretty sure the 402 ones are gone.

These white border signs are still up AFAIK:
VA 197 SB leaving Labrunum (saw this one 2 weeks ago...the other one on Labrunum itself is gone).
VA 8 on US 11 SB
VA 244 in an Arlington neighborhood
US 220 in a Covington neighborhood
The US 360 unisign assembly in Winterpock (the 36-156 assembly in Hopewell is gone)
SR 610 in Gloucester Co on SR 601 was still up last year
SR 610 shields in Big Stone Gap.
All other SR white border signs I was aware of are gone.

Norfolk and Va Beach had several sprinkled around town as late as 1993.  As did Williamsburg.

Mapmikey

[Mapmikey]

I don't know when US routes had the state name removed but I suspect it was around the same time.  I know 1 example made it to 1960.

I have a photo of a 'simple' US 1 (just a number 1) from July, 1951.

do you know when VA dabbled with white squares instead of cutouts?

and, any idea what's going on here?

Do you mean a simple US 1 cutout, or a 1 like the numbers in these two signs below:


current VA 338 WB Falls Church - white delivery truck is visible in the 1949 and 1951 historic aerials views, building may be gone by 1963; auto dealer was there by 1939 and this might be the oldest photo I've seen showing an SR marker

guessing this is from the 1940s - by RL Atwell, courtesy Wayne Henderson

The pic below appears in the Dec 1952 Virginia Hwy Bulletin, which shows a fuzzy black and white square US 58 shield leaving the interchange with Military Hwy.  This interchange was built in the early 40s.  My guess is that dabbling began when they stopped using the seal in the cutout.  I may be headed back to the state library this weekend and if so I will spend the entire day poring over decades worth of these bulletins to hopefully answer these and other kinds of questions.  As for the inverse black and white signs, that remains the only example I've seen and chalk it up to error on somebody's part.



Mapmikey

[Takumi]

The US 360 unisign assembly in Winterpock

Gone as of last month. It was there back in May or so, so it hasn't been gone long.

[Mapmikey]

Made it back to the state library today...

I found white border signs in both the March 1947 and June 1949 issues, as well as simple cutouts in the Nov 1949 issue.  SR markers in white border squares are in use by Nov 1952.

This is US 11 snowbound...er southbound just after SR 701 which is just north of today's I-64/81 near Greenville.  SR 701 was still VA 292 then.  This is also the earliest photo I've seen with the standard 3-destination sign with reassurance shield and is a different style than other black-and-white 3-destination signs I've seen from a little later.


This is US 58 westbound in Jonesville.  Note the word above the number is ROUTE, not West


This is Broad St westbound at 12th St, where US 360 used to turn south for the Hull St bridge until 1956.  Note that Broad St was still brick!  Also this confirms that the historic US 33-VA 33 transition was the US 250 east endpoint where US 60 left Broad. Also note that US 60-VA 147 Cary St is still brick today...


This is SR 711 from Nov 1952 not long after VA 44 was decommissioned.  This may be the earliest confirmed use of a directional banner in Virginia.  Also odd is that the use of the up arrow for Maidens.  Today up arrows mean less than a mile.  Maiden is a few miles further than US 522.



I also finally found a picture showing a 3-digit route shield from the 1928-32 system (VA 822 in Winchester) which doesn't really answer any questions in this thread...
Mapmikey

[Mapmikey]

Adding the items I posted above, Virginia may have briefly been using shield-less signs.  I found a second example that is not in an independent city and not even in the same VDOT district.  I had thought that the first pic below was an independent city special but with this second picture of VA 259's north end (this pic cannot be older than 1940 when 259 replaced 275 as the route number) seems to show a 259 junction sign with no shield.





Mapmikey